9/11

Vox said:
Hi. I'm Nikolai Tesla. I invented the Steamengine, the hand-axe and the DVD.
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A bit off-topic... Nikolai Tesla is actually spelled Nikola Tesla, and he was born in Croatia. He took the USA citizenship after moving there and lots of his inventions were credited to other people (the most known being Edison and the lightbulb).

Now, back to the topic. The Americans have killed way over 3000 people (soldiers and civilians) in the Iraqi war with their "smart" bombs and attacks on "military" goals that turned out to be hospitals and other civilian buildings. The American pilots are pumped with amphetamine before going on missions so they can be more "efficient". What I find particularly disgusting is the propaganda. A soldier killed by friendly fire was represented as a hero who died defending his country.
 
Okay, people, cut out this bullshit right now.

Half of this thread is nothing but a bunch of trolling bullshit going back and forth between 'the USA is teh bestest' and 'the USA sucksors!', neither of which is even half the truth. Keep this clean and intelligent or it goes into the Vats.

That goes especially for what you're doing, Vox. Claiming "On 9/11/2001 I won 50 bucks. We placed bets and i predicted that there's gonna be another plane for the other tower. I won." and that the USA are great because they exploited black people is nothing but a poor troll.

Keep this civil.
 
mr. pastorius said:
The Americans have killed way over 3000...
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But the thing is, non of us really cares, cause it's all about money, we make more, cause we supply them with the guns, gas, iron, pla, pla, pla.
But, who this "us" is, well the world, we might put the big A to trade embargo, but... well we don't. We did put it to North Korea, cause they(the Americans) asked. :D Not, cause it could harm us. :ok:
 
I'm going to go on an overnight drunk. And in 10 days I'm going to set out to find the Sting Ray that stabbed my friend, and destroy it.
 
The Commissar said:
I'm going to go on an overnight drunk. And in 10 days I'm going to set out to find the Sting Ray that stabbed my friend, and destroy it.
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And what scientific purpose does this serve?
 
Serifan said:
we shall never forget
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Yes we will.

I'm not saying this out of spite, disinterest or annoyance, 9/11 as a historic event is simply too insignificant to be remembered by most of the world for long, and the US has never been too good at long attention spans, so the chance of them remembering forever is pretty small.
 
Audiostave said:
I can remember coming back from school that day and hearing one of my neighbours mentioning something about a plane flying into the WTC. I spent the rest of the day in front of the television being completely blown away by the magnitude of the attack.
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Yes, the nature and magnitude of the attack is something that amazes me to this day. Two 747s, crashing head on into the WTC towers, bringing their collapse in a few hours. Who could've thought of that? It was, and still is, something... otherworldy, as if it could not be put alongside other historic events in a history book. That was something about it that made it more than a purely causal event; it marked an epoch. Human nature expanded in that moment; that was how I felt.

I think there is a lot to be found out from this event, and the events that followed. Many people claim it was all a conspiracy; that the government did it. I find many irreconcilable flaws in that theory, but I am today more than suspicious that we don't know the whole story. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the plot was already known by American intelligence, and it would surprise just a little bit if the terrorists were actually aided in their plans. Bin Laden is in all probability dead and buried, kept only as some sort Goldstein to pacify American public opinion. Attacks have been happening in Europe, which got dragged into a disastrous war by its plutocratic masters; while some other terrorist plans, sometimes of a very risible nature(Sears tower, liquid bombers...etc) have been foiled in time, but too served the purpose of terrifying the population. Independently of the true facts behind this whole story, what is certain is that the West is losing the last portions of its perspective; it has become weaker and more susceptible. We act like wounded animals; our morality is confused. Our enemies shouldn't really be our enemies, and our allies are not really our allies.

I'm not too concerned with America, whose own nature is nothing more than a logical consequence of the ideologies that corrupted Europe, a Far West in its own right, and is for all purposes irretrievably lost. The old continent is what concerns me; we have nothing to win from this madness.

Suffer said:
Serifan said:
we shall never forget
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Yes we will.

I'm not saying this out of spite, disinterest or annoyance, 9/11 as a historic event is simply too insignificant to be remembered by most of the world for long, and the US has never been too good at long attention spans, so the chance of them remembering forever is pretty small.
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That will depend on a lot of things. It is turning into Holocaust 2, already, so If this "War on Terror" prolongates over the years, you, or anyone with a television, won't be able to forget it so soon.
 
Draugen said:
Yes, the nature and magnitude of the attack is something that amazes me to this day. Two 747s, crashing head on into the WTC towers, bringing their collapse in a few hours. Who could've thought of that? It was, and still is, something... otherworldy, as if it could not be put alongside other historic events in a history book. That was something about it that made it more than a purely causal event; it marked an epoch. Human nature expanded in that moment; that was how I felt.
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It did occur to you that you only felt like this because, unlike other historic events, you were there this time?

I've heard people say it made them feel the same way as when Kennedy was shot, they were watching something horrible and significant. Extraordinarily significant? Don't make me laugh.
 
Suffer said:
Draugen said:
Yes, the nature and magnitude of the attack is something that amazes me to this day. Two 747s, crashing head on into the WTC towers, bringing their collapse in a few hours. Who could've thought of that? It was, and still is, something... otherworldy, as if it could not be put alongside other historic events in a history book. That was something about it that made it more than a purely causal event; it marked an epoch. Human nature expanded in that moment; that was how I felt.
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It did occur to you that you only felt like this because, unlike other historic events, you were there this time?

I've heard people say it made them feel the same way as when Kennedy was shot, they were watching something horrible and significant. Extraordinarily significant? Don't make me laugh.
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President assassinations have happened throughout history, sometimes with much greater consequences. I'm not merely speaking of the direct political consequences of the 9/11 attack; I'm saying that, with it, the world has taken another direction; our perception shifted; the whole nature of politics readjusted.
 
The whole world's perception shifted? You know, just because America got to experience for the first time in a long time, invasion of its own soil and the murder of its own citizens, doesn't mean jack shit to people who have been putting up with that for quite some time now.
 
Commissar, the US people like to forget, that the world consist of more then the american continent.
 
Draugen said:
President assassinations have happened throughout history, sometimes with much greater consequences. I'm not merely speaking of the direct political consequences of the 9/11 attack; I'm saying that, with it, the world has taken another direction; our perception shifted; the whole nature of politics readjusted.
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Really?

You are aware that Europe was long since familiar with the woes of terrorism?

Islamism wasn't a new threat by far either, not since the fall of Byzantium.

Hell, even an attack on American soil is not unprecedented.

No, I assure you, the world has not taken a new direction. Everything is still going exactly the same way it used to be except that the middle east is now fucked up even more than it used to be and the always low-threat of terrorism has become a tiny bit bigger.
 
Unfortunately for me, whilst will think of what an awful act it was - 9/11 will forever mark in my mind the twin pardox of the Crusade and the Jihad. One is the crazy uber christian Americans led by their nutso president (who sure in hell shouldn't be allowed to run a country in his neo-christianic way, but thats another story) and the other is a large group of fundamentalists who have twisted a largly peaceful religion into a shell of twisted hatred.
Since 9/11 nearly 50,000 people have died through terrorist bombings, America's War on Terror and the Israli-Palistian-Lebanon conflicts. 3,000 people is insignificant when you think of that tragedy.
 
Vox said:
Commissar, the US people like to forget, that the world consist of more then the american continent.
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Strike two for trolling and not heeding my warning about keeping this clean and intelligent. Only one more left.
 
Suffer said:
Really?

You are aware that Europe was long since familiar with the woes of terrorism?

Islamism wasn't a new threat by far either, not since the fall of Byzantium.

Hell, even an attack on American soil is not unprecedented.

No, I assure you, the world has not taken a new direction. Everything is still going exactly the same way it used to be except that the middle east is now fucked up even more than it used to be and the always low-threat of terrorism has become a tiny bit bigger.
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I don't think you got my point. It isn't about "terrorism", or "Islam"; it is about the implication of the event in historical perception, misusing the term a little, here, to cover a reality that cannot be integrated into "history" as we see it.

Everything that constitutes history results from a way of looking at things, a "collective subconscious" as some call it, or as I prefer to call it, a soul, that is the product of an age - the age, here, as unit of space-time. That soul(the nervous system of civilization) is constantly being transformed in ways which we, most times, cannot detect. Politics is an art of subtlety, and therefore regists many of those small changes. The observer with a minimum of intellectual acuity will perceive that political discourse and political relations have adjusted themselves, recently. The more astute he is, the deeper he will be able to probe into the relations of power going on today. I'd risk saying that 9/11 marks an epoch in contemporaneus history, not only because of its political consequences, but mainly because it was unreal, in all its aspects, direct, indirect or all the others. Whether I'm right or wrong, only the perspective of those in the future will be able to tell.
 
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