A closer look at Gamebryo

[Cold Zer0]

Some people, as I can see, really just won't discuss anything except the fact that F3 will suck. Now thats sad. I'm not talking about story of the game right now. I'm just interested how it will work from a technical point. If it looks good, and has the old atmosphere and would run through it just to see it in new graphical environment.

1: 1st person view should be optional!!!

2: @wamingo: Its a job of max 2 hour coding to put mouse clicks instead of pushing a joypad button so your commentary really doesn't cut it.

3: Its not a problem to implement a fixed isometric view for the camera. Start from this: They want it to appeal to mass gamers so they design all models, textures and art for 1st person. With that looking ok they just add 1 more camera view and u get a nicely looking isometric game (from a graphical point of view).

4: Also I am not defending Bethsoft, I just don't like when some people have locked their minds and wouldn't care to talk about any other option about F3.

5: Bethsoft has some REALLY POOR designers, but they have good coders. That's the only thing that could convince me to play the game at least once. But I won't buy it

6:@Briosafreak: Krondor series rules

 

[Maphusio]

6:@Briosafreak: Krondor series rules

It pwns so hard I took a picture with my original box copy of RaK... I tried to capture my initial excitement when I received it as a gift from the ol' Ma n pa... It made my heart melt with RPG like excitement that I once felt for a myspace girl that gave me an std. I couldn't display a picture of my reaction when I picked up Fallout but I'm sure it can be found heavily flagged on youtube.

Bethy MUST have the default camera view set for isometric view... No questions asked. I agree that 1st person view would be an interesting experience but, I don't want to eat that cake... I want to have pie too... That made sense right?

Edit: that std part was a joke... honest, gosh you just cant joke about that now a days!?!

 

[Sander]

Some people, as I can see, really just won't discuss anything except the fact that F3 will suck. Now thats sad. I'm not talking about story of the game right now. I'm just interested how it will work from a technical point. If it looks good, and has the old atmosphere and would run through it just to see it in new graphical environment.

1: 1st person view should be optional!!!

2: @wamingo: Its a job of max 2 hour coding to put mouse clicks instead of pushing a joypad button so your commentary really doesn't cut it.

No, the entire game and system needs to be designed around it. How do you properly implement a turn-based system while you have to manually push around your character, for instance?

(If you say KOTOR I swear to God I'm going to kill you).

3: Its not a problem to implement a fixed isometric view for the camera. Start from this: They want it to appeal to mass gamers so they design all models, textures and art for 1st person. With that looking ok they just add 1 more camera view and u get a nicely looking isometric game (from a graphical point of view).

Again, that's now what it's about. The fact that there is a 1st person view at all means that you are affecting the entire design. 1st person view with mouse clicks? And hence: 1st person view with turn-based combat?

4: Also I am not defending Bethsoft, I just don't like when some people have locked their minds and wouldn't care to talk about any other option about F3.

Maybe you should look around at what we already know about Bethsoft before telling us 'it *could* be different'. It's been three years and Bethsoft haven't show *anything* positive, only negative.

5: Bethsoft has some REALLY POOR designers, but they have good coders. That's the only thing that could convince me to play the game at least once. But I won't buy it

Eh....Oblivion was buggy as hell.

 

[LooZ^]

Ekhm... One thing. They already make some 1st person view, next gen and "mass" game - Oblivion. If they want earn some extra cash then it should be something totally new. Oblivion with guns? I don't think so.

 

[Endless Void]

Ekhm... One thing. They already make some 1st person view, next gen and "mass" game - Oblivion. If they want earn some extra cash then it should be something totally new. Oblivion with guns? I don't think so.

Why? I mean they already have a cult of console freaks with that 1st person, next gen "mass" game... Why unplease them when those kiddies go around sucking BethSoft's cock waiting for "Oblivion with guns"?... And that cult outnumbers us big time indeed...

Well... We are fucked already... Face it...

But I'm just wondering... Maybe there's still time enough to do something... The question is "what is that something"...

 

[Sander]

Ekhm... One thing. They already make some 1st person view, next gen and "mass" game - Oblivion. If they want earn some extra cash then it should be something totally new. Oblivion with guns? I don't think so.

Yeah, great logic there buddy. Especially considering, you know, *what they've said so far* which pretty much directly contradicts that.

 

[radnan]

2: @wamingo: Its a job of max 2 hour coding to put mouse clicks instead of pushing a joypad button so your commentary really doesn't cut it.

perhaps but they level design is not gonna take 2 hours because there is no middle ground between the two systems - if its 1st person it would be foolish not to design multiple story levels with overlapping architecture - water depth etc. - and when you design these levels you'll see that they will be almost unplayable from a different angle other than 1st or 3rd person from behind view ...

so if you implement both it costs more time and does you no favours....

 

[Egis]

What I remembered most about games built on Gamebryo that I've played (Oblivion, Civ4, Gothic 3, Empire Earth 2) is that they were all absolute system hogs from the moment you clicked on their icon and that they performed poorly on all but the lowest settings and they looked sucky on them.

you can say that again ....

 

[wamingo]

Xerxes, I can't guarantee that they won't majorly change a console game to favour pc gamers, but I am willing to place a fairly large bet that they won't. There's a lot of things that can be done in 2 hours, and/or not very long, that would make it more Fallout and such, but it would be the first time a console happy developer like bethesda would have tried it. Large companies don't bother with things like that.

Take the interface from oblivion, it makes perfect sense as a television-made-gamestation requires; giant icons, scrolling everything, selection by up and down, mouse feels like a hack and practically useless, rubbish all overview, etc...
Why, of all things, on a flagship game like elderscrolls 4, could they not make the game a little more pc friendly?
I believe the reason we're looking for here is "good enough", and that is my answer to you.

 

[Cold Zer0]

2: @wamingo: Its a job of max 2 hour coding to put mouse clicks instead of pushing a joypad button so your commentary really doesn't cut it.

No, the entire game and system needs to be designed around it. How do you properly implement a turn-based system while you have to manually push around your character, for instance?

(If you say KOTOR I swear to God I'm going to kill you).

KOTOR doesn't have a turn based system! And, by the way, the way u move your character around has absolutely no impact on the combat system. U won't be playing Max Payne or some other game. Thing is that turn based system is not a big deal to code into the engine. When the combat starts u could even activate move restrictions so that characters move on hexes.

3: Its not a problem to implement a fixed isometric view for the camera. Start from this: They want it to appeal to mass gamers so they design all models, textures and art for 1st person. With that looking ok they just add 1 more camera view and u get a nicely looking isometric game (from a graphical point of view).

Again, that's now what it's about. The fact that there is a 1st person view at all means that you are affecting the entire design. 1st person view with mouse clicks? And hence: 1st person view with turn-based combat?

And who said that u can fight from the 1st person view. Anyway When u design the game in 3d it doesn't matter from which angle your watching your objects they still have to behave the same. So if u see an NPC from 1st person u can, lets say, right click on him, and get the familiar menu with options. That NPC would behave exactly the same if you click on him from the isometric view. And as I said
combat is from the 3rd person. Console gamers wouldn't mind that. Every freaking sequel of Final Fantasy had the combat done that way so I think they are used to it. When the combat starts the camera would go back, exit your body and then lift up and turn around until its fixed into the isometric view. It would even be a cool effect.

4: Also I am not defending Bethsoft, I just don't like when some people have locked their minds and wouldn't care to talk about any other option about F3.

Maybe you should look around at what we already know about Bethsoft before telling us 'it *could* be different'. It's been three years and Bethsoft haven't show *anything* positive, only negative.

Then we will just wait. We have nothing to lose right.

5: Bethsoft has some REALLY POOR designers, but they have good coders. That's the only thing that could convince me to play the game at least once. But I won't buy it

Eh....Oblivion was buggy as hell.

Well that's the problem with test team. And the CEO's who don't want to give more time for test. Coders have to no choice rather than to comply. And even if its buggy it would be like good old times

 

[Cold Zer0]

Xerxes, I can't guarantee that they won't majorly change a console game to favour pc gamers, but I am willing to place a fairly large bet that they won't. There's a lot of things that can be done in 2 hours, and/or not very long, that would make it more Fallout and such, but it would be the first time a console happy developer like bethesda would have tried it. Large companies don't bother with things like that.

Take the interface from oblivion, it makes perfect sense as a television-made-gamestation requires; giant icons, scrolling everything, selection by up and down, mouse feels like a hack and practically useless, rubbish all overview, etc...
Why, of all things, on a flagship game like elderscrolls 4, could they not make the game a little more pc friendly?
I believe the reason we're looking for here is "good enough", and that is my answer to you.

That's true. That's really true. But as I said no point in giving up hope until the game is finished. Small hope is that mod builders can change interface in a matter of days. But you are aboslutely right about the desing for consoles.

 

[Sander]

KOTOR doesn't have a turn based system! And, by the way, the way u move your character around has absolutely no impact on the combat system. U won't be playing Max Payne or some other game. Thing is that turn based system is not a big deal to code into the engine. When the combat starts u could even activate move restrictions so that characters move on hexes.

Yes, it does have a big impact. Try coming up with a first-person interface that works with a tactical turn-based combat system.
That's right, it doesn't work.

And who said that u can fight from the 1st person view. Anyway When u design the game in 3d it doesn't matter from which angle your watching your objects they still have to behave the same. So if u see an NPC from 1st person u can, lets say, right click on him, and get the familiar menu with options. That NPC would behave exactly the same if you click on him from the isometric view.

Except that the interface is *gravely* affected. It changes almost everything about that interface.

And as I said
combat is from the 3rd person. Console gamers wouldn't mind that. Every freaking sequel of Final Fantasy had the combat done that way so I think they are used to it. When the combat starts the camera would go back, exit your body and then lift up and turn around until its fixed into the isometric view. It would even be a cool effect.

FInal Fantasy is very different in combat from Fallout, especially since the viewpoint there *is* completely irrelevant.
Other than that, the hybrid isometric/first-person camera could work technically (although there is still the issue of artistic style and interface constraints), but that's not what Bethesda is doing.

Well that's the problem with test team. And the CEO's who don't want to give more time for test. Coders have to no choice rather than to comply. And even if its buggy it would be like good old times

No, that's the problem of the coders. Good programmers don't make buggy games in the first place.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Xerxes, "u" shouldn't double post and using "u" makes "u" look retarded. This is not yahoo messenger, you have time to type "you".

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

What would be worse:

They make Oblivion with guns. It sells.

They make Fallout 3, with horrible implementations.It doesn't sell.

 

[Claw]

They could go with the first person movement through towns as an option (there's nothing wrong with 1st person view) but as u start combat (which should be turned based) they could switch it to 3rd person isometric view.

Ah, déjà vu.

We had this debate before, and I've been a proponent of the free camera concept from day one, being able to zoom into FP view and zoom out into an isometric-like view.
I'm also a fan of the idea of taking control of the camera to create cutscene-like scenes ingame, like a first-person sweep or flyby when entering a location for the first time.

No, the entire game and system needs to be designed around it. How do you properly implement a turn-based system while you have to manually push around your character, for instance?

What would the problem be? You could tie the controls to the camera mode. Let's say WASD normally controls the camera, but in FP mode these keys control the selected character directly, much like in RoA's FP mode.
The main issue I see is the graphical interface. In Fallout you have a mouse pointer at all times, while in a FP game your mouse typically controls pitch and angle of the camera.
However, that's not an unsurmountable obstacle. RMB could easily switch between mouse pointer and camera control.
In theory, the interface could work pretty much identical to the "isometric" view, except the points mentioned above. You can click on interactive objects in your view and options from an interface like Fallout's.
Of course this is assuming that FP isn't the preferred view, especially for combat.


The only true problem I see is that Bethesda is developing the game. Whatever viable concepts I imagine, I have a hard time imagining Bethesda implementing them.

 

[Cold Zer0]

I'm sorry about double post. I was in a hurry while replying. Typing "u" instead of "you" is a reflex from too much mmo I guess. But I don't see what's the big problem if u ( ) know what I'm talking about.

Anyway don't wanna talk about this anymore. No point I guess. Everyone has their point of view

Anyway the best thing is to just wait and see. Then we'll compare notes

 

[Blunted]

they aren't making this game for the loyal fans, they're making it for the current generation of gamers who don't hold game developer's to such a high standard.

Ah come on now, even reminiscing isn't as good as it used to be

There were plenty of shit games in the old days too, as I'm quite sure you are aware.

 

[Blunted]

But I'm just wondering... Maybe there's still time enough to do something... The question is "what is that something"...

Suicide.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Don't double post. It makes baby Jah cry.

 

[Blunted]

I didn't mean to, used to whichever script most forums I use adding it if it's posted within a couple of mins. Apologies, I know it looks ugly. I would edit and copy if I could delete it.