Fallout 4 review - No Todds, no Masters

[CT Phipps]

Not a big fan of his downplaying the BOS too.

The BOS *SHOULD* be in the game because they were becoming a power house on the East Coast!

This is important lore!

 

[Ediros]

Kind of. In the sense that Fallout 4 is absolutely de facto the best first person shooter in the series. When it comes to the series having been RPG before (although straying away from that since 'Tictacs'), it is the absolute worst.

Yeah, outside of that it is one of the worst Fallout games, no arguing here.

Nothing mods can't improve, though. The only reason at least I ever came back in F4 a few times is more responsive and fluid combat. After the brand new recoil mod for FNV, Fallout 4 just lost it and flushed to the toilet itself. If one guy in a few months on a shitty engine came up with such improvement, bethesda loses it's only excuse for existance.
Because AI is still shit, I don't find it much of a loss the absent of enemy covering by nearby tree.

Huh, I didn't know about it. Could you give me a link?

Not a big fan of his downplaying the BOS too.

The BOS *SHOULD* be in the game because they were becoming a power house on the East Coast!

This is important lore!

Lore... yeah right, let me tell you this CT Phipps. Bos itself from 3 should be dead and forgotten. A bunch of white knights, who can somehow provide every recruit with a power armour and are protecting DC ruins where nobody lives. They could have introduced a new chapter or something, but they have to keep reusing the assets.

 

[Deleted member 93956]

Being completely right.

He's dead wrong about Fallout 4's soundtrack, though.

Thing is, of corse it's more fluid (still barely keeping up with other FPS) but it's as shallow as a puddle. Get gun, mod gun. Shoot.
Melee was better in 3/NV (hell, even Skyrim)

 

[0wing]

Huh, I didn't know about it. Could you give me a link?

Sure. Several, infact. http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/62153/? and http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/61973/?
They came out after Fallout 4, which is something worth noticing.

Works best with "highly recommended" mods.

 

[CT Phipps]

Lore... yeah right, let me tell you this CT Phipps. Bos itself from 3 should be dead and forgotten. A bunch of white knights, who can somehow provide every recruit with a power armour and are protecting DC ruins where nobody lives. They could have introduced a new chapter or something, but they have to keep reusing the assets.

Pretty much everything you've said is wrong. I've written essays about how wrong it is, not the least of which the whole white knight thing--which is bullshit since it caused half of the D.C. Chapter to desert. Of course, there's a problem where a lot of people refuse to engage with Fallout 3 and actually discuss things.

But short version.

1. The BoS isn't white knights because they were following their Elder who was a murderous racist and colonialist with delusions of grandeur. They were also losing badly and half of them deserted.

2. They couldn't afford to outfit new recruits since you only got to join as an adult when you'd proven yourself. Also, they presumably salvaged the power armor of the dead because they were losing badly. Plus, ithere was an entire basement full of Power Armor.

3. Are people forgetting Rivet City is ON THE COAST? Also, the BoS base is in the DC ruins? Also, that they're fighting the Super Mutants who are comming to attack them? Really?

Besides, I predicted they were setting up Elder Lyons chapter to turn evil years before Fallout 4 (I have the essay to prove it) and they did.

 

[Kohno]

The BoS in Fallout 3 was a Mickey Mouse malfunction in someone's head to begin with.

 

[CT Phipps]

The BoS in Fallout 3 was a Mickey Mouse malfunction in someone's head to begin with.

Yeah, god forbid they do something new or the BOS ever change or show any differences in 200 years.

It's not like the Midwestern...OH WAIT.

 

[Deleted member 93956]

Yeah, god forbid they do something new or the BOS ever change or show any differences in 200 years.

It's not like the Midwestern...OH WAIT.

Meh, one thing is to change and other to get brain damage

 

[Kohno]

Yeah, god forbid they do something new

If only they had. And that goes far beyond the forced recyling of the BoS.

 

[CT Phipps]

In any case, as a huge fan of the Capital Wasteland BOS, I was deeply underwhelmed with what was done with them. I wanted a lot more stories related to the characters and concepts of Fallout 3 since I loved that game. It brought a huge number of Fallout fans into the world and was beloved but it basically just crapped on them without much of an explanation.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

In any case, as a huge fan of the Capital Wasteland BOS, I was deeply underwhelmed with what was done with them. I wanted a lot more stories related to the characters and concepts of Fallout 3 since I loved that game. It brought a huge number of Fallout fans into the world and was beloved but it basically just crapped on them without much of an explanation.

Instead of the CW BOS, the Enclave and the Super Mutants there should have been entirely new factions that fit the location.

 

[CT Phipps]

Instead of the CW BOS, the Enclave and the Super Mutants there should have been entirely new factions that fit the location.

I think a lot of people missed Fallout 3 was meant to introduce the basic concepts of Fallout to new players who HADN'T PLAYED THE COMPUTER GAMES.

:GASP!:

It seems like a lot of Fallout hardcore fans didn't actually pick up on the fact it's meant to introduce things like the BoS, Enclave, and Super Mutants to a generation of fans who wouldn't have played the originals and never were.

It's why Fallout 3 is an abridged version of Fallout 1 and 2.

It's The Force Awakens, basically.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Seriously, you're getting a bit boring with that rhetoric, you have no clue if that was Bethesdas intention. Fallout was never about the BoS, Vaults or the Waterpurifier.

 

[Jogre]

Seriously, I agree with 90% but his problem with Dogmeat and the soundtrack make me think he's insane.

Maybe, he'd be far more sympathetic towards Dogmeat, if you weren't forced to adopt that dumb meme to progress the story.

It seems like a lot of Fallout hardcore fans didn't actually pick up on the fact it's meant to introduce things like the BoS, Enclave, and Super Mutants to a generation of fans who wouldn't have played the originals and never were.

Firstly, if they were trying to introduce those concepts to the player, then they were doing a fairly poor job of it.

They never introduced the Brotherhood to new players, they introduced goody-two shoes wasteland knights, with no real motives, nonsensical goals, and a complete disregard for what the Brotherhood was originally about.

They never introduced Supermutants, they introduced big, dumb orks who shoot everything on sight because reasons.

Secondly, if the point of Fallout 3 was to bring console players in to the lore of the franchise, then what's the point of rehashing the same old bullshit in Fallout 4?, There was absolutely no need to have Supermutants in Fallout 4, they contributed nothing to the story or universe, and the game could very easily exist without them.

 

[AlphaSlayerZX]

Firstly, if they were trying to introduce those concepts to the player, then they were doing a fairly poor job of it.

They never introduced the Brotherhood to new players, they introduced goody-two shoes wasteland knights, with no real motives, nonsensical goals, and a complete disregard for what the Brotherhood was originally about.

They never introduced Supermutants, they introduced big, dumb orks who shoot everything on sight because reasons.

Secondly, if the point of Fallout 3 was to bring console players in to the lore of the franchise, then what's the point of rehashing the same old bullshit in Fallout 4?, There was absolutely no need to have Supermutants in Fallout 4, they contributed nothing to the story or universe, and the game could very easily exist without them.

If anything, Fallout 3 was trying way too hard to please long time Fallout fans by putting unnecessary fan-service (Super Mutants, Enclave, BOS, Harold, caps, ect.) in the game.

 

[CT Phipps]

Maybe, he'd be far more sympathetic towards Dogmeat, if you weren't forced to adopt that dumb meme to progress the story.

Firstly, if they were trying to introduce those concepts to the player, then they were doing a fairly poor job of it.

They never introduced the Brotherhood to new players, they introduced goody-two shoes wasteland knights, with no real motives, nonsensical goals, and a complete disregard for what the Brotherhood was originally about.

You can't talk about the BOS in Fallout 3 without mentioning the Outcasts. They're the Brotherhood of Steel the same way the Lyons Chapter is and they're a bunch of arrogant isolationist assholes. Also, they have very clearly spelled out motivations and goals. As for the disregard for the Brotherhood and what it's about, that's kind of the point. Why the Outcasts left.

You also can't mention the BOS in Fallout 3 without mentioning Ashur--who shows the dark side of Lyons actions. The guy who tries to rebuild the world and ends up becoming a monster.

Also, you can't say white knights when Fallout 4 follows the plotline to make them villains!

They never introduced Supermutants, they introduced big, dumb orks who shoot everything on sight because reasons.

Yeah, you got me there. I admit, I love killing Super Mutants as they are my most singularly loathed faction in Fallout but that doesn't excuse their complete lack of characterization.

Secondly, if the point of Fallout 3 was to bring console players in to the lore of the franchise, then what's the point of rehashing the same old bullshit in Fallout 4?, There was absolutely no need to have Supermutants in Fallout 4, they contributed nothing to the story or universe, and the game could very easily exist without them.

No argument there. It also makes the Institute irredeemable in a game which is supposed to be about moral ambiguity.

All of Shaun's arguments the Institute isn't so bad go out the window with the Nazi experiments in creating Orcs and releasing them on the surface.

 

[Jogre]

Also, they have very clearly spelled out motivations and goals

"Lets focus all of our efforts on defending a radio station, instead of actually doing something useful...Because reasons."
"Lets totally abandon our mission to recover old world tech because...IDFK"

What are the Lyons Brotherhood actually trying to achieve?

As for the disregard for the Brotherhood and what it's about, that's kind of the point.

Had they made it a huge thing explaining the tenets of the new brotherhood, how they came to be, ect., I'd find it an interesting twist.

However, to me it just seems like they've scrapped everything interesting about the Brotherhood in return for a simplistic "We're helping people now" type of deal.

Also, you can't say white knights when Fallout 4 follows the plotline to make them villains!

So basically what you're saying is that I can't describe them as something in one game, because they are presented completely differently in another game?

 

[CT Phipps]

"Lets focus all of our efforts on defending a radio station, instead of actually doing something useful...Because reasons."
"Lets totally abandon our mission to recover old world tech because...IDFK"

1. They're defending Three Dog because he's a source of propaganda for the Brotherhood. He talks at length about how they're awesome and saviors of the wasteland.
2. They've done that because Elder Lyons fancies himself a hero. Also, he's a racist against nonhumans as he considers Super Mutants abominations to be destroyed. They murdered everyone in the Pitt but the (human) children and took them as conscripts.

What are the Lyons Brotherhood actually trying to achieve?

Flattering of Elder Lyons ego. Why half of his troopers abandoned him. In a more literal sense, Elder Lyons believed in the original interpretation of the Brotherhood of Steel's mission in that they were to protect humanity from the consequences of technology (FEV in this case) and uplift them to a higher state. It's the rest of the BOS which has drifted to become a gang of raiding tribals.

Had they made it a huge thing explaining the tenets of the new brotherhood, how they came to be, ect., I'd find it an interesting twist.

It's all spelled out if you bother to talk to Scribe Rothschilde and Casdin.

However, to me it just seems like they've scrapped everything interesting about the Brotherhood in return for a simplistic "We're helping people now" type of deal.

Did you miss the presence of the Outcasts and the fact they're losing the war?

So basically what you're saying is that I can't describe them as something in one game, because they are presented completely differently in another game?

NCR is clearly a religious desert nomad-esque culture of pacifists.

 

[Black Angel]

Except, the lore sucks balls in the East Coast. The only thing that was interesting was the Pitt, and how android/synths was handled in Fallout 3 and the impression I got from Zimmerman's talk about the Institute (which they blew in Fallout 4).

I kind of liked how the BoS in Fallout 2 was represented by some guys in mere Metal Armor. If Fallout 3 was handled properly, the BoS wouldn't really be wearing Power Armor, having declined into smaller faction like they were in Fallout 2, and by the time of Fallout 4 they should've completely gone, or at the very least became some kind of an urban, wasteland-y legend.

 

[CT Phipps]

I also have to say this guy's statement that Fallout 4 is Skyrim with guns offends me on two levels.

Fallout 4 was mindless fun with no real good storytelling ala Fallout 3 or New Vegas.

And he hates Skyrim, my all-time favorite video game.