Adapting Van Buren (Workshop - Complete on Page 30)

Discussion in 'Fan Art/Fan Fiction' started by Atomic Postman, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    These are the marked locations, ones that are important that I feel need to be marked with custom icons, of which you've already done most of @Hardboiled Android


    1: Van Buren Prison
    2: Grand Junction
    3: Burning Springs
    4: New Canaan
    5: Salt Lake City
    6: Motown
    7: Denver (Dogtown)
    8: Boulder Dome
    9: Magnum Chasma
    10: Ouroboros
    11: Fort Cochise
    12: Twin Mothers
    13: Lone Mesa
    14: Nexus
    15: Rebirth
    16: New Mariposa
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  2. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Also I am thinking for other areas we should use the NV icons like so, but recolored in whatever color suits the map best:

    Also might I suggest for Boulder Dome's icon we use the Mad Scientist Scrubs or some other Vault Boy?

    I love all of the other images but I feel as though the Boulder Dome one doesn't fit quite right.
  3. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    pics not showing up
  4. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Oh, weird.


    example of NV icon

    Mad scientist scrubs

  5. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    Oh yeah, that was always the plan.

    And the Mad Scientist scrubs definitely do look better - I'll see if they can be improved on at all by adding it holding the beakers. In any case I'll need to do a higher definition version.
  6. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    You can find the high res versions on the wikis but I assume you know that.

    Also, how are we going to handle Nexus/Lone Mesa? I think taking the Paladin from the NV BoS rep icon for Lone Mesa and then some sort of tribal replacement for the BoS guy on the Nexus symbol
  7. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    The "high res" icons on the wiki are still quite low res and pixellated, since they only exist for the very small PIP-Boy display for the most part. Still require retouching to look good IMO, or at least as good as they could.

    I was thinking the same on Lone Mesa. The Nexus one could still work fine as-is since the Unseen Brothers are such a major force, but I could just replace it with a tribal guy if you want.
  8. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    That'd work. I also think a more classic Fallout green would work better against the colour of the map rather than the orange. Thoughts on that?
  9. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    Sounds good to me. Same for HUD?
  10. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
  11. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    @Atomic Postman Finished Arizona. Here are my more substantive notes:

    Little detail to add - a crude triumphal arch at the entrance of the Forum, perhaps commemorating Flagstaff?
    *I hope you still use the Ben Hur track for entrance into the Forum.
    *Feels like the Painted Rocks shouldn't be in Monument Valley - they should be in the Painted Desert ( Maybe put the Sidewinders home in Monument Valley instead. Heck, it might even be a good place for Fort Cochise, since its a classic Western setting and this is a classic Western tropes quest.
    *Picture choice is odd here, doesn't have anything to do with selling slaves really. I'll throw out a few alternatives -

    *Again, I'll suggest a different image for Caesar's fort:
    *Terminology note: Legion refers to Hecate as "the Witch" or less formally, "the Bitch."

    Some non-watermarked images:

    *Perhaps "Grandmaster" would be a better name then "Chessmaster?" That's the title given in chess, and it avoids the overuse of the word "chess." Also it has a more sinister connotation.
    *Might it bee necessary to replace the name "Pickertown" in light of the Scaven-Pickers?
    *Where did you get the name "Altonians" from?
    *Mafia seems like an understatement for life under the Altonians.
    *Some suggestions for further beasts, or maybe just pick one as the final boss: Gila Monster, Deathclaw, Cazadore, Rattlers - Super Mutants (see Bear).
    *Do you plan on actually playing out a game of chess with the Party, or just running it like the chess game with ZAX in Fo1?
    *Rule of threes - maybe one more quest here? It could be something generic pushing interaction with the Pickertonians. Alternatively, here's a pitch: several Altonian boys and girls have gone missing. The Legion has connected them to a missionary known to be operating in a region, and are asking you to go check it out. A small group of Legionaries have cornered the missionary in a dilapidated ruin. With him are a number of tribal converts he's gathered from other tribes and towns over the years, and the Altonian children. They're no match for the Legion party, and he knows it. Complication: he's rigged up his converts and the building with explosives, enough to kill them and take the Legionaries with them. He's heard stories in his time in Arizona, and he's terrified of the fate awaiting his flock (and himself) if he surrenders. The legionaries will tell the players to handle it, and retreat behind a nearby ridge in case you fuck up. You could use sneak and explosives to disarm the bombs. With a high New Canaan rep and/or a Survival knowledge check, you can remind him that suicide is a mortal sin. Or you can simply use Speech to talk him down. Upon doing so, you have two options: 1) Help him escape, either generically (with high odds that they'll die in the desert) or specifically to Fort Cochise. To cover it up, you either kill the party of Legionaries (and tell Remus that they were killed by the Missionary and party - Remus will be disappointed, but he can't blame you too much) or blow up the building after the Missionary flees, and tell the party they pulled the trigger. 2) You can hand them over to the Legion. In essence this entire quest exists to have the classic "Christians in the Colosseum" moment. To that end, maybe make it only appear following the delivery of the highest level animal for the Arena, to maximize the carnage.
    *One detail that I would really recommend you add in to the part where Pickertonian life under the legion: one of the privileges they enjoy is to see their former oppressors pitted against each other and beasts in battle. I think this is an important detail to add in.

    It's worth noting that this section is very insubstantial - they're essentially just background fluff, set dressing for Magnum Chasma and Bloomfield. That's not a problem at all, though it does make it a little odd for them to get their own section. Potentially you could change this section into one called "Tribes of Northern Arizona," with the Twisted Hairs at the end of it. It could give an opportunity to expound upon the Great Gila, and other tribes. Partly this is because we're told so often that Arizona was a tribal wasteland, but we only see a handful here: the Twisted Hairs, the Painted Rocks, and the Rusty Hooks.
    *In addition to the Twisted Hairs an argument could be made for consolidating the Painted Rocks into this tribal section, since they're fairly insubstantial. This would have the "disadvantage" of requiring an additional section, though I would argue this isn't a disadvantage at all: there is not a single true dungeon in the whole of Arizona. So maybe you could put one of the two dungeons required by Granite in Arizona instead of putting them both in New Mexico, and additionally tie it into some other quest (perhaps Hecate?) since Granite's quest is not super likely to be discovered. Though giving the Painted Rocks their own section isn't as odd as the Twisted Hairs since you actually have to interact with them, so consolidation may not be necessarry. An alternative would be to consolidate Fort Cochise and the Rangers into one section since they are essentially the same thing and there's no real reason to split them other than to reach 9, or to just put the dungeon under the Granite section.

    As I said above it probably makes more sense (and was perhaps even the original intent of the writers) for the Painted Rocks to live in the Painted Desert, not Monument Valley.
    *Rule of threes, add in another form of suffering in addition to miscarriage and the illness of the chief. Leprosy?
    *Is Dasan supposed to be some kind of Dasein reference?
    *Didn't notice Medicine Stick before, nice. Have you considered giving other GRA unique weapons out? Nukabreaker could belong to Junkmaster, Embrace of the Mantis King could belong to the White Legs, Gehenna could belong to the Tar Walkers, etc.

    I suppose DoD holotape could also be a way past defenses, though of course it's very unlikely that a player would do this at that late a stage.
    *Just want to share what the Latin motto on the USSA seal means: "If I do not reach the stars, I will raise Hell." Felt appropriate.

    I think of everything in Arizona, this part is the one that deserves a second look the most, at least in the section actually about Ouroboros itself. In spite (or perhaps because) of the fact that we already know a lot about the Legion, and Hecate is arguably the big new thing in this campaign, I feel like the quests and info presented here are a lot less substantial than those for the Legion.

    For example - what do we learn about the city itself? 1) there's a tributary outside where vassals come to pay their respects and traders ply their wares. Pretty interesting, though nothing is done with it on the quest side. Would like to hear more about this. 2) there's a part of the city where men live 3) there's a part of the city where women live 4) there's a big snake altar with a bunch of naked people around it 5) there's a big fuck-pyramid. By comparison for the Legion, each section of Magnum Chasma has a fair amount of detail, quests specifically attached to it, and an NPC at its center.

    In terms of quests, the number is basically comparable: Magnum Chasma has eight quests, plus one from Caesar to bring him the head of Hecate. Ouroboros has eight total, including to kill Caesar. But the quality of quests in Ouroboros is, it seems to me, noticeably lower. Magnum Chasma's quest are detailed, centered around interesting setpieces, deal with aspects of the Legion, and are given by detailed characters other than Caesar (and in the case of Slave Runner, even has a personal element to it.) Let's look at Ouroboros quests:
    • A Bull Amongst Snakes: This quest is good, a murder mystery is always fun. The one thing I would say is that Caesar's quest to kill Hecate and Hecate's quest to kill Caesar should tie in to the respective spies - like in "I Put A Spell On You," at this highest level the identity of the spy should be revealed to you and they well help you kill their respective target.
    • A Single Drop: This quest feels pretty insubstantial compared to the Great Gila quest which is it's closest analogue, but it does have an interesting setpiece, and it does actually serve to illustrate something about Hecate.
    • Demon Slayer: This quest is quite boring. It's only interesting by dint of the fact that Deathclaws are fairly rare in this campaign, but otherwise the set piece isn't very interesting, there's not much to the quest, no character themes are introduced, and we don't learn anything new about Hecate or see any of her themes exhibited.
    • Raging Bulls: "Go here, kill these." All in the service of getting uniforms for a different quest, it should really be rolled into that one, no reason for it to be a separate quest.
    • Taming of the Bulls: This one, pretty good. It deals both with the fight against the Legion and allows the players firsthand to see the process of assimilation. It's essentially the equivalent of the Painted Rock quest, though I will say that makes it odd that the Gecko Skinners aren't elaborated on at all compared to the Painted Rock - which is perhaps more of a reason to have a "Tribes of Northern Arizona" section, or maybe even to replace the Twisted Hairs section with a Gecko Skinner only post.
    • Chain-Breakers: This one is fine, but insubstantial.
    • The Choked Snake: This one definitely has the most potential since it would actually allow the players to learn about tribal rivalries and see the sort of degenerate palace dramas worthy of any decadent empire. The one thing I would say is that it's odd to have two separate murder mysteries. Perhaps roll them together.
    • Death of Mars: Obviously necessary, but feels like kind of a cheat to count when it's not even marked as a quest for the Legion equivalent.
    I think the best fact that demonstrates this disparity between the two is the fact that the Legion post, which is focused almost entirely on Magnum Chasma its character and dynamics since we already know the backstory of Caesar and the Legion, is 7 pages. Excluding the stuff about the background and beliefs of Hecate and her confederacy, we only have less than 2 pages about Ouroboros itself.

    I also think there's a good opportunity for CODE integration here.

    Could be fused to rangers post, especially considering that all of the detail about taking Fort Cochise is located there. That could make room for a post about the Granite Dungeon.
    *Not crazy on prison aspect as a Wasteland tie in, I think I preferred it as a rough-hewn adobe fortress.

    In addition to how much I like your treatment in general, I've realized in future it provides the opportunity for someone to say "Fukushima Kama-Crazy"
    *Instead of a National Guard depot, maybe just make it a gun superstore or something. A lot of National Guard Depots throughout the project already.[/spoiler]
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
  12. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Nice idea on the first, and yes I'll definitely still be doing the latter.

    That make sense and is probably the actual reason for their naming. Makes sense they're Caesars "Old timers" too. In which case I'll move them there. Monument Valley could be the home of a major Twisted Hairs camp, perhaps. I remember when I camped at Monument Valley and watched the sunset I had this moment of imagining Ulysses with his flagpole sat watching the sunset himself, "The East" and I quite like incorporating that bit of imagination into my work.

    I quite like the Bull propaganda, it's a fan art for Fallout New Vegas and the strength in servitude is quite slave-esque I thought.

    Grandmaster makes more sense.

    Probably. Staffer or Scrappertown would be fine.

    Supermarket I was shopping at the day I wrote up Flagstaff.

    Cazadore just cause we're light on those in this campaign outside of random encounters.

    I load up a chess program on my computer and enter the player's moves. Then I make the moves the computer makes.

    I like all of these. Added.

    I don't want to do a tribes of northern Arizona section because it's implied there's dozens upon dozens. Hecate and Caesar have two dozen between them under their belt and they're just in northern Arizona alone. I think instead I will just focus on the Twisted Hairs more and give them more flesh.

    Yep they're in the Painted Desert now. Dasan I believe is just a Navajo name, and I might spread a handful of GRA weapons around but not too many just to keep it reasonable. Nukabreaker certainly works with Junkmaster's vibe.

    I'll give it a second look.

    This is a great idea.

    Yeah I'm not particularly happy about this quest either. Perhaps replace with one about roughing up/scaring a tribe into service.

    These would all be substantial in the context of running the game. Chain Breakers especially would be its own thing. As for the Gecko Skinners, they aren't being assimilated they're being besieged. They're a decently armed nothing Arroyo style primitive tribe that have been backed into a strategic corner and cut off by the Legion, who are waiting for them to starve or surrender. That's why the quest is vital, it breaks the Legion's siege.
    I deliberately didn't want to roll them together for the reason you listed. I think having petty drama and inter-conflict is more interesting than "the enemy spy did it".

    We'll see on formatting. Also we will have to agree to disagree. I like the Rangers a lot better in the Wasteland reference prison. Feels more right to me. Also adds some nice thematic "Prisoner"/prison stuff with the players. Their base of operations/home is itself a prison, or used to be

    True to both.
  13. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    Whatever goes there, make sure there are classically Western accents on it even moreso than the rest of the campaign since it's probably the single most iconic vista in Western media (

    Yeah this is what I was going to suggest. Definitely happy you're going with this over a series of INT rolls.

    Yeah I had imagined this as a problem. My proposed solution would have been to say "of course there are many tribes in Arizona" or some such and then list off a random itinerary of a number of tribe name, "The Vorts, the Montezuma, the Stone Trees, the Hidebarks, amid many others." But this would feel kind of cheesy and fair enough if you'd rather not. My personal preference would still be to explore something other than the Twisted Hairs since they don't really have any bearing on anything, but fair enough if you want to.

    One I thought of that I think dovetails with the faction themese is that Ouroboros has a waste problems. A tremendous amount of waste is produced by the hedonism, and the industrial scale of potion production is producing a lot of toxic waste. AThere's a big dumping pit in the back that's now infested with some kind of mutants. The quest itself deals with bullying some tribe specifically to make them take on all of this waste, turning their tribe into a dumping ground.

    Alternatively, it could be something personal that fleshes out Gaia or Sampson. I imagine Gaia will probably be a big presence in the murder mystery, and Sampson is of course sort of a joke character. Could maybe introduce someone else.

    Chain-Breakers I can see, but stealing some uniforms? Obviously there will be some depth of player approaches in attacking the camp, but I still feel this can just be rolled into the other one if not cut entirely in favor of something more interesting.

    Several possible solutions to this: 1) there is no spy, or at least they didn't commit the murder. 2) the spy has honey potted or manipulated someone off of tribal loyalties, and is perhaps further blackmailing them. Maybe in "I Put A Spell On You" fashion the person doesn't even know that they're being manipulated into an unwitting informant. I think taking this approach is more efficient, and simultaneously both demonstrates tribal palace drama and the Legion's spycraft/divide and conquer tactics.
  14. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    I understand that but I associate it more with the Navajo, probably because of my own experiences there. Although it's not ringing particularly right as the locale of the Twisted Hairs, so maybe it's where the Desert Rangers fall back to post-Cochise.

    The amount of tribes is just something that will come up naturally in the worldbuilding, much like the Gecko Skinners they're just name drops of these backward tribes that are caught up in this north Arizona battle zone, much like the off-mention of the "Burned Hands" in the Rangers section. There's no need for detail because truthfully these are the kind of pathetic backwards tribes that instigates Caesar in the first place. Much like Arroyo or Sulik's tribe they're just tent-dwelling savages without any real gimmicks. The bread and butter stock population of Arizona. Not worth wasting the effort on, IMO.

    People getting sick with rashes and stuff like that, tunnels are popping up throughout Ouroboros and food stocks are getting eaten and tainted by poisonous saliva. Turns out some kind of mutant creature has received further mutation from poison run-off and is running amok. Basically pest-control with some Doctor mystery thrown in.

    Your guess is correct. Sampson is the quest-giver in this area, I should clarify. It takes a bit of rep and luck to speak with Hecate herself.

    Yeah I'd planned to work out the murder mystery details pre-session and having the murderer be someone manipulated by the spy is a good twist and very Legion.
  15. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    @Hardboiled Android an idea for a quest at Painted Rock, because they're well armed and well located they're a real breach-point in the war. The Legion want them free of Hecate's influence so they stay neutral until it's safe to conquer them. Hecate wants them actively fighting the Legion for her.

    So, after the party steals the uniforms she orders you to false flag attack as the Legion and incite conflict, then return out of uniform to help the Daughters sell the idea of joining Hecate and warring with the Legion.

    Alternatively, enterprising players could convince them to actively trade with the Legion or even help them.
  16. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    Little far from Cochise, no?

    Though I would agree to me it doesn’t ring true as Twisted Hairs camp.

    With the final thematic element being that Hecate’s solution after the monsters are cleared out is to simply move the waste products of her hedonism and magic somewhere else, kicking the can down the road and driving further conquest, presented as a holy thing. The tribe you has to “persuade” living around some fabulously beautiful oasis.

    Makes sense. All the more reason to make one of the quests personal to him.

    So maybe just have the woman shouting bloody murder in general instead of spy?

    I like the idea but I’d think Hecate’s curse would be enough to drive them to action, no?
  17. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Just checked the map where I put Cochise and yeah. Well, I guess it's just a generic tribal home now, we'll call them the Monumentals or the Red Giants. Maybe that's the tribe Vulpes is from.

    Yep that'll do er.

    Maybe he wants to get his armor repaired and will enlist Repair PCs to help him do it. If not, capture a mechanic who can. Could result in a method of killing him with it looking like an accident by having his suit malfunction Iron Man 2 suit test scene style.

    Spy is a little more ear-catching. I imagine the way this plays out because of how players are they'll be convinced the pleasure-temple murder was connected to the spy and both storylines will become wonderfully entangled.

    Against Hecate? No because their tendency is isolationism and they're frightened of her sorcery. Against the Legion? In the future, maybe, but right now they haven't even convinced them to give basic tithe of crop and newborns yet.
  18. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    @Hardboiled Android also a thought on giving thee Twisted Hairs some meat on their bones: Perhaps instead of the Cochise Desert Rangers entering an alliance with the Legion, they enter an alliance with the Twisted Hairs? They're not slavers and taking back Cochise could still be the "canon" route if the turning point for the Rangers is the betrayal of the Twisted Hairs. The Twisted Hairs would have some contract you'd have to perform on the Rangers behalf first to show your dedication to the deal basically.
  19. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    Yeah this definitely works a lot better and makes sense geographically - the thrust of Ranger expansion (and Californian settlement in Arizona) is going to be the Colorado watershed and then via the Gila River up into Phoenix and environs, rather than the "Wild North" which will see much more scattered Ranger presence. So an alliance with the Twisted Hairs is just more pertinent.

    Though as to the slaver question - the Twisted Hairs would certainly be slavers to some level. The fact of the matter is virtually any pre-industrial (or I suppose in this case post-industrial) society is more likely than not to engage in some level of slavery. Maybe not a slave society and they don't make they're living by it, but no doubt to some extent they have and sell slaves. This will only increase over time as their ties to the Legion grow and they fight more wars and have more captives.
  20. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Because they're a powerful tribe who have been around the shop - you could say very much like the Legion when they've conquered their enemies they've forcibly absorbed them into their ranks. Another reason they stand by the Legion, they're not entirely different.

    I'm also writing up a dungeon - Sonora Air Force Base - home to "Project Phoenix" which is basically a huge fuck-off tower that was meant to shoot down missiles with laser beams ala House but government developed and a total failure. The base is largely scavenged but the Twisted Hairs want it because scaling the tower gives them a fantastic view of the region and the location of the base itself is great strategically for their travel purposes. It's also where Granite's first (second?) component is. Complication: It's a Deathclaw nest ala Quarry Junction. The players need to complete this dungeon to seal the Desert Ranger alliance.
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