After two centuries...

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by Delbert, Sep 16, 2015.

  1. Delbert

    Delbert Vault-Tec Employee

    47
    Sep 16, 2015
    EDIT: Whoops, wrong subforum.

    This is my first post btw.

    This thread has to do with the aging & deterioration of things, as well as the dwindling of pre-war resources.
    This only refers to the Bethesda games. Personally, as you most likely do also, I strongly prefer the Interplay games.

    I don't get it how in the Bethesda games pre-war food is so common and cars still color to them after two centuries of sitting in the wasteland.
    Also, how the hell do they still have pre-war cigarettes? It has been fricking two centuries!!!

    A lot of the buildings and such don't look like they're two centuries old and have been sitting in the middle of a post-nuclear wasteland.

    After two centuries, how is there still supplies sitting in places like supermarkets and other well-scavenged and well-travelled areas?

    This also relates to Fallout 4. I saw some gameplay, and banners in Concord from 200 YEARS AGO are still hanging, LET ALONE AFTER A GLOBAL NUCLEAR EXCHANGE.

    And still, a lot of the stuff looks like it is less than 200 years old and hasn't been in a wasteland for that long, too.

    But I guess it is "just a video game".

    Just had to get this off my chest.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015
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  2. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    This should be in the Fallout 3 section but yes it's bloody stupid. Just imagine it's only ten or less years after the nuclear exchange... kill anyone in the game who says different.
     
  3. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    A bit of a beaten horse, and slightly wrong forum, but hey, welcome! :D

    You're of course right. One of the major points of FO1 was how civilization had begun to restore itself even at an impressive rate, with cities functioning as organized city states allready, and in FO2 places like VC and NCR are not only perfectly rebuilt societies without a trace of war - but even modern and futuristic

    One could argue that rebuilt and futuristic society counters our romantic idea of "nuked out wasteland", but these are the original games we're talking about. The "nuked out wasteland" was supposed to step aside for civilization.
     
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  4. Radiosity

    Radiosity Writiosity

    464
    Sep 9, 2015
    See my signature for a series I'm writing on this basic subject. I'm writing about world building in games, and Fallout 3 was a perfect place to start because it's so laughably bad. I cover this and various other things (being written, four parts currently published).
     
  5. Vault Maker

    Vault Maker Vault-Tec Cartographer

    149
    Jun 27, 2006
    (We should just discuss this in terms of all the games, then the post in in just the right spot. It's what Harold would do.)

    Since the cities in the Beth games don't look like they were nuked, it kind of makes sense they can have shiny sparkly things and plentiful 2 century old supplies.

    Just because it doesn't make sense in a Fallout game isn't any reason to...oh, wait...

    If you really want to incorporate lots of food items into the game mechanics, then have them forageable/craftable like New Vegas, or (for an NCR kind of society) something currently being produced, besides booze, brahmin jerky, mutated fruit, and iguana bits. Something like pre-packaged artisanal jerky-wrapped fruit, marinated in a sauce made from an iguana bit reduction and booze, would be a great start.

    With enormous population losses (say 99%+) there would be a lot of stuff to find for a long time, but the farther out you look, the harder it would get.

    On the plus side, at least Beth didn't start setting games in the "Interplay Interregnum" (between FO1 and FO2), or even worse, pre-FO1. Though maybe the premise of 4 is a portent. Where the future games return to the setting's past, and Beth covers the earth with stomped butterflies.
     
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  6. Richwizard

    Richwizard So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Orderite

    Jan 18, 2010
    Superior tech in the pre war Fallout world. It was the 1950s version of Utopia. Everything is better made and lasts forever. Unfortunately for them the 1950s version of the Apocalypse happened.
     
  7. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    868
    Apr 7, 2014
    Which apocalypse? The one we see in Fallout 1 and 2. Or the apocalypse we see in Fallout 3 and possibly 4 where the east coast has yet to restart cities and food lasts forever and makes it as if the apocalypse happened yesterday?
     
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  8. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    They did have plasma rifles and power armor, so "they had a way of treating lumber so that it's really strong and resistant to the elements" isn't especially unreasonable. Particularly given that it's going to be dry and irradiated for a while (so you're not going to get much rot.) I mean, there are houses standing now that are >200 years old, and fixing them up is more a function of "redoing the wiring, plumbing, heating, cooling, and insulation" than keeping them from falling over.

    The thing about the 200 year old food is just a joke about twinkies lasting forever that's been taken too far.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
  9. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    868
    Apr 7, 2014
    Yeah, but even then your average wooden house depending on where it's at would rot away in just 50 to 75 years unless someone was keeping it up the entire time after the war. I think it's when you're in a wooded area or near a coast is where houses rot away the fastest. In the case of a desert like the Core Region, the sands eat them away.
     
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  10. Delbert

    Delbert Vault-Tec Employee

    47
    Sep 16, 2015
    Sorry for posting in wrong forum - but thanks for welcoming me to the community! I'm a bit alone in my interest for roleplay and Fallout where I live.
     
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  11. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    The worse part is that FO3 and FO4 keep insisting on having the game take place near where the bombs hit directly, the cinematic of the beginning of 4 seems to imply that the Nukes landed pretty close to the entrance of the Vault, at least close enough for the Shockwave to vaporize everyone standing on top of it..... yet when you get out of the Vault what do you see 200 years later? The fence is still standing, some kind of wheeled contraption next to the entrance still baby blue.... Lots of prewar banners too, and the place where you find Preston Gravy is covered in 4th of July decorations that somehow survived the nuclear fire and being left at the intemperie for 200 years + 3 Months because thebombs droppedon October, not on fucking July........ I think Bethesda just has an office rule to not give a shit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015
  12. Delbert

    Delbert Vault-Tec Employee

    47
    Sep 16, 2015
    I am highly perplexed as to how old 200-year-old stores still have pre-war food on the shelves after having been well-scavenged and well-travelled for two centuries, and as to how one eats 200-year-old food. It would be as if one of us were to eat some food from 1815.

    How is there terminals, fully-functioning, fully-powered, just sitting within buildings? They should be broken or taken by now. How are they powered?
     
  13. TheChosen1

    TheChosen1 Moving Target

    Nov 8, 2012
    Well you see...fallout is a survival and scavenging RPG. How else would you feel like a nuclear survivor if you couldn't loot old buildings for food?
     
  14. Delbert

    Delbert Vault-Tec Employee

    47
    Sep 16, 2015
    I'd feel like much more of a nuclear survivor within the context and time period that the Beth games take place if they made sense.
    They should've made Fallout 4 take place shortly after the Great War.
     
  15. Vault Maker

    Vault Maker Vault-Tec Cartographer

    149
    Jun 27, 2006
    When technological progress plateaus, engineers tend to keep busy with improving reliability. That's believable in the Fallout setting, but it tends to apply to manufacturing, especially machinery. I don't think I'd trust it for food.

    Both good points, at least for 80 years later. And that Twinkie bit that Bobcat Goldthwait did back in the 80s was awesome.

    On Point 1, I almost tried to run a calc for how long it takes the blast to get to the Vault door, then try to reverse engineer the bomb yield and distance, so I could check what the heat deposition would be on everyone standing there.

    Then Point 2 occurred to me, and I went back to targeting...other things.

    Beth assumed all the scavengers were so smart, they had worked for Beth. They'd go in the store and just sit down to masturbate to an issue of Grognak the Barbarian, and slowly starve in a puddle of their own bodily fluids, precious and otherwise.
     
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  16. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    868
    Apr 7, 2014
    in reality the food wouldve went completely bad in just 5 to 10 years. I could think that some terminals had EMP shielding so surving terminals depending where they are isn't too far fetched. Id guess they're powered off of some self preserving radioactive battery that last as long as the car engines. I mean Fallout 3 and 4 would really make sense if it was say 10 or 20 years after the great war. And I wish they'd stop making the Fallout series a complete parody and satire of post nuclear horror. I feel they fail to catch the serious aspect of the Fallout series but thats why we have Obsidian.
     
  17. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    Regarding the food, I think Obsidian tried to retcon it in New Vegas by pointing out that the pre-war stuff, while technically edible, tastes really awful so people would prefer to eat anything else (they're all more or less as nutritious as raw gecko, and the latter can be improved by cooking.) So it's conceivable that people scavenged all the better stuff from the store shelves and left the stuff that's too nasty to be worth the effort of carrying away. What exactly Bethesda thinks people were supposedly eating in the Capital Wasteland, I have no idea.

    Regarding the computers, the integrated circuit never really revolutionized computing in the Fallout universe, so the computers are still based on things like vacuum tubes and reel-to-reel tapes for storage. As has been pointed out elsewhere, when all else fails engineers do work on making things more reliable, so it's not absurd that they could come up with stuff like "vacuum tubes that don't corrode in hundreds of years." It's probably less absurd that they figured out a way to do that, than that they figured out how to make computers do all this stuff without the integrated circuit.
     
  18. Delbert

    Delbert Vault-Tec Employee

    47
    Sep 16, 2015
    I understand the computer thing completely - I already knew that - it is one of my favorite parts of Fallout, their technology.
    Even if they were still capable of functioning, parts still age and degrade just sitting (EDIT: Sitting without care in an old building in the middle of the wastes). It would need some repair, if it could even work at all. Connections might degrade or rust away, maybe even some form of bit rot would corrupt the data.
    Without the integrated circuit, components are more proprietary and specialized. The transistor only appeared much later than it did in our world (1947 in our world, not sure about Fallout). Desktop terminals use a mix of transistors and vacuum tubes in the Fallout world.
    Also, it wouldn't look as nice as it does in the games, all nice and clean. But, however, I did like how they designed the terminals.
    They probably wouldn't even be there, though - a scavenger is very likely to take a terminal if it is just sitting there.

    I'd enjoy the idea of computers being a valued treasure in some rural wasteland community, reserved only for the government, a doctor, or a scientist.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015
  19. TheChosen1

    TheChosen1 Moving Target

    Nov 8, 2012
    Indeed, Fallout 3 would work much better as a standalone set 20 years after the war.
     
  20. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Nah it would still need LOTS of rework on plot and writting in general.