Anti-Americanism- at all time high!
- Thread starter welsh
- Start date
I don't like the US as an entity, but i appreciate it is far, far better than other potential world powers which it's existence keeps minimized. Most yanks i have me in person have been decent people. A bit of hatred will do the US some good, maybe they will finally realise that Muslim countries don't want to be liberated in the name of democracy...
Wooz said:
anyway, me and my friends have stopped bashing americans. that was kind of "in" in intellectual circles for some time 3 years ago. alsoplustoo it is hard to "hate" a country when you know quite a lot of americans who are way smarter than the average "i studied sociology for liek 10 semesters so now im smart" intellectual.
America HAS been loved by many nations for quite a while. Apart from that it HAS been admired for quite a while.
But that was mostly after the War for American Independence (idealism) and during the Cold War (they protect us from those evil Soviets) / after WW2 (because the yankees played cavalry, like in the good old Wild West flicks).
Anti-Americanism has been pretty latent ever since the 1970s or so, though. The "all-time high" isn't a sudden spike, it's just a small increase, years after the actual spike (Iraq War, Evangelicals, PATRIOT Act and all that).
It's had its ups and downs obviously. There was a huge drop during the German re-union, for example -- because American involvement was considered a major component. Nowadays most Germans want the Wall back, though, so that's not a factor anymore.
So what's the news, anyway?
Obama seems to be a good anti-dote, like Kerry and Gore were before him, so if (when?) he wins, the anti-Americanism will go down again. Whether he's a good politician doesn't have much to do with that -- all he has to do is appear less bigot than George W., which shouldn't be too much to ask.
Bush really is the problem for American international reputation right now. It can only get better, now that he's leaving for good.
But that was mostly after the War for American Independence (idealism) and during the Cold War (they protect us from those evil Soviets) / after WW2 (because the yankees played cavalry, like in the good old Wild West flicks).
Anti-Americanism has been pretty latent ever since the 1970s or so, though. The "all-time high" isn't a sudden spike, it's just a small increase, years after the actual spike (Iraq War, Evangelicals, PATRIOT Act and all that).
It's had its ups and downs obviously. There was a huge drop during the German re-union, for example -- because American involvement was considered a major component. Nowadays most Germans want the Wall back, though, so that's not a factor anymore.
So what's the news, anyway?
Obama seems to be a good anti-dote, like Kerry and Gore were before him, so if (when?) he wins, the anti-Americanism will go down again. Whether he's a good politician doesn't have much to do with that -- all he has to do is appear less bigot than George W., which shouldn't be too much to ask.
Bush really is the problem for American international reputation right now. It can only get better, now that he's leaving for good.
Ashmo said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, im sorry but are you sure your saying they want the old dictatorial regime back? That they miss cold war? If they miss it so much they can go visit China. It has the greatest of all walls and im sure that would act as nice replacement for their nostalgia. 
there is a certain fraction which wants the wall back and THEN be on the right side of that wall. another fraction wishes the old system to return, so they dont have to make any own decisions at all. most of the latter have been overwhelmed by the freedom of the bundesrepublik ending without a job, money and perspective.
anyhow - strange thing is that many germans totally underestimate how a new american presidency will impact europe.
anyhow - strange thing is that many germans totally underestimate how a new american presidency will impact europe.
welsh
Junkmaster
Generally I concur with what Ashmo is saying. My gut feeling is that one of the reasons why people hate America is because its not what it could be, or what it should be.
In a sense, its a reflection which matches what a lot of Americans thing. There are a lot of Americans who aren't happy with the way things are in the States. Torture, secret prisons, financial crisis, crooks, and Katrina are all additional problems, then you can factor in the Iraq War.
In a sense, its a reflection which matches what a lot of Americans thing. There are a lot of Americans who aren't happy with the way things are in the States. Torture, secret prisons, financial crisis, crooks, and Katrina are all additional problems, then you can factor in the Iraq War.
First of all, it's allways funny when the 'winners', of WW2, are declaring the sarcrifices of the victims and sacrifices as irrelevant, and that only their own did matter,.. Man i really wish i could do that too... But as german i guess, i can't do this.
So i would say, no country, not even america, would have put the Axis-forces down alone.
Did you ever heart of the wall, and what it was???
The 'Wall' as we germans talk of it, stays for the division of West- and East-Germany. West Germany was democratic and an close ally of USA and so on (you could say a thankfull lackey of the USA).
Otherwise it's the Mauer wich stood in Berlin (you can still see parts of it), but as said, it's as a synonym for the division.
So if some german says he wants the wall back, he means the division between germany, and therefore also that a lot of things that were done with it should be as the old days.
East-germans say in the old days the all had at least some job and something to eat and often things that got to do with distorted memories.
West-germans claims that the receeding economy growth, and the downfall of the social economy (and a lot of national assurances) is a result of the reunification from the 90's. But there are also some distorted things, that surely weren't better in the old days....
Most of the germans who claim that they want the wall back are western germans, at least the big german magazine 'Spiegel' is often claiming that.
I could go on, on it... but i think that should be enough
----
Why does everybody now seem to hate amercia?
Maybe because of better media today? - You hear a lot more of bombed wedding-parties and such today, than you heard before (Vietnam was just the beginning of such problems).
Also USA is still not signing treaties that a lot people think of as important (Kyoto protocol, and some human right things). Also because of the war on Iraque and Afghanistian wich weren't reall legimitate by the UN, as far as i remember (the one against Afghanistan might have been).
Also the new conflict course with russia (SDI and such), is somewhat of a problem...
So there are simply reasons to be critical about the american goverment. It's really not about american people, but about their goverment.
Sure you often have people talking about american stereotypes (stupid gun-blazing cowboys, wich also often hit their allies) and such bullshit, but i think that's typicall for every country. I mean we germans are often protayed either as villians (Die Hard and such) or as thick somewhat simple-minded beer drinking, leather-trousers wearing people and such
So i would say, no country, not even america, would have put the Axis-forces down alone.
Did you ever heart of the wall, and what it was???
The 'Wall' as we germans talk of it, stays for the division of West- and East-Germany. West Germany was democratic and an close ally of USA and so on (you could say a thankfull lackey of the USA).
Otherwise it's the Mauer wich stood in Berlin (you can still see parts of it), but as said, it's as a synonym for the division.
So if some german says he wants the wall back, he means the division between germany, and therefore also that a lot of things that were done with it should be as the old days.
East-germans say in the old days the all had at least some job and something to eat and often things that got to do with distorted memories.
West-germans claims that the receeding economy growth, and the downfall of the social economy (and a lot of national assurances) is a result of the reunification from the 90's. But there are also some distorted things, that surely weren't better in the old days....
Most of the germans who claim that they want the wall back are western germans, at least the big german magazine 'Spiegel' is often claiming that.
I could go on, on it... but i think that should be enough
----
Why does everybody now seem to hate amercia?
Maybe because of better media today? - You hear a lot more of bombed wedding-parties and such today, than you heard before (Vietnam was just the beginning of such problems).
Also USA is still not signing treaties that a lot people think of as important (Kyoto protocol, and some human right things). Also because of the war on Iraque and Afghanistian wich weren't reall legimitate by the UN, as far as i remember (the one against Afghanistan might have been).
Also the new conflict course with russia (SDI and such), is somewhat of a problem...
So there are simply reasons to be critical about the american goverment. It's really not about american people, but about their goverment.
Sure you often have people talking about american stereotypes (stupid gun-blazing cowboys, wich also often hit their allies) and such bullshit, but i think that's typicall for every country. I mean we germans are often protayed either as villians (Die Hard and such) or as thick somewhat simple-minded beer drinking, leather-trousers wearing people and such
welsh said:
Biggest issue in US minds is the economy, taking 42% according to cnn.
Iraq is second at a wopping 24%
Healthcare, a huge 12%
Terrorism 11%
and Imigration at 8%
Just seemed like you were making it out that Iraq was the tail that waves the dog. Especially since there isn't enough reporting on Iraq anymore that I need to talk to soldiers coming back to get any reliable news.
As for you fucks who think american soldiers have the mentality of going out to fuck up some sand niggers. Fuck you. Go talk to some soldiers who've been there and see what they think.
Anyway. My two cents on this part.
Bad_Karma said:
I just wanted to repost this because I agree with it very much.
And Afghanistan was ok'ed by the UN
Iraq... ummmmm sorta.
New conflict with russia over SDI? I really never understood this conflict. Why not develop their own and make all ICBM's obsolete?
Besides economy, am I missing something? Isn't making nukes obsolete a good thing?
The SDI think is quite simple... i mean we still live in M.A.D. times (mutually assured destruction, i think it was).
So even if russia isn't any longer a real world-power, they still want to have the security that america won't use Nukes, because they would be nuked too.
And i would say Russia and America, but also a lot of other countries who are located near Russia don't like each other that much. So there's a bit of fear.
If russia would also try that, it would either lead to a new weapon race, or a russian president wich would have to admit, that they wouldn't be able to do this race, wich somewhat of a political blamage i think. Not good to blamage a political enemy, at least not in such a situation...
By the way, another problem is, that at least in german media, the military strategy of america is shown as being real bad. In our media it mainly seems as if this strategy don't emphasize on helping the civilians and being cautious in terms of civil losses and such.
And that's simple fuel for rebels.
To go a bit over the top with 2 examples, neither in Vietnam, nor in Poland (WW2) did Acts of Revange and strangulation on and of the civilists help....
So as german i think it's a pretty stupid strategy.
But that's media coverage, as far as i unterstand it, our troops/politicans are gaining a reputation of being sissies, for not having/giving a "real" 'combat mandate'.
So even if russia isn't any longer a real world-power, they still want to have the security that america won't use Nukes, because they would be nuked too.
And i would say Russia and America, but also a lot of other countries who are located near Russia don't like each other that much. So there's a bit of fear.
If russia would also try that, it would either lead to a new weapon race, or a russian president wich would have to admit, that they wouldn't be able to do this race, wich somewhat of a political blamage i think. Not good to blamage a political enemy, at least not in such a situation...
By the way, another problem is, that at least in german media, the military strategy of america is shown as being real bad. In our media it mainly seems as if this strategy don't emphasize on helping the civilians and being cautious in terms of civil losses and such.
And that's simple fuel for rebels.
To go a bit over the top with 2 examples, neither in Vietnam, nor in Poland (WW2) did Acts of Revange and strangulation on and of the civilists help....
So as german i think it's a pretty stupid strategy.
But that's media coverage, as far as i unterstand it, our troops/politicans are gaining a reputation of being sissies, for not having/giving a "real" 'combat mandate'.
I'm gona make a new thread for the SDI topic. Because, it baffles me so much.
I live in England, an apathy ridden country towards far left politics and a religion; thank fuck.
Iraq was sorta approved by the UN? Funny take on history, it was categorically frowned up, the countries involved lambasted, and they were right to not approve, after all, they arranged the inspections that confirmed no WMDs.
600,000+ dead Iraqis, and American grunts don't have that aforementioned mentality? For real? Those rose tinted glasses you're wearing seem to be distorting your view of things.
Iraq was sorta approved by the UN? Funny take on history, it was categorically frowned up, the countries involved lambasted, and they were right to not approve, after all, they arranged the inspections that confirmed no WMDs.
600,000+ dead Iraqis, and American grunts don't have that aforementioned mentality? For real? Those rose tinted glasses you're wearing seem to be distorting your view of things.
duffers said:
Hahhahahahah bite me.
My rosey glasses came off when I stopped listening to the news and people like you and started listening to the people who are actually there and reading history and factual accounts and reports.
How many of those Iraqi civilians where killed by carbombs? How many where killed when insurgents opened fire on elected officials? How many were mistaken for terrorists because they were waving guns in the air celebrating?
I've known american soldiers who've shot civilians. I've never met an american soldier who did it intentionally.
As for WMD's in Iraq. No there wern't any. Bush lied to us to get at the oil! Just like Clinton did in 98 when he bombed iraq! AND SO DID BRITTAN! GERMANY! RUSSIA! SO DID THE UN! SO DID I WHEN I WAS SITTING ON MY TOILET IN 98 WONDERING WHY WE DIDN'T INVADE! ITS A C-O-N SPIRACY! or it was a police state that was notoriously hard to spy on and also refused to allow inspectors in repeatedly. Stop using the no WMD's in Iraq to make the war unjustified. It's not easy to know your making a mistake until you've already done it.
We've been bombing Iraq since the gulf war because we thought they had WMDs. In case you haddn't noticed.
I don't your point, Ah. Are you defending USA's fuckups?
Less that I'm defending our fuck ups and more I'm pounding out bad arguments and bashing.
Germany's only a lackey,... so please stop pointing toward us for bombing someone... i mean for selling weapons of all types, or building chem-factories to anyone who had enough money, and wasn't counted toward USA's direct enemies, no problem.
But all wars we participated in after the WW2 were lackey-services for the USA (or did i miss something?).
Only recently our gouverment is evolving some spine
Also by the way, the germany didn't take part in the last iraque war... I'm so proud on our politicans *Cough cough*.
But all wars we participated in after the WW2 were lackey-services for the USA (or did i miss something?).
Only recently our gouverment is evolving some spine
Also by the way, the germany didn't take part in the last iraque war... I'm so proud on our politicans *Cough cough*.