A Question For the NMA Community

[Rad Blaggard]

I... I don't even know what it is you're saying. rephrase?

In your original statement you implied that Bethesda used input from their fans on Fallout 3 and that "the hard-core fan base has done [too] much damag[e to] its credibility to be constructive" which made you doubt Bethesda seeking input from them again. You provided no evidence for how or when the "hard-core fan base" damaged their credibility nor have you provided any proof (interview, forum posts, game features) for when or where they went looking for or implemented fan input on the game. Provide evidence for both claims.

Oh no... I didn't mean to imply Beth DID get fan input, just that IF they were inclined to do so all they'd have to do is Google up some. It's everywhere! It seems this demand that they "reach out" to the fanbase has overtones that they should be humbled in doing so. Seems very self-important and arrogant.

Using Google one can also see how the hard-core Fallout fanbase has damaged itself in pursuit of having its demands met. I don't think that really needs to be rehashed, do you?

They do have have obligations to their investors, but they shouldn't sale their souls to them. Just look at Metal Gear Solid and how it has only gotten better with time, yet Hideo Kojima has not sold his soul nor turned out a water downed game and it is a hit.

Having sold or should/shouldn't "sell ones soul" is completely OPINION based and not something needing debate. It's an opinion.

Don't double post -MG

 

[Tagaziel]

Oh no... I didn't mean to imply Beth DID get fan input, just that IF they were inclined to do so all they'd have to do is Google up some. It's everywhere! It seems this demand that they "reach out" to the fanbase has overtones that they should be humbled in doing so. Seems very self-important and arrogant.

Post-Morrowind Bethesda is not known for listening to fans. If anything, they use them, then discard when they are no longer useful (case in point: Star Trek Legacy).

And yes, they should treat the fanbase with a measure of respect because the fanbase kept the game alive. Is it that hard to understand? Without us, without the fans, Fallout would be a good game lost in the depths of time.

Using Google one can also see how the hard-core Fallout fanbase has damaged itself in pursuit of having its demands met. I don't think that really needs to be rehashed, do you?

No. Either substantiate your point with proof or don't make it at all. "Use Google" is not acceptable as an argument.

 

[Critter]

Oh no... I didn't mean to imply Beth DID get fan input, just that IF they were inclined to do so all they'd have to do is Google up some. It's everywhere! It seems this demand that they "reach out" to the fanbase has overtones that they should be humbled in doing so. Seems very self-important and arrogant.

You know, something really seems nice about being able to talk to the devs as they're working on a title you're interested in. Really feels like you can end up getting attached to them, their products and also know why they did what and how. Plus it really helps to know that devs are at least somewhat paying attention to the fanbase. Dev to fan connection, simply put, is amazing imo.

Of course, why should Beth bother to use Google? They're too busy making a console game while playing on their Xbox.

Using Google one can also see how the hard-core Fallout fanbase has damaged itself in pursuit of having its demands met. I don't think that really needs to be rehashed, do you?

Fallout fans killed Interplay! Oh noes!!!1!!!

What?

Having sold or should/shouldn't "sell ones soul" is completely OPINION based and not something needing debate. It's an opinion.

Actually, the MGS series is a damn good example. They turned down getting it on Xbox because they wanted to be true to the game style and roots. Complete opposite of Bethesda. No real "opinion" about it.

 

[Rad Blaggard]

You know, something really seems nice about being able to talk to the devs as they're working on a title you're interested in. Really feels like you can end up getting attached to them, their products and also know why they did what and how. Plus it really helps to know that devs are at least somewhat paying attention to the fanbase. Dev to fan connection, simply put, is amazing imo.

Sounds kinda "stalker-ish", especially the "attached to them" part. Seeing the hot tempers associated with Fallout 3... uh yea.

Using Google one can also see how the hard-core Fallout fanbase has damaged itself in pursuit of having its demands met. I don't think that really needs to be rehashed, do you?

Fallout fans killed Interplay! Oh noes!!!1!!!

What?

Yea exactly... WHAT?

I'm talking about the fanbase wanting their Fallout 3 demands met, said nothing about Interplay!!!1!!!

Having sold or should/shouldn't "sell ones soul" is completely OPINION based and not something needing debate. It's an opinion.

Actually, the MGS series is a damn good example. They turned down getting it on Xbox because they wanted to be true to the game style and roots. Complete opposite of Bethesda. No real "opinion" about it.

And Beth is entitled to do business as THEY see fit, thats what ownership means. That was their market OPINION. You're mixing idealism with business.

My opinion is the hard-core FO fanbase tried everything possible to make FO3 a failure once they found out the direction Beth was gonna take it. I suspect they probably figured Beth would sell it back to Interplay or something upon its failure. That would explain much of the relentless hostility (and grasping at straws/nitpicking) concerning FO3.

 

[Critter]

Sounds kinda "stalker-ish", especially the "attached to them" part. Seeing the hot tempers associated with Fallout 3... uh yea.

So it's bad to be a fan of video games? So it's bad to have devs you look up to or respect?

Throw out every musical album you own and love and quit stalking those poor defenseless musicians.

Yea exactly... WHAT?

I'm talking about the fanbase wanting their Fallout 3 demands met, said nothing about Interplay!!!1!!!

Because, you know, Interplay was Fallout 1, and...

Screw it.

And Beth is entitled to do business as THEY see fit, thats what ownership means. That was their market OPINION. You're mixing idealism with business.

And as a result, people have a right to be critical of their decisions and not support their product regardless of your ideas of the Fallout fanbase.

My opinion is the hard-core FO fanbase tried everything possible to make FO3 a failure once they found out the direction Beth was gonna take it. I suspect they probably figured Beth would sell it back to Interplay or something upon its failure. That would explain much of the relentless hostility (and grasping at straws/nitpicking) concerning FO3.

Really? Spending 10 minutes reading here it seems fairly contrary to what you're saying. I'm new to the community and I already have a sense that people bought the game wanting to like it, but have hard times finding any reason to at all.

By "grasping for straws" you must surely mean "having a legitimate reason to dislike a subpar product in terms of quality and design"?

 

[M-26-7]

Sounds kinda "stalker-ish", especially the "attached to them" part. Seeing the hot tempers associated with Fallout 3... uh yea.

How about obsessive or possessed? Those are words adults use rather than "stalker-ish" which is not a word and not a phrase used by anyone who is not a 13 year old girl.

My opinion is the hard-core FO fanbase tried everything possible to make FO3 a failure once they found out the direction Beth was gonna take it. I suspect they probably figured Beth would sell it back to Interplay or something upon its failure. That would explain much of the relentless hostility (and grasping at straws/nitpicking) concerning FO3.

This is the most bizarre thing I've ever read. Plain and simple Interplay hardly has the money to stay alive right now, that can't afford to purchase any IPs. You also seem to endow the fanbase with some kind of "hive mind" where everybody has the same reason for "relentless hostility"


Also I would like you to actually explain how the fan base has "damaged itself". You've never explained this claim, and haven't respond to request for you to do so. This leads me to believe you couldn't.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

My opinion is the hard-core FO fanbase tried everything possible to make FO3 a failure once they found out the direction Beth was gonna take it. I suspect they probably figured Beth would sell it back to Interplay or something upon its failure. That would explain much of the relentless hostility (and grasping at straws/nitpicking) concerning FO3.

An opinion is not a fact and is not acceptable as a replacement for fact in a logical argument. Provide proof for this statement otherwise it's in the same realm as, "My opinion is that Superman exists because we haven't been hit by an asteroid since the introduction of his comics!"

Also note that most hardcore fans were not hoping that Bethesda was going to sell it back to Interplay, people have tossed around names of who they'd like to see buy the license but I'm pretty sure that none have seriously thought that Fallout 3 was likely to fail and that Beth would sell the license, certainly not after release.

Again, prove the points in your post. Prove that hard-core fans (as a whole) tried to make it fail. Also prove that fans "figured Beth would sell it back to Interplay ... upon its failure."

Using Google one can also see how the hard-core Fallout fanbase has damaged itself in pursuit of having its demands met. I don't think that really needs to be rehashed, do you?

No. Either substantiate your point with proof or don't make it at all. "Use Google" is not acceptable as an argument.

Adding to that, you need at least one quote (preferably more) and at least one link.

 

[Corvin]

Shocking thought... Bethesda reached out to the new versions of most of us... at the age most of us encountered Fallout.

 

[Rad Blaggard]

Sounds kinda "stalker-ish", especially the "attached to them" part. Seeing the hot tempers associated with Fallout 3... uh yea.

How about obsessive or possessed? Those are words adults use rather than "stalker-ish" which is not a word and not a phrase used by anyone who is not a 13 year old girl.

Whew, and I thought I'd be called a *12* year old, don't know if my ego could have stood up to THAT brutalization!!

*yawn*
"stalker-ish" embodies the total negativity I was looking to convey so...

You can carry-on being a pompous ass now.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Shocking thought... Bethesda reached out to the new versions of most of us... at the age most of us encountered Fallout.

They targeted a different audience but they didn't reach out to any consumers for input. The most they did was some obligatory Q&As on their forum (two isn't many), damage control when someone slipped on the PR trail (which they only bothered with a handful of times), and a thread where you can talk to the devs about anything other than the game. That isn't reaching out to consumers, certainly not in a meaningful way at the very least, and it isn't asking your fans or consumers for input. In fact, the ignored a fair amount of the feedback from Oblivion, fast travel and the quest compass being two of the most immediately noticeable.

 

[Corvin]

I was eighteen when I first encountered Fallout. Now I'm twenty nine.
Many Fallout fans were younger than me, I'm sure, some older at the time of the initial game.

They're reaching out to the current young audience.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I was eighteen when I first encountered Fallout. Now I'm twenty nine.
Many Fallout fans were younger than me, I'm sure, some older at the time of the initial game.

They're reaching out to the current young audience.

No, they are targeting the current "average gamer", they aren't reaching out to them. Reaching out (aka outreach) is taking it further than just gearing advertising towards a group which, in the case of products, it's communicating directly with consumers in a meaningful way. The other meaning for the word (which is the one I think you're using) is reaching beyond the current audience to draw in new consumers but this is also something that they haven't done because the product didn't expand to include a broader/larger audience but rather switched audiences. There are audience members who belong to both audiences but the product does not appeal to both audiences.

 

[Corvin]

Debateable. I imagine most of us bought Fallout 3... and Fallout 1 and 2 combined haven't reached anything anywhere near Fallout 3's sales.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Debateable. I imagine most of us bought Fallout 3... and Fallout 1 and 2 combined haven't reached anything anywhere near Fallout 3's sales.

No, there are quite a number of folks 'round here that haven't and I think it's fair to say that even less will buy Fallout 4. Also, you can't compare sales numbers for the original games to sales numbers of Fallout 3, the industry was a lot smaller back then, but I will say that Fallout 3's targeting of the "average gamer" (talking full package, not just marketing) probably did cause it to sell to a larger portion of gamers than the original games did.

As for being debatable, compare it to companies that do take input and reach out to their customers, Blizzard is a good example and so is Interplay back when they were in development of Tactics and Van Buren. Heck, Bioware and Obsidian aren't half bad about it.

 

[Commiered]

I think you'll also find that the majority of Fallout 3 sales have been on the console.

It's stupid to compare sales figures between games released 10-11 years ago on one platform which at the time was still niche not mainstream, and with very little advertising with Fallout 3, a cross-platform game, released with a huge advertising blitz in an era where gaming has really become widespread and mainstream.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

I was eighteen when I first encountered Fallout. Now I'm twenty nine.
Many Fallout fans were younger than me, I'm sure, some older at the time of the initial game.

They're reaching out to the current young audience.

Define "young audience" please =)

Besides, how can you reach out to "young audience" for a game that is destined to be rated "M"??

 

[Corvin]

Besides, how can you reach out to "young audience" for a game that is destined to be rated "M"??

Ever heard of this game series called Grand Theft Auto?

It's stupid to compare sales figures between games released 10-11 years ago on one platform which at the time was still niche not mainstream, and with very little advertising with Fallout 3, a cross-platform game, released with a huge advertising blitz in an era where gaming has really become widespread and mainstream.

Is it? There were some very high selling PC only games in that period.

Interplay back when they were in development of Tactics and Van Buren

also... Interplay did outreach back then? Are we talking about the same company? Certain segments of Blizzard do outreach... not all of them.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Ever heard of this game series called Grand Theft Auto?

a) How's that related to "reaching out" to younger gamers for input? "Reaching out" and "targeting" are not the same, y'know...

b) It's pretty ridiculous to claim that the GTA game series was made for gamers 10-15 y.o. If a gaming company wants to make a game for a different audience, it tunes it down to fit the rating they want to have.

Is it? There were some very high selling PC only games in that period.

It's true that Fo1/2 sales weren't ridiculously awesome, but they weren't horrible either. Pretty good for the audience and in the day and age where not everyone owned a PC and the gaming market was much much smaller. Not to mention it was released only on one platform, not three. If you take just the PC FO3 sales, it's not anywhere near the mainstream hits of today, or even of the older days either.

 

[J Marcus]

We don't care about playing FO3 anymore. That doesn't mean we don't care about beth's continued molestation of the name.

I don't see what can be done about this "molestation" seeing as how Beth now owns the rights. I would think the hard-core fan base has done much in damaging its credibility to be constructive, so I doubt Beth will ever seek input beyond their established resources. That ship appears to have sailed.

I put my faith in the modding community at this point. Any other option would be akin to bashing ones head against a brick wall and denying that it hurts in the least. I'm just really glad FO3 is as popular as it is, hopefully this will grow and we'll get FO4 and beyond asap. I'm also hoping for a multiplay FO experience!!

The fact that it has such a dedicated hard core fan base says much about what impact the original makers of the Fallout series made with their games. Bethesda didn't keep Fallout alive. The fans did. And if anything, they owe the fans for contributing to the exposure of this franchise. If Fallout didn't have such a dedicated fan base, it probably wouldn't be as popular, it wouldn't sell as much and they wouldn't have entertained the idea of 'resuscitaing' the franchise in the first place. Damaging the credibility? Give me a break.

 

[bhlaab]

Is it? There were some very high selling PC only games in that period.

How many of them were cRPGs? And how many of them were Quake clones that were much more expensive to make?

Fallout 1 and 2 operated very well within its niche. A niche that is still going strong despite how many turn based, skills oriented RPGs being released since? Zero? I think it might be zero, actually.