1984 light?

[PainlessDocM]

I have nothing to hide and I have nothing that would really affect me or anyone else if someone knew even every single detail about my personal life.

Well what if you go to a job interview for a job you really want and are qualified for. The boss tells you they already hired someone else but in reality he had a look at some info he could easily find online and decided not to hire you because you criticized his political party of choice years ago. (or simply because he hates monkeys )

 

[Surf Solar]

Well what if you go to a job interview for a job you really want and are qualified for. The boss tells you they already hired someone else but in reality he had a look at some info he could easily find online and decided not to hire you because you criticized his political party of choice years ago.

If the job giver cares so much for such a trivial detail, or has a problem with that party etc then it wasn't probably the best job to begin with.

Yeah, right.

 

[Lexx]

Now imagine every jobgiver is doing it, because it became common praxis.

 

[PainlessDocM]

Now imagine every jobgiver is doing it, because it became common praxis.

Pretty much, I guess what I was trying to say is that not that long ago there was more or less healthy (imo) divide between ones personal and professional life. Of course "trivial details" like political preference shouldn't play a role in whether or not one gets hired or not but in reality things are unfortunately very different.

I am just extremly worried about the opinion and attitude of todays generation where Facebook and other social networks seem to make it "modern" and "good" for big companies like game publishers and other corporations or even the state to collect all kind of informations about people. Regardless if those informations are usefull or not. Privacy should be a concern for us all. but it seems like people simply stoped to "care". Only because we have nothing to hide does not mean its "good".

I agree with this 100%

Image that a decade ago some whistleblower provided the media with documents showing the minute details your government or a company collected on you. Not just your address and schools but everything from the colour of your eyes to your favourite kind of pasta and your drinking, gaming, surfing habits etc. I image this would have unleashed a huge outcry from the public. Today it's not the government that is doing this but some huge American company (among others ofc) and it's rarely met with criticism but with apathy and praise.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Image that a decade ago some whistleblower provided the media with documents showing the minute details your government or a company collected on you. Not just your address and schools but everything from the colour of your eyes to your favourite kind of pasta and your drinking, gaming, surfing habits etc. I image this would have unleashed a huge outcry from the public. Today it's not the government that is doing this but some huge American company (among others ofc) and it's rarely met with criticism but with apathy and praise.

Exactly. And that is the main issue of the whole affair.

I can not blame companies as much like the people (maybe my self included but I refuse to use Facebook and I dont support companies like EA or Ubisoft).

If the people would avoid their products or actually feel unwell with places like Facebook for example for collecting their informations I doubt it would happen as much as it does now.

Not to mention there have been situations here in Germany where a company had serious issues because they spied on their workers on mass. People feelt offended and teh company had to face some trials. I am asking my self if we will at some point have situations where this becomes "normal" though and no one feels the need for trials anymore.

If the job giver cares so much for such a trivial detail, or has a problem with that party etc then it wasn't probably the best job to begin with.

We well talk again about it if it is a job you might have liked and needed because you have to ask your self how to fill the fridge a few days later. You will never get in such a situation ? Oh boy ... talking about being "naive". Life is so long. And one never knows what might happen in a few years. Sickness. Accidents. Or just your wife which cheated you for your money.

The "the job probably was not for me anyway" sounds nice. But that is not the reality. No place is perfect.

But by the way that is not even the point.

I get the feeling that many of you here which simply decided "not" to care either don't understand it or cant follow the logic (without any offense). All those parts that Lexx and others mentioned so far are just examples. It is about the principle.

The core of it is "informations" and "abuse". It has not to be the job, your political orientation or how many times a day you masturbate. It is about to "care" and be "active" with your personal informations. Like how people never go voting and not feeling interested about politics or their "leaders" but on the other side complain how everything get worse each year.

We all are very used to life in a democracy where we have certain rights but we also have responsibilities. People forget that way to easily. The "rights" we have eventually are not granted. They are a privilege. For many people those are a luxury.

 

[Ohaimerk]

Well what if you go to a job interview for a job you really want and are qualified for. The boss tells you they already hired someone else but in reality he had a look at some info he could easily find online and decided not to hire you because you criticized his political party of choice years ago. (or simply because he hates monkeys )

Even if you think that this is bullshit and will never happen-- why are you so sure about this? What if it will happen? What if someone doesn't like you and uses the technic against you? How about police abuse, etc? That's pretty much a possibility and happened already

It's already happening. I have a criminal record for one crime I did six years ago as a teenager (a 'crime' that most kids that age commit, I was unlucky enough to get caught) and it's still affecting me to this day. I've had walmart tell me that they only hire the best of the best and that people with felonies are usually thieves and assholes to customers. I've lost my right to vote and be politically active. If I'm ever pulled over, or in a car when its pulled over, the cops have every right to search the car and me and who I'm with, and it's happened every time. As a "felon" I'm closer to an orwellian nightmare than most of you as my every move is recorded and accessible by employers and law enforcement agencies.

Even then, I don't care. Some of the employers are dickheads about it but a good majority of them have a "Well I was a dumbass kid once sorry you got caught" attitude and ignore it. Most cops are really nice about it and just go through the motions because it's their responsibility.

My point is, even with my entire past accessible, 99% of the people who see it don't care. Even with all my info out there it's irrelevant for the most part.

 

[Token-not-found]

Well what if you go to a job interview for a job you really want and are qualified for. The boss tells you they already hired someone else but in reality he had a look at some info he could easily find online and decided not to hire you because you criticized his political party of choice years ago. (or simply because he hates monkeys )

Even if you think that this is bullshit and will never happen-- why are you so sure about this? What if it will happen? What if someone doesn't like you and uses the technic against you? How about police abuse, etc? That's pretty much a possibility and happened already

It's already happening. I have a criminal record for one crime I did six years ago as a teenager (a 'crime' that most kids that age commit, I was unlucky enough to get caught) and it's still affecting me to this day. I've had walmart tell me that they only hire the best of the best and that people with felonies are usually thieves and assholes to customers. I've lost my right to vote and be politically active. If I'm ever pulled over, or in a car when its pulled over, the cops have every right to search the car and me and who I'm with, and it's happened every time. As a "felon" I'm closer to an orwellian nightmare than most of you as my every move is recorded and accessible by employers and law enforcement agencies.

Even then, I don't care. Some of the employers are dickheads about it but a good majority of them have a "Well I was a dumbass kid once sorry you got caught" attitude and ignore it. Most cops are really nice about it and just go through the motions because it's their responsibility.

My point is, even with my entire past accessible, 99% of the people who see it don't care. Even with all my info out there it's irrelevant for the most part.

You can't use a single case to make generalizations.

Things like political orientation (specially if it's extreme) or introvertness could pose a greater impediment than a petty crime in teenage years to most jobs.

Freedom isn't really freedom when you know that anything you do or say that is deviant from the established culture can make you unemployable. From what i know it's frequent practice these days to look up your potential employee on the internet.

Who would give a (i'm speaking of common jobs) job to an introvert or an anarchist or a ultranationalist?

That's like a christian saying: hey man you're free, but if you do anything that deviates from our norm - you are going to hell.

It's alot harder for most people to feel free knowing that any deviation can mean the end for them.

Restrictions can help combat discrimination.

And yeah you can listen to the white middle class liberal yap and think discrimination is no longer there- but it is , maybe not for the black man or the gay today- but for others.

It's in our nature- discrimination today just changed/concentrated focus from the minorities (it's not acceptable anymore) to the dissidents or people who are not normal.

The protection we recieve in the form of privacy - enables us to really be free and survive at the same time.

It's in your best interest.

 

[Ohaimerk]

Who would give a (i'm speaking of common jobs) job to an introvert or an anarchist or a ultranationalist?

If you're smart about it and practice your beliefs in a manner fitting a stable human then it's a non-issue. But you can't go around freely shouting anarchist or nazi or extremist things all the time and then expect to be looked at in the same light as people who don't, it's like a kid screaming and throwing tantrums all the time and later wondering why he has to go to time out when all the other kids get a cookie during snack time.

It's a common sense thing: hey man you're free, but if you shout "down with the government they're all out to get us" all the time you're going to be treated differently

You can't use a single case to make generalizations.

Ok let me give you the example of jews...

 

[Token-not-found]

Who would give a (i'm speaking of common jobs) job to an introvert or an anarchist or a ultranationalist?

If you're smart about it then it's a non-issue. But you can't go around freely shouting anarchist or nazi or extremist things and then expect to be looked at in the same light as people who don't.

It's like a common sense thing: hey man you're free, but if you shout "down with the government they're all out to get us" all the time you're going to be treated differently

You can't use a single case to make generalizations.

Ok let me give you the example of jews: first they made them wear identifiers , then they confiscated their money , then they put em in the ghettos , then they made them labor , then they killed them.

Of course that is common sense- someone doing that assumes the consequences .

but i was not talking about that- i was talking about people who express their views on blogs, forums, etc.

You should be able to do that freely and to be able to do that freely you need protection from the system- in the form of privacy.

If you have no protection then you are indirectly coerced into silence by fear of being unemployable for example.

And about the jews: that's really an example of a phenomenon not a generalization arised from a singular experience.

Also i edited my previous post.

 

[UniversalWolf]

It doesn't have to be a vast government conspiracy to come up with nefarious uses for all these cameras. Suppose an individual cop wants leverage on someone. Maybe his wife is having an affair, or maybe he wants to blackmail someone for some reason. A dirty cop could use all these cameras to keep a visual record of that individual's movements. Maybe he uses that record for his own purposes, or maybe he sells it to someone else.

You might not have anything to hide from The State, but do you have anything to hide from anyone?

Of all the changes society has gone through in the past 30 years, the increase of mass paranoia is one of the worst, and having cameras everywhere contributes to that. Really a sad development.

 

[Tagaziel]

I personally don't care what they know about me, but I oppose it on principle. I don't think a few extra cameras is going to lead to an orwellian dystopia, but it's still the start of a slippery slope. If cameras are okay, then why not microphones? If microphones why not mandatory gps locaters for everyone? It's not an issue itself, but it sets a bad precedent.

Slippery slope is a fallacious argument. Also, there's a giant chasm between mandatory GPS locators and cameras with microphones.

People seem to forget that a public space is just that: a public space. If you really don't want to divulge too much information about yourself, then maintain a healthy mental discipline: refrain from publishing information that may be used against you, use safe e-mails for communication instead of Facebook etc.

And Universal Wolf, you do realize that urban monitoring centers aren't a walk-in office where everyone can check the cameras, right?

 

[Token-not-found]

If you really don't want to divulge too much information about yourself, then maintain a healthy mental discipline: refrain from publishing information that may be used against you, use safe e-mails for communication instead of Facebook etc.

How does one tell apart a member of society in a totalitarian state and an average citizen in the western world, by those instructions?

My folks actually lived in a totalitarian state and that was the norm - be honest only when sure no one can listen, always be honest in hiding.

Speaking out in the open, speaking freely could get you killed or at least imprisoned.

From your quote i get the mental image of a member of the resistance in a totalitarian state, not a contemporary free western man.

 

[Sabirah]

I don't have any problem with it. If someone was assaulted or molested and one of the cameras caught it it could save lives. I'd rather be safe and have a little less privacy than get
raped and let the culprit walk.

You can't use a single case to make generalizations.

Ok let me give you the example of jews...

[/quote]

I think this guy might be a skinhead

 

[UniversalWolf]

Overall life was better before there were cameras everywhere. Just my opinion as a guy who remembers what things used to be like.

 

[Hassknecht]

I think this guy might be a skinhead

Just for your information, skinheads are not racist per se.
The original skinheads were a proletarian youth movement and inherently anti-racist.
The neonazi movement just stole their fashion.

 

[mobucks]

Haha cameras scare you? Do you know we have airplanes that are capable of logging your car/likeness and submitted to a database, where with the click of a button you can be tracked all day and night? These planes are in the air 24/7 above conflict countries like afghanistan. The latest in thermal imaging/radar/hi-def cameras give an individual signiture able to be logged and pulled up on a screen in some bunker in the USA, ready to send drones and hellfires on any enemy. And once the next terrorism attack happens in the USA, you can bet your ass they will be flying over your head day and night, that is, if they arent doing that already.

Anyway, the sheeple will do what they want without thinking of the implications. If it ends up biting them in the ass, thats their fault. Proper internet use in regards to personal information existed way before facebook came out. I have a few friends on facebook that if you looked up their name, you would get no results. They use a pseudonym.

 

[Ilosar]

That's why I don't post anything really personal on Facebook. Too many horror stories of employers checking it, seeing someone did this or likes that, and going ''nah'', one of my friends was in Human resources and worked with a guy who did this. My facebook is used to message people and organize groups, and I make sure no compromising photos of me get aired (can't control every move at parties, ye know ). Cameras in public spaces are meh, but Facebook is much more of an invasion of privacy if you let it.

 

[Sub-Human]

Facebook is certainly a good way to ruin your own life.

Just imagine how much time people spend on it.

 

[Sabirah]

Anyway, the sheeple will do what they want without thinking of the implications. If it ends up biting them in the ass, thats their fault. Proper internet use in regards to personal information existed way before facebook came out. I have a few friends on facebook that if you looked up their name, you would get no results. They use a pseudonym.

Please never use that word again. It brings to mind the wrong connotations and makes you sound like an arrogant firang.

I think this guy might be a skinhead

Just for your information, skinheads are not racist per se.
The original skinheads were a proletarian youth movement and inherently anti-racist.
The neonazi movement just stole their fashion.

But all skinhead music is all about the "opressed white minority" that doesn't exist and never will.

 

[Mettle]

An interesting paper about what some people here keep saying called ""I've got nothing to hide" and other misunderstandings of privacy".

Today all of us are filmed by an ever increasing number of cameras in public places, many of us happily feed personal data into "social networks", our homes are visible in high detail on Google Street view, our telephones and gps make it possible to locate us every moment of the day.

It seems strange to me that (a lot of) people don't seem to care about privacy (anymore?) and even applaud this evolution.
I wonder when and why this began and whether the public will continue to support this.

Personally I don't really mind the government using cameras in places where a lot of crimes take place (not sure if this is actually efficient) but I find it very strange to see friends and family sharing everything from birth to the present day with companies like Facebook.

Yesterday Google Street view became available in my country, to my surprise (well not really) I have to ask Google to blur my house if I don't want it on public display. Shouldn't this be the other way around?

I'm wondering what other NMA users think about this phenomenon.

I myself don't much like this movement towards even more surveillance, it assumes that everyone is guilty until proven otherwise in my mind. Wether it's speedtraps or just plain video surveillance I'm against it, the only time I can accept videosurveillance is in criminal cases when they are brought before a court. And that has to come with proof of suspicion or however you phrase it.

What people themselves are choosing to divulge to the public and corporations I don't really care about, aslong as they know the consequences of actually doing it. The social networks are just that ofcourse, social networks, and peer pressure alone will get people to divulge more information about themselves than they intended from the beginning. I'll second that worry about how easilly people are willing to share information about themselves on the internet, many of my friends and family do it despite my efforts to try and convince them of keeping it to themselves.

I'd agree about Google maps aswell, you should opt-in to show your house and not the other way around.

But all skinhead music is all about the "opressed white minority" that doesn't exist and never will.

No it's not, you're thinking of white power skinheads, they can basically be found all over the political spectrum. Check Wikipedia for some links to bands.

However, none of the bands associated with the original Oi! scene promoted racism in their lyrics. Some Oi! bands, such as Angelic Upstarts, The Burial, and The Oppressed were associated with left wing politics and anti-racism.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead

And wiki/oi!