1984 light?

Tagaziel said:
Didn't notice your reply.

The point of counter-terrorist intelligence is to prevent you from even getting your hands on the bomb and causing harm, because it's extremely hard to stop a terrorist attack already in progress. I'm not saying it's impossible, but stopping a person who has a bomb in his backpack and a detonator in hand is quite difficult.
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Hmm yes counter inteligence I have no trouble with. If they know their target.

But patroling the train stations feels more like a rather uncontroled "panic" reaction to make people feel more safe regardless that they are not. It seems just wasting money as I have the feeling the officers patroling the stations with the Machine Pistols could have done something more usefull. But that is only me.

I dont have problems with inteligence services in general. As long they are bound by our constiution of course.
 
Crni Vuk said:
I dont have problems with inteligence services in general. As long they are bound by our constiution of course.
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Wow...

I may have you confused, but do you live in eastern europe?
 
no why ? Maybe a mistake. But I mean a counter inteligence is a needed institution. We have the BND in Germany and I think they do a good job.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Hmm yes counter inteligence I have no trouble with. If they know their target.

But patroling the train stations feels more like a rather uncontroled "panic" reaction to make people feel more safe regardless that they are not. It seems just wasting money as I have the feeling the officers patroling the stations with the Machine Pistols could have done something more usefull. But that is only me.

I dont have problems with inteligence services in general. As long they are bound by our constiution of course.
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It's a show of force to make the public relax, even a little bit. They could be doing something more useful, sure, but sometimes, to prevent hysteria and panic, you need to deploy armed policemen just to show that you're doing *something*.

Succesful intelligence/counterintelligence operations almost always remain unnoticed and classified. This rule of thumb is also why I dislike the "bash the service" attitude exhibited by some people. Sure, there are a number of idiots in all branches of the government, uniformed services etc. Doesn't disqualify the work competent people do.
 
exactly that would be like removing all police forces because some are corrupt.

I am not naive. I don't like "counter inteligence" or the whole system behind it. But it is needed one way or another. Though I guess one should try to explain that to the "all power to anonymus!" or something. I know it. One of my friends is a pro-hacker kind of guy while I try to remain neutral on the subject. I recognize that some did great work (like Wikileaks ... sometimes) while others are simply internet-punks. But all of them are definitely NOT robbin hood or something. With their damage and "information" stealing they cause more harm then good in the end.

Anyway a state has to protect its citizens. I am not saying we should give up "freedom" for it. But you cant denny there there are criminal organizations. And the counter intelligence is not only working because of foreign nations. They do help as well in locating and fighting real criminal organizations which are dealing with drugs, weapons and who knows what else.

I mean things are very very rarely only "black" or "white".
 
Crni Vuk said:
I mean things are very very rarely only "black" or "white".
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Exactly. As I said, modern societies strive to strike a balance between personal liberty and national security needs. Freedom of speech and the right to privacy are very basic rights, but they cannot be treated as an absolute: intelligence services and uniformed services, such as the Police, need to have legal tools to circumvent these rights in cases where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of an individual.

It's also a question of having intelligent, competent people handle surveillance, to maintain confidentiality and minimize the risk of causing damage to innocent people.

If you want an example of how NOT to do intelligence, google Antoni Macierewicz, professional nutcase, cinspiracy theorist and high profile right wing politician. His report on the Military Information Services effectively put several intelligence operatives in Poland in extreme danger, by divulging their personal information and detailing operations they participated in. And it was made PUBLIC.
 
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