Fallout 4 is a good game. It's just incomplete.

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by CT Phipps, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Would you complain if Fallout games were made in to rail shooters, where the only direction you could move was forwards along a linear path?

    If so, why?, Fallout games only had a limited number of directions you could travel in anyway.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  2. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    My point being the dialogue isn't changed. Just the fact its voiced.
  3. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Previous Fallout games could have up to a dozen different responses to any given situation.

    Fallout 4 limits you to 4 at most, and sometimes goes even less(With options being repeated)

    Previous Fallout games let you use your character's skills to change the outcome of an interaction. In Fallout 4 it's charisma or nothing.

    Fallout 4 severely cripples the player's ability to interact with the world via dialogue. That's undeniable.

    Plus "The fact it's voiced" is also problematic in and of itself, even without all the other problems on top of that.
    • [Like] [Like] x 7
  4. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    There is a huge difference between often and always though. Fallout 4 always has a shitty barter option where you can haggle your way into some better caps, or occasionally talk your way out of a fight, but it skimped on any additional dialog options with quest conflicts since there is a total lack of skill checks. You can't even really be a bad guy when it comes to dealing with the various HALF BAKED raider factions. Something even Fallout 3 did a better job at. NPC barks and passable writing does not make up for how shallow the quests are. Honestly if they fixed the loot and quests (even without skills and voiced dialog) it would be salvageable. As it is it fills like a fucking spinoff.

    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  5. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    In this case, my problem with Fallout 4 is the voice actors feel like they sleptwalk through the entirety of their performance.

    Bioware did a much better job.

    And the writing was terrible because they always seemed to have only one response to whatever you said.

    "I feel fine."
    "I want to burn and rape this place."
    "I want to save you from being burned and raped."


    "Wow, that's a very interesting reaction."
  6. Kohno

    Kohno Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 30, 2009
    So what?

    It doesn't matter (here, with the point I was making) if there are this or that many responses or if some of them are generic or not. The point was about them being spoken out loud by someone who might not reflect at all the players vision (or desire) of his character, and who is never going to sound different.
  7. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    I think we're talking at opposite courses as I think the dialogue is the big issue versus how they say lines.
  8. Kohno

    Kohno Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 30, 2009
    Might be, but I did respond to a quote about why a voiced protagonist is bad. Not to one about the quality of the lines written for the protagonist.
  9. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    Point taken.

    I guess I like the voiced protagonist concept in theory but it's all so....banal.

    Everything is so dull and no anger or calm
  10. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    I guess there's not much to do but reiterate here, but...I think voicing the pc means that there's less room for interpretation, as the delivery (inflection, emphasis, etc) narrows down what a statement can mean. I'm not sure if this is a significant deficit though. Having your personality mostly dictated by a voice actor however is just yuck. As far as how voicing limits options, there were definitely fewer options but the real question is how much of the budget did it eat up? Who knows how many aspects of the game were weakened because of its cost. Budgets and resources are finite. Every addition means that something else is subtracted, during development or by exclusion beforehand.

    I assume voicing also makes things awkward for quest modders.
  11. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht I guess you're through, huh? Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    I said it before, but Fallout 4 has a lot of good ideas that were lost in either laziness or incompetence. Probably a combination of both mixed in with "Eh, our fans will gobble up everything we shit out, anyway".
    There is not a single aspect in Fallout 4 that couldn't have been improved with just a little bit more thought, but in the end Fallout 4 turned out to be as shallow as it gets.
  12. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I always said that Fallout is being used as a guinea-pig for The Elder Scrolls. They try new things in Fallout and then implement the ones that work on the next TES.

    I can't wait for the next TES game to see what comes out of it.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  13. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    You mean next edition of Skyrim or TES VI? If latter, I imagine something like this:
    "Chosen One! We're being attacked by Cliff Racers, let me mark their nest on your map!"

    "You've picked master lock, I think I'm in love with you!"

    "We've decided to raise Season Pass price by 15$, as the content in it took time and passion of our team (especially "Stools of Skyrim"). If you buy Season Pass now you can get it for the current price and additional 100 CC credits".
  14. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    I'm more afraid that instead of actual fucking content, we'll just get tools for making our own Dragons and Keep.
  15. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    A single stat doing everything. You become the Emperor and then the 10th Divine for no other reason other than to make the player feel special and important. You can become the leader of every faction, even enemy factions, the second you walk into their home bases.
  16. Snark567

    Snark567 First time out of the vault

    Apr 11, 2018
    Sometimes I wonder if most people at Bethesda even like video games, have they played games outside of the ones they made? There's just a lot of weird decisions that don't add up, as if nobody actually thought about what those decisions would do to the game.
    It goes back to their previous games not just Fallout 4, Fallout 3 was wrong in almost every way possible, an almost completely colorless art style that wasn't supported by the aging engine, 1 dimensional characters, a plot that didn't make a lick of sense and so on.

    The thing that made me really curious is how they handled the gun mechanics.
    Ok so they placed a crosshair at the center of the screen, but the guns didn't align properly so when you shot, the bullet would appear slighly to the side. So in order for you to actually shoot what you were aiming at they designed some kind of "aimbot" system which makes the bullet bend towards the crosshair so you can shoot accurately, but then they also made it so the bullet bends towards the enemy torso, so most of the time when you try to aim at a limb or the head you end up missing.
    What was the purpose of trying to make it easier for the player to shoot accurately when you're going to make the bullet miss on purpose? What's the point, does anyone at Bethesda think before doing something? They also made ridiculous bullet spread and made the damage output very small so that enemies would feel like bullet sponges. It's as if no one at Bethesda ever played a first person shooter game and were just told briefly what FPS games are like so they end up reinventing the wheel from their imagination. I can't think of another reason as to how they would make a game so centered towards combat have such crappy mechanics.

    So we forward to Fallout 4 and someone helped Bethesda make a functional shooting system, not an amazing shooting system, just a functional one. And it feels like they were so amazed at the decent combat mechanics that they just made a bunch of "go there, kill that" missions and forgot to finish the rest of the game.

    That kind of weirdness is in every part of their games not just the shooting, it's so confusing, are the developers lazy or are they just trying to reinvent the wheel? As if no one thought about trying out other games so they can take inspiration from them. Has anyone at Bethesda even played New Vegas? It's hard to imagine someone playing NV and then going to develop such an unimaginative and lifeless world and mediocre gameplay.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  17. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    I have the theory that a lot of game developer heads don't play games and that they wanted Fallout 4 to be a game where people just built stuff ala Minecraft and shot the place up forever.
  18. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015