About Fallout 4's companion system

[CerberusGate]

It's so no players miss out regardless of what side they've picked, just like all the romances are bisexual so they don't miss out whether male or female. Or laziness. I'm inclined to think both actually, though more of the former in this case.

Wouldn't it be more interesting if Piper was suspicious of you when you first meet and doesn't instantly believe you're from a Vault and Pre-War? Or if you could work for the Gunners MacCready would be suspicious of you and not follow you without earning some trust (and even after that you could still lose it, permanently).

I recall something that Warren Spector said about game design (I think it was a video where he replayed Deus Ex with other people involved in producing Deus Ex 1): Content does not have to be placed in front of the player all the time as spectacle. Content should be discovered by the player's own initiative and input. I may not be recalling it correctly but that was the gist of it (IIRC he was saying this to counter a statement by Richard Garriot on how content in games should be presented). That is why I always preferred having content that are not immediately available to the player unless the player discovers them on their own like with companions, secrets etc.

And yes, it would be more interesting if the companions were capable of acting like actual people who do not trust a player character immediately upon seeing them.

 

[mchunt]

The companion system relies too heavily on telling me how the characters feel, rather than showing me. If there were some kind of consequences to my actions, that would be nice. But I guess it would too much work to actually program engaging character development.

 

[CerberusGate]

But I guess it would too much work to actually program engaging character development.

No kidding. This wouldn't even be such a glaring issue in 4 were it not for New Vegas and it handled engaging character development for companions in there.

 

[mchunt]

Bethesda apparently can't write anything compelling (unless it's for a character voiced by Wes Johnson)

 

[Walpknut]

Everybody is talking characterization, (which, obviously New vegas wins several times over) but are you forgetting how awkward and barely functioning the interface is? you have to manually equip shit to them and several times characters will just refuse to wear certain armor for no reason at all, Valentine for example is a Synth, which one would imagine would have meshes for wearing different armors considering they are just npcs with a unique race and most armor pieces are equiped on a layer on top of the model, but he can't wear anything.
Not only that but you only have 4 options when interacting with them 1. Give me a random quip 2.Open inventory 3. Wait 4.leave. There is no "Equip the best gear" or "Keep your distance from me" "switch to melee/ranged" "use item" and the pathfinding on these pack mules is braindead at best, you have to hold E against them to tell them to move somewhere, they'll usually stop responding, even to combat and sometimes they won't even attempt to get where you told them to go. Their carrying capacity is also awfully low now so they aren't even good as pack mules. Mechanically this whole thing is a giant turd.

 

[Throatpunch]

Fucking horrible for the most part

• Nick Valentine is a faggot and a stereotypical goody two shoes detective.
• Piper is annoying and a faggy goody two shoes stereotypical reporter.
• Cait has a shitty Irish accent
• Danse is annoying since all he ever calls you is soldier (what are you doing soldier, sound tactics soldier)
• Hancock is a stereotypical as fuck cool junky
• Curie is fucking annoying
• Porter Gage is just dull.
• I have already talked about how crap Strong is.
• Deacon is OK, but they overdid the pathological liar thing so he is not OK.
• Hated Macready in Fallout 3 and I hate him in Fallout 4.
• Codsworth is fucking annoying, and why the fuck does a Mister Handy have all these high up and good morals and opinions. He is a fucking robot meant for washing dishes.
• I fucking hate Preston Garvey the most, because he is an annoying asshole. He is dead because I killed him with mods.

There are no decent companions in the game other than X6-88, who I like since I am in the Institute and it makes sense for him to be with me. I like his simple backstory and dialogue.
He also isnt really annoying.

Also Dogmeat because I love dogs, and he isnt fucking annoying.

 

[CerberusGate]

Not only that but you only have 4 options when interacting with them

After the companion command wheel of New Vegas (which was a huge improvement over 3), a competent game designer would have re-used that aspect and refined it further since it was so efficient and easy to use. Telling someone to wait only requires opening up the wheel and selecting the option.

BGS proves how incompetent they are by not using it and instead using a conversation based command system like with 3. Talk about stepping back into a pitfall of poor game design.

 

[AccountNameM]

It's not like/dislike question, it's just doesn't have a point regarding companion, fucking, system.

Besides, it's not bethesda's system. It's still Fallout New Vegas but reinvented to be grind-friendly.

F4 is dogshit and every single positive comment is a simple bait.

Well, Fallout 4 objectively has better graphics then it's predecessors, so I guess that is one thing you can't argue with.

 

[Risewild]

Well, Fallout 4 objectively has better graphics then it's predecessors, so I guess that is one thing you can't argue with.

Some people still argue about that so it is not that objectively:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/357287935542847883/
Some examples from that link:

Is it just my client or does, even on ultra, Fallout 4's graphics look plastic? I know technically NV's graphics cant stand up to FO4's but atleast the metal looks metal and the wood looks wood. Also, back when the game first came out, I needed to use a texture compression mod because the optimization was so bad, and I uninstalled it now but I feel as if it didnt actually uninstall

But the textures are a bit off, and sometimes even the water looks plastic.

i can run Fallout 4 on ultra setting at 60 fps even in high intensity areas and the game and textures still leave much to be desired.

Well, iirc Fallout 4 is running a different engine than NV, but ya it does need optimization. But Im saying that, NV graphics wise, everything looks like it should, and Fallout 4 wise, everything looks plastic

 

[AccountNameM]

Some people still argue about that so it is not that objectively:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/357287935542847883/
Some examples from that link:

So a link to some random Steam discussion with inherent bias from the start is a source?

Are you fucking kidding me?

So this:

Looks worse then this graphically:

Sounds legit.

 

[CerberusGate]

So this:

Looks worse then this graphically:

Top one looks too similar to the bottom.

Superficially, there are differences like a few textures like wrinkles and decals but fundamentally, they are identical (same vacant expressions, same hair quality etc.). In fact, the striking similarities between the two says more about the one above that is supposedly more advanced than the one below.

 

[Risewild]

So a link to some random Steam discussion with inherent bias from the start is a source?

Are you fucking kidding me?

So this:

Looks worse then this graphically:

Sounds legit.

Graphics are not just faces, and still when it rains even faces look like they are covered in a plastic sheet. You said objectively the graphics are better but many people don't think so, so it is not objectively.
I don't really care about graphics in either game and this thread is about the companions so I will not post more about this, I just had to clarify.

The companions falling in love or hating the player because he unlocks doors, only talk in sarcastic mode or mod his weapons is also pretty stupid. Did anyone already talked about this here? I bet it was already posted but I can't remember. Another stupid thing is that we can't kill the companions even when they are not in my party. I tried to kill the Mr Handy when I saw it the first time and also the Dog but they are essential even when not in my party... How stupid is that?

 

[mrchaos]

So a link to some random Steam discussion with inherent bias from the start is a source?

Are you fucking kidding me?

So this:

Looks worse then this graphically:

Sounds legit.

In the end, it doesn´t really matter if its graphically better since F4 writing is crap.

 

[CerberusGate]

I don't really care about graphics in either game and this thread is about the companions so I will not post more about this, I just had to clarify.

True, bringing up graphics in a discussion about 4's companion system is rather pointless. Plus 4's system for companions is still crap (approval systems, command systems, inventory systems etc.).

 

[AccountNameM]

Top one looks too similar to the bottom.

Superficially, there are differences like wrinkles and decals but fundamentally, they are identical (same vacant expressions, same hair quality etc.). In fact, the striking similarities between the two says more about the one above that is supposedly more advanced than the one below.

So increased detail does not equate to better graphics, even though the latter literally comes with the PS4/Xbox One, and only with those in terms of consoles. Plus, detail is considered by many to indicate good graphical fidelity.

Bias =/= fact, you have to admit it looks better overall.

 

[CerberusGate]

Wrong place to discuss graphics in a thread about companion systems so I'm not even gonna give a proper lengthy response. I'll just repeat what I usually do when dealing with folks like yourself.

you have to admit it looks better overall

Too bad I don't actually care about graphics. People can tell me that detail adds graphical fidelity and somehow enhances a triple-A title but I couldn't care less if everything else about it stunk.

 

[AccountNameM]

Wrong place to discuss graphics in a thread about companion systems so I'm not even gonna give a proper response.


Too bad I don't actually care about graphics. People can tell me that detail adds graphical fidelity and somehow enhances a triple-A title but I couldn't care less if everything else about it stunk.

Except it didn't. You have to admit, surely a game that is 40 gigs+, made by a professional studio, can't be completely atrocious in almost every aspect, so Fallout 4 must have some good parts about it.

 

[CerberusGate]

The companions falling in love or hating the player because he unlocks doors, only talk in sarcastic mode or mod his weapons is also pretty stupid. Did anyone already talked about this here? I bet it was already posted but I can't remember. Another stupid thing is that we can't kill the companions even when they are not in my party. I tried to kill the Mr Handy when I saw it the first time and also the Dog but they are essential even when not in my party... How stupid is that?

I think there have been many times people have talked about the approval system of 4 and how ridiculous it was. How does one fall in love with another by watching them take drugs, unlock doors and talk convincingly?

Plus having all party members being invulnerable was ridiculous, while convenient due to how stupid the AI can be. It is quite maddening when I can't kill Preston to shut him up whenever he tries to bring up a new Radiant Quest (especially when it was the final mission of the main quest).

 

[Black Angel]

So a link to some random Steam discussion with inherent bias from the start is a source?

Are you fucking kidding me?

So this:

Looks worse then this graphically:

Sounds legit.

You didn't even address some of the points made in those links, and you're bringing discussion to faces.

Take a look at this:

and then compare it to this:

Both of them are from YouTube videos of both games running on Ultra High settings.

I haven't, and will not, play Fallout 4, but from any videos I watched where the game supposedly runs on highest setting possible, everything looks like plastic (as mentioned by those Steam discussion). Having played New Vegas vanilla once, I understand those saying how everything looked like as it should be, despite using 'inferior' version of the engine.

So increased detail does not equate to better graphics, even though the latter literally comes with the PS4/Xbox One, and only with those in terms of consoles. Plus, detail is considered by many to indicate good graphical fidelity.

Bias =/= fact, you have to admit it looks better overall.

Except it didn't. You have to admit, surely a game that is 40 gigs+, made by a professional studio, can't be completely atrocious in almost every aspect, so Fallout 4 must have some good parts about it.

Yeah, yeah, but again you still ignored the points made by those Steam discussion. If you want to make a point about graphics, instead of dodging the points you should counter it by providing screenshots to prove that overall graphics looks like intended (instead of looking like plastics as some of those Steam discussion claimed).

Hell, you even ignored the point of, "and still when it rains even faces look like they are covered in a plastic sheet." made by @Risewild. Why not try to counter it by providing screenshots/videos to prove otherwise? Instead, you keep insisting "Increased details, 40+ gigs, 'professional studio' = objectively better graphics" but can't show screenshots/videos to counter the points made by others, and instead drags the discussion to faces details, but still barely addressed the counter points made in return.

Also, this thread ain't fit for discussing graphics/things the game did good. You should post in this thread, instead.

 

[CerberusGate]

@Black Angel
My advice: Don't bother replying or even speaking to Ignored Member (that's how its name appears on my screen, it's account name... I can't even recall it). It's apparently a troll mentioned by other members as being a relentlessly pathetic troll on the site that the ignore button is meant for.