ANDROIDS! - not the phone

Crni Vuk

Crni Vuk

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maybe this was even discussed already, if yes, please forgive me!

But I think it is somewhat a really interesting topic, and I am somewhat in the mod to write again a wall of text :D

The question is.

Androids in Fallout? Do they make sense? Yes? Why? No? Maybe!

whats your opinion?

This is what I think:

I believe the idea for it self is not "bad" at all. But one has to be somewhat lets say conservative. Androids (aka synthetic life form) are a known concept in science fiction, nothing new here really, but as far as I remember it was never a topic Fallout explored in detail or in the game.

To say this, the way how it was done in Fallout 3 was rather ... yeah. Not bad but rather something that feels "un-fallout" in my eyes. Maybe comparable with Blade Runner. But Blade Runner is a setting where Androids are part of the world, everyones life. The way how we see very advanced computers or technology today. There such concepts make sense. So when you have them in large numbers its not a problem. Because the world is already full of such high tech technology and thus its not out of place.

For a setting like Fallout I think a somewhat different approach would be better. Simply because the Fallout world never ever made a big thing out of Androids. Again, not as far as I remember. I would even go so far to say they didn't exist before F3.

Now what I mean is a concept more similar to Star Trek, but wait a min. before you roll with your eyes !

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I mean the concept that they are rare, not perfectly human (like in Blade Runner) and unique individuals. In Enterprise Data is the only known Android alongside his evil twin (now thats something for a story!). The idea behind Data was by Sung to create something like a Son. But that just by the way.

I think Fallout would in my eyes do better with a similar concept. Where it is more about the technology and some individual that can be actually clearly identified as android. Having a "Pseudo Blade Runner like" plotline just to give the game a feeling that its "deep" isn't really something that screams Fallout if you ask me. But some crazy or good scientist working on new technology? So sophisticated that not more then one type could be made? That sounds better then some kind of "army" or "nation" of androids. particularly when you consider a setting like Fallout, where you have communities with nothing more but spears and a few guns maybe to areas where if only rare but technology like laser, Plasma etc. is a known concept.

To many androids and the concept or unique idea of this kind of technology would be lost in my eyes. And Fallout is not a setting where androids are seen like lets say plasma weapons or power armor.


So while I think it CAN work, it depends how its done and explained.
 
Well, I don't think androids fit into the lore of Fallout very well. They're simply too advanced. While the Fallout universe depicts a very advanced world in some regards (fusion cells ffs) it is very much obsolete in other ways, mostly computers. Computers in Fallout were the size of rooms, at least the powerful ones. That's because in Fallout semiconductor microelectronics were just invented shortly before the War.
So androids (although Fallout 3 portrays them [the few that there are] as cyborgs with real skin, blood and even digestive systems) would be incredibly advanced in the world of Fallout. Too advanced in my taste, it doesn't feel like a „realistic“ continuation of established lore. They have to be post-war invention, and I can't suspend my disbelief enough to buy that someone would still have enough resources to develop a technology that does not have any immediate benefits.
I do agree that the concept of a unique and intelligent robot would be interesting depending on the way it would be handled.
However, I don't agree with mass produced humanoid robo servants in any way. Those don't make any sense, sorry. No matter how much I love Blade Runner (*caresses his Blade Runner Ultimate Box tenderly*), replicants are not very Fallout-y.
 
On the otherhand, Fallout has computers need the fucking rooms, but also has people robots, including some that float on a fucking rocket. I could buy androids on that level, but I don't think it'd really fit in with Fallout. Much like Hassknecht says.
 
yeah but human like robots at least with some kind of personality or character are not THAT silly for the setting if you ask me.

I mean there is in Fallout 2 the situation with Skynet which can be used as companion.

A more sophisticated plot in a new Fallout game could work. I mean a robot is a robot. As much as I love the old Fallout but I am somewhat open to new ideas.

But it depends how well done the plot is.
 
I guess?

Computers are the sizes of rooms... But they /are/ superior to ours in ways. The supercomputers of Fallout are, despite being less sophisticated, better than ours. And while I don't agree that mass produced androids are very good... I think that since the majority of, if any, come from the Commonwealth, a rich and advanced 'place', that it does fit a bit. Besides. No one said they were 'advanced'. And especially since there are only a few seen, they could be prototypes mainly. Besides. Real blood? Real skin? Real digestion systems? Making a respiratory system and digestion system isn't too hard, I think, in the Fallout universe. Especially if you have the money to just throw at the androids. We can artificially make real skin /right now/. For the respiratory all you need is a pump and tubes. For it to actually keep the skin alive? You somewhat have me there but... Fallout has weaponized plasma and lasers. It's not exactly real.
 
Before it was even mentioned as a plot point in a possible Fallout 4 I was already playing with an idea for androids in a Fallout setting.

But my idea was that these androids were more mechanical than organic, essentially very advanced mannequins with all their limitations.
And that it was very difficult to pass them off as real humans if you are in a close vicinity to them (you can clearly see where the head and the neck are attached to the body).

Furthermore these androids would be quite the opposite of Data or the android you encountered in Fallout 3 when it comes to intelligence and human behavior.
They would be quite 'dumb' for the lack of a better word because their internal computers/android brains aren't as sophisticated as found in more advanced robots and of course computers, being able to run a number of programs at the same time.

In the sense they would be more like a humanoid shaped Mr Handy than something you can have a really intelligent conversation with, complete with anecdotes or switching to a different subject because the android knows a relevant story.

They would also be pretty fragile as to make them look human the designers couldn't put on all kinds of armor or big components.

My idea for the designers to overcome the androids' limited intelligence was by networking their minds, having multiple processors work on situations and problems.
It makes them smarter but sometimes even more slower to react to sudden changes.

So Pre War androids, as long as they abide to the limits of robots in the Fallout universe are okay, but not really advanced almost organic like androids like the ones from Bladerunner.
 
I always harbored a strong dislike for androids.
They exist in reality, depending on definition, so... they aren't unthinkable in ways of sci-fi, especially futuristic sci-fi.
But I really dislike them :I
 
Androids? Nope, for me.
In a world burned to the ashes, where poor survivors are fighting for food, with the Brotherhood of Steel hoarding scattered pieces of pre-war technology and brahmin-driven caravans are roaming across the wasteland? Who would have constructed those androids? Sounds like a huge waste of resources. People desperately need more Highwaymans, not some fucking androids. :mrgreen:
 
They don't really in the way they've been used. Some underground railroad to protect them from Blade Runners? Who are hunting them dwn to use them as slaves? In fucking Fallout? It doesn't fit.

I also wouldn't go so far as to say that All Fallout Computers are better. They've managed to make somethings remarkable, but those were all basically ZAX supercomputers used in super special research facilities like Wes Tek and the Sierra Army Depot. Everything hasn't survived for the most part (I think terminals in FO3/NV are fucking dumb the way they've mostly been used. I don't buy so many computers sticking around and not being destroyed after so many years and shit.
 
But my idea was that these androids were more mechanical than organic, essentially very advanced mannequins with all their limitations.
And that it was very difficult to pass them off as real humans if you are in a close vicinity to them (you can clearly see where the head and the neck are attached to the body).
Click to expand...

K. A couple things. First off, androids are made essentially to /be/ humanlike. .-. Second. I also disagree with the underground railroad for androids. But that's just... What they decided to do.

valcik said:
Androids? Nope, for me.
In a world burned to the ashes, where poor survivors are fighting for food, with the Brotherhood of Steel hoarding scattered pieces of pre-war technology and brahmin-driven caravans are roaming across the wasteland? Who would have constructed those androids? Sounds like a huge waste of resources. People desperately need more Highwaymans, not some fucking androids. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

I don't believe they said who made the androids or when. But who wouldn't want an android in a world that's been ravaged? Hell. I could trick a bunch of raiders/Slavers into thinking it's a defenseless man then it turns out to be an amazing killing machine. It's a great way to get supplies. Or they could have been made before the war/were being made. And you always want to keep such high technology away from others.
 
mvm900 said:
K. A couple things. First off, androids are made essentially to /be/ humanlike.
Click to expand...

I try to keep that in mind but I also want to keep in mind that the Fallout's world of technology is very different than that of ours.

Things such as integrated circuitry appeared quite late in its technological development.
Also, androids are not immediately beings with an internal build up like ours.
It is usually the case that the outside should look human like, not that it also must have facsimiles of human internal organs and structures.
 
Look at the size and weight of water chip. Its entire purpose is controlling water purification in vault. Now imagine how huge that thing would be if it was responsible for controlling entire automaton and its thought process. Skynet required actual living brain tissue to download into. So no, no androids of any type in Fallout universe because they would contradict established lore hard.
 
An android would just be a smaller robot. With 'organics'. And I suppose it would be bigger, but didn't they have to make it fit the same model as the other actual 'humans'?
 
This is MIT we are talking about people. Let's see if they give a good enough reason or not before we completely disregard it. Think about Big MT. Look at all the high tech shit they came up with. A gun that ports you across the wasteland? Humans inside of small robot bodies? How can you say Androids would be impossible when you practically have them running around everywhere?

It's not a giant leap from human inside robot, to sentient life inside human like shell. Not to mention that their tech can be improving all the time with a place like the Institute. That's their niche. If Big MT can do it, I think the Institute could do similar stuff.

Now I really, really hate sticking up for Bethesda, but this is a non issue. The railroad sounds stupid as fuck. True. But we complained about Fallout 3 being too similar to the old games, but now we complain because things are too different. Are we those guys that complain about everything now?

With all the tech I have witnessed in the game so far, I honestly think this fits the setting. We have countless robots with human like personalities, robo-dogs, brains in jars, and the logical progression is fucking androids. I tend to reserve judgment until I have a reason to be pissed otherwise, I would be pissed off all the time like many other people.

Why make androids? Cannon fodder. Expendable assets with a small human population maybe? Slave labor. If you have the tech to do something, and do it easy, why NOT do it? The Institute sounds like it's full of mad scientist douchbags that like to experiment with shit like that. Why not use robots? Maybe because they suck at most the jobs they do already? Their brains will suffer from degradation over time, so why not improve on that design and make some bots that last longer?

From what we have heard so far, the Institute sounds like a haven inside a shithole. I bet they need androids to farm since humans would get killed out there by various dangers, whether it be radiation or bad guys. I'm willing to bet they have came up with some kind of super crop that survives in shitty environments too. The androids will suffer from repeated attacks and be treated like shit. Maybe they will throw in some biblical slave narrative while they are at it. LET MY PEOPLE GO! Now this is all speculation of course. I guess I'll wait and see how things turn out.
 
It's not unreasonable to have Androids, as cybernetics and cyborgs are in Fallout, as well.

My only objection has been their relation to the gameplay and mechanics, as well as their explanations in the story. We're told androids like Armitage are far stronger than any human, yet he goes down like any one else when you have the opportunity to kill him. He and Harkness both bleed when killed, and you can even eat them with the Cannibal perk.

So, when we are talking about androids in Fallout, there is no explanation for them at this point. But what I want to see is a reasonable explanation for them. Are they synthetic humans with a synehetic genetic sequence and synthesized organic flesh, in the same way the Replicants of Blade Runner are made? Or are they robots like Data covered with a flesh-like but very artificial material?

Given Bethesda's track record, I doubt there will be a satisfactory answer, but I imagine that it will get a big hand-wave in an effort to be more like sci-fi movies of the 50s.
 
I don't think having androids and cyborgs is that much of a problem assuming you do it right. Hell you become a cyborg in Old World Blues. Still it could have been done better in Fallout 3. It really comes down to how it is implemented.
 
My idea for the designers to overcome the androids' limited intelligence was by networking their minds, having multiple processors work on situations and problems.
Click to expand...

Wait. Are you saying you would hivemind the androids? :shock:

Holy shit. Robust machine-men working in perfect but sluggish coordination... terrifying. Uncanny Valley out of the ying yang, man.
 
Also, keep in mind the literal definition of Android... 'Andr' meaning man. So if it looks like a man and functions like a man to some extent, then it fits.

Have we all but forgotten Isaac Asimov? I, Robot and most of his android works were made in the 1950's.
Bethesda ain't smart, but I still have hope- I don't doubt that the aesthetic and features of Asimov will be very implemented.

Just look how close they stuck to the 50's aesthetic and feel with fallout 3- almost too much.

So, I think we can expect the bulky, chrome robot men of the 50's all over the place, supplemented by the like of Harkness. (One quest I actually liked in Fo3, think that some good shined through there)
 
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