5 million copies of Fallout: New Vegas shipped says Bethesda

[Brother None]

I've always wondered just how much money companies make from games. $300m from 5m units would mean that they make $60m per million copies sold, which doesn't seem realistic.

This confusion seems to happen every time a publisher makes this kind of press release. To specify, looking at the press release, it is:
5 million copies shipped, not sold-through
Which seems "roughly calculated" (i.e. just multiply it by 60) to represent retail sale value, not publisher value. They offered the same guesstimate for Fallout 3's shipping numbers (see below), it's a meaningless but impressive claim.

Dork Mage's guesstimate is an overestimate too. You don't just pay the retailer, distributor and packaging overhead, you also pay a percentage to the console you're publishing on. A 20 dollar per copy return is, last time I heard, pretty good. But these things vary more than you'd think.

How much Obsidian makes on it is anyone's guess. Depends on their deal. There's no doubt they get bonuses when certain sales numbers are hit, but what this is exactly, who knows. Maybe Bethesda was smart enough to build a high sales target into the contract.

How was Fallout 3 going at this time after release?

Fallout 3 shipped 4.7 million in a week.

 

[Dork Mage]

Dork Mage's guesstimate is an overestimate too. You don't just pay the retailer, distributor and packaging overhead, you also pay a percentage to the console you're publishing on. A 20 dollar per copy return is, last time I heard, pretty good. But these things vary more than you'd think.

My bad... I don't buy console games so I don't think about the added cost. The console companies get $10 per copy, not a percentage.

I can't find the number, but I recall advertising for F3 to be obscene at more like $60m. So BethSoft is making considerably more from FNV than from F3.

 

[Faceless Stranger]

Jeezus... Vlatko Andonov? Man in charge of Bethesda sounds like a russian gangster...

 

[zkylon]

ZeniMax is Bethesda's owner, so any money that goes into Beth goes into Zeni.

I'd imagine Bethesda has money of their own, right? Like Infinity Ward with Activision or something.

 

[DemonNick]

ZeniMax is Bethesda's owner, so any money that goes into Beth goes into Zeni.

I'd imagine Bethesda has money of their own, right? Like Infinity Ward with Activision or something.

It's not necessarily the same kind of relationship as Infinity Ward/Activision. Zenimax was founded after Bethesda by Beth's owners. Depending on who you talk to, it was originally either a shady tax dodge or a means of reorganizing their assets to allow for expansion and diversification.

Either way, they're a lot more closely tied than most developer-publisher relationships.

 

[maximaz]

I've always wondered just how much money companies make from games. $300m from 5m units would mean that they make $60m per million copies sold, which doesn't seem realistic.

This confusion seems to happen every time a publisher makes this kind of press release. To specify, looking at the press release, it is:
5 million copies shipped, not sold-through
Which seems "roughly calculated" (i.e. just multiply it by 60) to represent retail sale value, not publisher value. They offered the same guesstimate for Fallout 3's shipping numbers (see below), it's a meaningless but impressive claim.

Dork Mage's guesstimate is an overestimate too. You don't just pay the retailer, distributor and packaging overhead, you also pay a percentage to the console you're publishing on. A 20 dollar per copy return is, last time I heard, pretty good. But these things vary more than you'd think.

How much Obsidian makes on it is anyone's guess. Depends on their deal. There's no doubt they get bonuses when certain sales numbers are hit, but what this is exactly, who knows. Maybe Bethesda was smart enough to build a high sales target into the contract.

So game companies make a third of the retail price for a console copy, on average. That seems pretty shitty. They only make about 20 mill on a million copies sold. As far as entertainment products go (movies, music, etc.), games seem to bring the least money. No wonder, the publishers constantly look for ways to rip people off.

 

[Ausir]

ZeniMax is Bethesda's owner, so any money that goes into Beth goes into Zeni.

I'd imagine Bethesda has money of their own, right? Like Infinity Ward with Activision or something.

It has its own budget, but every penny is still ultimately owned by ZeniMax.

 

[Erny]

So game companies make a third of the retail price for a console copy, on average. That seems pretty shitty. They only make about 20 mill on a million copies sold.

All depends on how much it cost to make. It can be easily more profitable than movies.

Also Im guessing FO4 is being made by Bethesda now. And Obsidian will be making DLCs for New Vegas.

 

[aenemic]

As far as entertainment products go (movies, music, etc.), games seem to bring the least money. No wonder, the publishers constantly look for ways to rip people off.

um, since when does an artist get even close to 20 dollars for every album sold? music is by a long shot the industry that brings the least money back to the creator.

 

[Ureshi]

What's that you say!? Fallout 4 built on Obsidian's new Onyx engine in a raised 3d perspective with turn based combat!? SOLD!!

And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss ♪
Ah sweetheart, I ask no more than this ♪
A kiss to build a dream on ♪

 

[Makagulfazel]

So game companies make a third of the retail price for a console copy, on average. That seems pretty shitty

I tried to find an article I read with Trent Reznor where he explained that he received less than a dollar per CD sale when he received his first contract. Publishers seem to be inefficient in general. I understand the service they provide, but judging by several artists actions("Steal this album" "Welcome to the Machine") I tend to think they believe publishers are run by greedy assholes, too.
Then again, if you don't have the beginning capital, where do you begin? A huge cycle of fuck-all.

 

[tekhedd]

You know, I wouldn't mind a iPhone/iPad/Something created by Obsidian that was a turn based game similar to the original Fallouts.

Case really, we won't see a isometric turn based Fallout game unless there's a "practical marketing reason" for it. Sort of like "Fallout 3: Tactics" or something.

I immediately think of Nintendo DS.

[edit] And then I think some more and realize that a fallout game would never fit on a cartridge. Might fit on an iphone, although I couldn't care less as I'm an android user.

 

[Dork Mage]

So game companies make a third of the retail price for a console copy, on average. That seems pretty shitty

I tried to find an article I read with Trent Reznor where he explained that he received less than a dollar per CD sale when he received his first contract. Publishers seem to be inefficient in general. I understand the service they provide, but judging by several artists actions("Steal this album" "Welcome to the Machine") I tend to think they believe publishers are run by greedy assholes, too.
Then again, if you don't have the beginning capital, where do you begin? A huge cycle of fuck-all.

Often, a developer is loaned money to develop a game. The publisher charges interest on the loan. Sales profits for the developer first go to paying back the loan, so the developer doesn't see any additional money until sales pays off the loan.

Also, the contract (typically 15-20% of sales for known developer's) is for a set delivery date, but if you miss the contract deadline then the publisher reduces your 'take.' This is one of the reasons games are published 'unfinished.'

 

[C2B]

[edit] And then I think some more and realize that a fallout game would never fit on a cartridge. Might fit on an iphone, although I couldn't care less as I'm an android user.

A Fallout game the old style of the world map would easily fit on a cartdridge. Especially a 3DS one when it comes out.

Even an adjusted Fallout 1 or Fallout 2 port could fit on a DS cartdridge. It's pretty near the maximum capacity of a DS cartdrige already anyway.

 

[maximaz]

um, since when does an artist get even close to 20 dollars for every album sold? music is by a long shot the industry that brings the least money back to the creator.

Note how I said "game companies". I'm not talking about developers or creators here. We were discussing the claim of $300m if Bethesda sold 5m.

 

[KING SHIT]

Zenimax has been buying studios. They may buy up Obsidian some time.

 

[junkevil]

As far as entertainment products go (movies, music, etc.), games seem to bring the least money. No wonder, the publishers constantly look for ways to rip people off.

um, since when does an artist get even close to 20 dollars for every album sold? music is by a long shot the industry that brings the least money back to the creator.

that's sort of a silly comparison considering what's involved in the making of a game like new vegas and the making of an album. to make an album, you generally just need a studio, some musicians and lots of drugs, possibly hookers. that's way cheap in comparison.

 

[Beelzebud]

I tried to find an article I read with Trent Reznor where he explained that he received less than a dollar per CD sale when he received his first contract. Publishers seem to be inefficient in general. I understand the service they provide, but judging by several artists actions("Steal this album" "Welcome to the Machine") I tend to think they believe publishers are run by greedy assholes, too.
Then again, if you don't have the beginning capital, where do you begin? A huge cycle of fuck-all.

Paul Leary, the guitar player for The Butthole Surfers said that when their band got the big record deal with Capitol Records, it was the first time in a 20 year career where they released an album, went on tour, and were in debt with the record company when it was all over. Up until that point they had beeing doing it themselves and doing fine. Needless to say, they got out of their "deal" and are back to making a profit again, without compromising what they do.

 

[decline]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda thought that now they don't need Obsidian anymore, used their ideas instead and threw them out. Now that they see how Fallout 3 could have looked like they might want to "improve" New Vegas in their own way without Obsidian's help. In short they will make Foblivion 4 with hardcore mode option.

.... ... .. . oh....fuck....i think....you....might...be right.
I don't want to think about what that is going to look like anymore.

 

[decline]

So game companies make a third of the retail price for a console copy, on average. That seems pretty shitty

I tried to find an article I read with Trent Reznor where he explained that he received less than a dollar per CD sale when he received his first contract. Publishers seem to be inefficient in general. I understand the service they provide, but judging by several artists actions("Steal this album" "Welcome to the Machine") I tend to think they believe publishers are run by greedy assholes, too.
Then again, if you don't have the beginning capital, where do you begin? A huge cycle of fuck-all.

This is a bit dated...but is still pretty much how the recording industry operates.
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

Most bands regularly end up in debt. The few that most people point to that have weathered the storm and well off are the exception to the rule and at some point or points in their careers had lengthy legal battles of rights and royalties.
Keep in mind as well, that the above link assumes the amounts get reported correctly and the band actually gets their full share...something that doesn't always happen.