Twelve not allowed angry mutants

Everyone is a player, you just have to see where you are standing and what is better for you. Like I said, after all the butt kissing my country did for the US and NATO, even after the Falklands, and where it has led to, to keep doing it would be simply dumb stupid, and I'm guessing Argentina is not the only country in that situation. Just saying.

I'm not saying Argentina should kiss ruskie ass, but at the very least side with them and China up to a certain point whenever they have something actually profitable to offer, and not just promises. Thus far China's investments (not loans) with real money and shared tech sure proved profitable, same with deals with Russia. So is Argentina growing away from the US and gaining allies in Russia and China? Yes. Tell you what, offer us a better deal and we'll do business with you too, this is not ideological, it's practical, ideology only got us trouble, like back when we were the biggest US/NATO supporters in Latin America.

So no, I'm not entering the who is more evil, or even who is the lesser evil, discussion. Everybody is a player, no way around it.

Am I the only one seeing the irony in this thread commenting on our political clucking getting turned into a political thread.

Wasn't I right, uh?
 
Not Tagz, Gonzalez made the thread

Apparently the other anti-U.S. circle jerk threads weren't enough.

Gonzalez,

Besides this threads creation, we can agree on some things.

I agree with you in the sense that Russian and Chinese deals benefit Argentina. Its actually nice that you can admit that your motivations are self-serving (mine too), where Crni continually plays the 'your a bigger asshole than the other guy'. To Crni, Putin isn't making a grab for power, hes just cleaning up our messes, what a good guy that Putin is.

But again, politics is a bitch. Will Putin and the Chinese be just as fair to you folks when they are at the top?
 
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I think he meant Tagz derailed it into this. God forbid you dare mention Ukraine is in a civil war without Tagz arguing it's a soviet invasion.

 
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Will Putin and the Chinese be just as fair to you folks when they are at the top?

Just as long as we don't make the same mistake we did with the US and go ideological about it. Then we will be able to see when the dealings no longer benefit us. Plus I don't think they will be "at the top" so soon to start being assholes to us all of a sudden. At most it will "level things out" for a while at least. The US and NATO, if they decay and the ruso-sino come "on top" of them, it will take generations for it to happen, if at all. Thus far the most powerful is the US-European alliance, and approaching Russia and China benefit us.

To keep being "west fanatics" at this point would be like a beaten woman staying in an unhealthy relationship until the husband finally beats her to death. I rather siding with Russia and China to make the stronger a bit weaker and at the same time try to keep a more independent "third position".
 
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That fact that Russia created a NATO copy called the fucking CSTO???? But thats ok because Putin claims its, 'self-defense'.

The CSTO is not and was not meant to be the Warsaw Pact. The states in it are also quite weak to be a counterpart for the NATO. Well, maybe Russia isn't, but the rest?
 
How is CSTO, not a counter-version of NATO?

I can link it later as I am on mobile but google it and wikipedia, among other sources, explicitly say as much. Any nation that wishes to join may not be a member of a different alliance. Any attack on one member is an attack on all members

Strength doesn't matter, INTENT, matters. Putin wants to be equal to NATO and the west has bled too much to allow that to happen.
 
How is CSTO, not a counter-version of NATO?

I can link it later as I am on mobile but google it and wikipedia, among other sources, explicitly say as much. Any nation that wishes to join may not be a member of a different alliance. Any attack on one member is an attack on all members

Strength doesn't matter, INTENT, matters. Putin wants to be equal to NATO and the west has bled too much to allow that to happen.

Well, intent, sure. I agree.
 
How is CSTO, not a counter-version of NATO?

I can link it later as I am on mobile but google it and wikipedia, among other sources, explicitly say as much. Any nation that wishes to join may not be a member of a different alliance. Any attack on one member is an attack on all members

Strength doesn't matter, INTENT, matters. Putin wants to be equal to NATO and the west has bled too much to allow that to happen.

The CSTO... will die. As will their friends. Good, you can feel their anger. They think NATO is defenseless. They take their weapon. Strike NATO down with all of their hatred and their journey towards the dark side will be complete!

Everything that has transpired has done so according to NATOs design. Their friends, up there on the sanctuary moon, are walking into a trap, as is their Rebel fleet. It was *NATO* who allowed the CSTO to know the location of the shield generator. It is quite safe from their pitiful little band. An entire legion of my best troops awaits them. Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when their friends arrive.



Never forget, what ever NATO does, it's always for the greater good.

What ever you accuse the CSTO, Russia and/or China I see today done by the NATO, on an almost daily basis. The numbers and incidents speak for it self in my opinion. By the time NATO was bombing Libya in March, 2011, it was executing operations in the Mediterranean, the Atlantic, Arctic and Indian oceans, the Gulf of Aden and Red seas, as well as in nations on four continents which included Sudan, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the former Yugoslavia. Their actions has lead them as well to east Asia and the borders of the Chinese.

The world is not made like in a Bond movie though full of villains out there only to threaten world piece, where we are the good guys and everything is done to save us. The NATO and this counts for the US just as much as for western Europe, are breaking international laws and bombing nations when ever it suits them all in the name of democracy, humanitarian aid and peace when the reality is that they are securing resources. The reality however, when you look at the nations in question, is very grim. See Kosovo and what it is today, see most of the Balkan states clinging on the prospect of becoming European nations while their populations suffer from poverty. See Lybia which is in chaos, the Iraq, Syria. And we are surprised that nations like China, Russia, Iran and many more are starting to feel threatened? That they might not get the idea that confrontation is the only answer, forming their own alliances? The U.S. and NATO have literally authorized themselves to go to war anywhere in the world. The NATO's strategic concept also asserts the legitimacy of whatever actions NATO members take to secure energy sources. The NATO does not exist in a vacuum. The decisions, plans and strategies they envision have a real effect on the rest of the world.

The west has bleed to much ... my ass. What or who has bleed here in the US, Germany, France or Britain for the last 30 years? Over those petty resource wars that have been started in the name of Chevron, Shell, Pepsi and all the others? Have our cities been bombed? Our children poisened with thousands of uranium shells or mines? Want to see what NATO peace means? What it "means" to bleed for the NATO? Go to Kosovo. Talk with the people there. The former allies of the NATO during the bombing. They enjoy their freedom so much that all they want is to esacpe the povertiy and moving to Germany where Germany is doing nothing more than sending them back home in to their destroyed homes without water or electricity. And someone want's to talk about the soldiers dieing in Afghanistan or Iraq? Why don't we ask the civilians and soldiers there? How many Irakis have died? How many Afghan civilians? Look at the numbers of hospitals and villages which have been accidently bombed.

The NATO is in my eyes not better than China or Russia.
 
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Oh goody, another Mordor jab.

Man, we haven't brought about the utopia yet. Super Putin to save the day.
 
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Yea, Putin had bigger plans, plans unfolding now. Yugoslav wars, Russia don't give a fuck. Yup, we were dicks during the cold war. Shame on us, we shoulda left ol Slobodan alone. Yay for non-intervention.
 
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explain that to the people here.
highway-of-death_799626.jpg

Wait. You can't.

The offensive action for which Highway 80 is infamous became controversial with some commentators alleging disproportionate use of force, saying that the Iraqi forces were retreating from Kuwait in compliance with the original UN Resolution 660 of August 2, 1990; and the column allegedly included Kuwaiti hostages[SUP][8][/SUP] and civilian refugees. The alleged refugees included women and children family members of pro-Iraqi, PLO-aligned Palestinian militants and Kuwaiti collaborators who had fled shortly before the returning Kuwaiti authorities pressured nearly 200,000 Palestinians to leave Kuwait. Activist and former United States Attorney General Ramsey Clark alleged that these attacks violated the Third Geneva Convention, Common Article 3, which outlaws the killing of soldiers who "are out of combat."[SUP][9][/SUP] Clark included it in his 1991 report WAR CRIMES: A Report on United States War Crimes Against Iraq to the Commission of Inquiry for the International War Crimes Tribunal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Death

Before we declare them all as supporters of an evil system, here a comment:

You know 80% of the Iraqi military at this time were 18 year olds forced into the army or be executed. It wasn't an option to go invade Kuwait, you were either to join the Military or be secretly executed. My uncle, an Iraqi soldier at the time was in the Highway of Death he was one of the survivors. None of them wanted to fight, my father was also forced into the military. If you escaped or deserted and they never caught you, they would kill your family. You didn't fight in an invasion or battle, you would be executed. All of these men that were killed were all young men, happy to return to Iraq, probably even being discharged and seeing there family. Yet you are all happy about this slaughter? They were retreating, it may seem that they are all evil men because they were soldiers of Saddam, but most of the crimes that happened in Kuwait were made up and never spoken of after being reported. The incident of Iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of the incubators and killing them was all just a propaganda trait. I'm not denying the destruction of Kuwait and murder that happened, but never the less. Rape, murder of children never happened. It was all just artillery and tanks firing at houses and buildings and the soldiers securing the targets. They were told that they have to retreat by the US military, so they did. Then bombing them as they retreat. Some of the victims of the air strikes weren't even soldiers. There's civilians vehicles in the incident, all of them killed.
 
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Yup, we have our fuckups.

Sorry Taiwan, we screwed up in Iraq so we are abandoning you now. Enjoy the CPC explosion show. Shit, we might as well hide our heads in the sand and abandon all of our allies.

AGAIN, yay for non-intervention.
 
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Don't get me wrong though! I don't think that you're wrong, just born in the wrong century. I am pretty sure you would have done extremly well between the 1920s and 1950s.
 
You know 80% of the Iraqi military at this time were 18 year olds forced into the army or be executed. It wasn't an option to go invade Kuwait, you were either to join the Military or be secretly executed. My uncle, an Iraqi soldier at the time was in the Highway of Death he was one of the survivors. None of them wanted to fight, my father was also forced into the military. If you escaped or deserted and they never caught you, they would kill your family. You didn't fight in an invasion or battle, you would be executed. All of these men that were killed were all young men, happy to return to Iraq, probably even being discharged and seeing there family. Yet you are all happy about this slaughter? They were retreating, it may seem that they are all evil men because they were soldiers of Saddam, but most of the crimes that happened in Kuwait were made up and never spoken of after being reported. The incident of Iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of the incubators and killing them was all just a propaganda trait. I'm not denying the destruction of Kuwait and murder that happened, but never the less. Rape, murder of children never happened. It was all just artillery and tanks firing at houses and buildings and the soldiers securing the targets. They were told that they have to retreat by the US military, so they did. Then bombing them as they retreat. Some of the victims of the air strikes weren't even soldiers. There's civilians vehicles in the incident, all of them killed.

It is far too typical modernly to shrug off "combatant deaths" as long as civilians are spared. I've thought about the Iraq war in particular, and even more particular ^that scenario. We're talking a shitload of conscripts, just... dudes... and how did they react, as soldiers, as an army, as an antagonist? They turned and fled, like conscripts do...

DarpCorp, my god, do the rest of the world really need to spell it out to you: Stop policing the world! Yes, wars happen - wars happen with and without America's help. Atrocities happen with or without America's help, but this is absurd - America must inflict war and atrocity to prevent war and atrocity! No, stop doing that, and stop deluding yourself to believe that all your actions are universally celebrated when they are not. Try to be more like Brazil or something, stand over there, and just be quiet.

And if you go "you'd all be speaking German by now"... to be honest, it's becoming increasingly preferable to the entire planet being America'd to death.
 
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