Anyone else tired of the old factions?

Discussion in 'Future Fallout Game Discussion' started by Octagon, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Octagon

    Octagon First time out of the vault

    Aug 1, 2014
    I for one, unlike many a BOS fanboy, would rather see completely new factions in the next Fallout game, not just rehashes of the ones that we've seen multiple times. I'd rather not see NCR again, we've seen quite enough of them for a while, Enclave is a no as well, they've been beaten time and time again, they're tired old bad guys, but above all, PLEASE don't put the Brotherhood in the next game! They've been done to death and I'm tired of people gushing over how great they are. (And they're not all that great, they're a crazy, backwards cult) People love their armor, and their appearance in every single game. But it's actually a possibility that people other than the Brotherhood or Enclave might have power armor, or even (gasp) T51b. Sorry if I come across as really irritable in this post, but I really don't want to see the same old factions again and again. I'd be alright with Legion, because we really didn't get the full picture of their society, and they've only been in one game, unlike the factions mentioned above. If the situation allows for it, of course.

    Agree? Disagree? Lemme know!
  2. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I don't think you would find much disagreement here.
    I liked how FNV continued the West coast and NCR's storylines but know that we know how that has turned out I wouldn't mind seeing a Fallout game set in a different locale with different factions (though I don't mind if Ghouls and some Super Mutants showed up, some, not an army), governments and so on.

    I was playing myself with a concept I call Fallout Texas which takes place in that state.
    A few elements from the West coast and previous games could show up such as the Caesar's Legion that is responsible for a lot of destruction and chaos before the start of the game, a Ghoul who may or may not be a NCR Ranger, and some Super Mutants that were former Legion slaves (or immigrated to the Texas Wasteland before the Legion arrived), but for the rest new faces

    Rather than unified or being unified under one government there would have been powerful city states/nations such as the Lone Star Confederacy which bases its origins in the Confederate States of America (but with Fallout twists) and the System, Post Nuclear communism founded by Chinese POWs who intermingled with locals, who compete with each other for the hearts and minds of the people.
    There was also San Antonio, an emerging city state that was founded with help of the New Texas Rangers before it got wiped out by the Legion.

    There would also have been a clash between science and religion; the Followers of the ATLANTIS, a para military transhumanist organization composed of cyborgs that are led by an Artificial Intelligence who believe that instead of rebuilding the world in the old image that humanity should move on. (unlike the Brotherhood of Steel they deal and trade in technology, and almost everything is for sale as long as people can pay it, only things they don't sell are weapons of mass destruction)
    And the Angels of the Apocalypse, a warped military Christian organization who wish to unite every under one faith and cleanse the world of science and technology.

    And last there would be a clash between Law and Order and organized crime/right of the strongest; the New Texas Rangers who like their Desert Rangers counterparts wish to bring order and safety to the wasteland, and the Black Fist, a crime cartel that seeks to benefit from the re emerging civilization by providing alcohol, drugs, gambling, and prostitution, and is involved in matters such as gun running and racketeering. (interesting enough the Black Fist does keep raiders and slavers in check)

    And there would have been 'forbidden' locations such as the Corpse, the ruins of Corpus Christi that are now being overgrown by a toxic mutant jungle (the Bloom), and Robot City, a futuristic 'city of tomorrow' that is built on the ruins of Austin and inhabited by machine intelligences that wish to remain isolated from the rest of the wasteland.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
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  3. Sickle

    Sickle First time out of the vault

    Jul 16, 2008
    Hell yes! Give us something new. The Far Go Traders and Gun Runners are OK, but the rest can go rot in the wastes.
  4. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Carbon Dated and Proud

    Nov 26, 2007
    Of course! (All of those factions were supposed to be localized to the West Coast.)

    Bethesda should have invented a new IP on the East coast, to go along with its [unwelcome] new gameplay. They should not have erroneously used the Enclave, or bothered with the BOS, nor recycled the whole FEV supermutant plot. IMO all of that should have been discarded (along with FO:Tactics really).
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I still like Fallout Tactics for what it is (and elements of FOBOS), but I can understand why its plot is difficult to reconcile with Fallout 1 and 2's plot.
    To me Fallout 1, 2 and Fallout New Vegas are the general canon (I do wish it had been Van Buren instead of FNV but there is little point in continuing on that)
  6. 5545Trey

    5545Trey Underground Deviant

    Jun 25, 2014
    Same here. Although it would be no surprise to me if most of the old factions were in the next Fallout game.
  7. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    I wouldn't have to have the same factions set in stone or being dumbed down.
    But if those faction know a good evolution, i would be happy with it.

    For instance, i know there is complains about the BOS, but when i see them in Fo1, FoT and FoNV, i see some nice step, with the birth, rise and fall of that faction. About Enclave/Unity in Fo1-Fo2-FoNV, you have the faction at their prime, then how the survivors live after their fall. We saw the rise of the NCR, it might be interesting to see them falling, how town start to gain independance from them.

    In Fo3, for instance, it seem that they dumbed down a lot the super-mutants, copy-pasted Fo2 Enclave, while removing a few layers. I don't see the point in having them since there is no sense of progression at all. It seems totally a filler chapter on their faction history, and nobody love fillers.

    Fo3 BOS, on the other hand, while not being awesome at all, chose to emphasis the conflict between the two side of the BOS. In Fo1, you learned to know them, but they were on the good side. FoT shown the potential of the faction to go in various different path, some being very bloody. Fo3 shown the potential of internal conflict because of these differents views and FoNV exploited that potential with the necessary layers. While Fo3 BOS wasn't great, it participated on the progression of this depiction.
    About FoT, sure, they added good factions like the reavers, the beastlords and the calculator's army, but the best gray faction was the already know brotherhood. They also handled well the Super-mutants, since their ultimate plan was only to make babies.

    In short, i don't see the point of saying "i don't want to see those guys again". It depends on how it is handled.

    On the other hand, i find totally necessary to have not only new faction, but new important factions in each new episodes, as they allow the dev to try différent angles and it shake a bit players expectations. But that doesn't mean removing all old factions, as long as they are handled well and evolve a bit. It was a shame that Fobos & Fo3 were so lazy about it. Every other Fo managed to do it.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
  8. Emperor

    Emperor Simplesmente Rajuma

    Aug 4, 2013
    Talking about remnants, I always wondered what happened to the survivors of the Unity/ CoC. How they adapted after The Master defeat? Does the super mutants are still with them? or they simply disbanded? They can make an interisting faction if done right.
  9. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    About the unity >
    All the super-mutants you meet in FoT-FoBos were in the Unity in the past.
    Fo2 introduces 2nd generation super-mutants in the timeline, but those were just in Mariposa and most were slaughtered. Every other SM were members of the unity.
    90% of the regular super-mutants and 100% of the nightkin you meet in FoNV were members of the Unity.

    About the Children Of The Cathedral >
    It is assumed they disbanded or fled north, during the only dialog that mention them in Fo2.
    Tabitha radio mention that the normal humans that previously followers of the Master (CoC) were authorized to come into Black Mountain for Centaur's feeding purpose. It doesn't confirm, but doesn't negate the existence of the group.

    But on the other end, it is very unlikely. The core of the Unity/CoC was making Super-mutants. The project stop with the destruction of the vats, the death of the Master and the majority of his chain of command. The remants that were organized enough to sustain wars were defeated in FoT/FoBOS. Only small groups remains, mainly divided between those who want steatlth boys, (Davison) those who want to live in peace with normal humans, (Marcus) and those who just want to be left alone.(Tabitha)
  10. General Garbage

    General Garbage First time out of the vault

    Feb 22, 2014
    I read your Fallout: Texas thread and the idea is very nice, very down to earth.

    Now for the more wacky clash of technology and religion:

    I thought of something like that, too (not in the same way though)! I think the Commonwealth (with MIT and thinking machines) would be a great place to have that happen. In my idea the Followers of the ATLANTIS (are they quasi-religious themselves? seem to me) are called 'The Subsistence of Zero and One', a radical faction of synthetic humans, who believe in their own (the machine's) superiority (and are right in a way) over humans (who they deem machines also, but lesser ones), whom they enslave. The Christian 'Angels of the Apocalypse' I called 'The Testimony of Vis Anastasis' and they're opposed not to all of technology, but to robotics and androids as they deem them evil creations that harm man's position as the last worthy creation of god and heirs of His earth.

    Also they wouldn't be the main battling factions, but rather pieces of a chaotic mosaic, that after a great event (the demise of the Institute's hegemony) battle for supermacy. The Subsistence is quite young actually and they betrayed the now shattered Railroad.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  11. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    The Followers of the ATLANTIS are religious to a degree, some of their members do see ATLANTIS as a prophet or divine.
    Though ATLANTIS itself objects against this idea, it sees itself more as a guide or companion to humanity than some man made machine god.
    It mostly ended up as the leader of the Followers because they themselves were sick of failing human leadership that had led to all this mess to begin with.
    It was also the only intelligence to them that actually had a plan to rebuild the world.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  12. H3rw00d1

    H3rw00d1 I should, but I won't

    Jul 31, 2014
    I'm interested in what could become of Reilly's Rangers, we only see them during one quest and I think we should see more of them. They should of had a mini-story arc about Reilly's Rangers going up against the Talon Company. The two factions are underdeveloped enough that they COULD be considered "new" factions for a new Fallout game. Two cool but underdeveloped factions going against each other and adding story to them in the process? I think that'd be a win-win situation. I hope that comes up in the next Fallout, it's not like the two factions were weak enough to burn out. Supposedly Fallout 4 will take place in Boston, it's close enough to the CW that they could totally show up.
  13. Cave Bear

    Cave Bear First time out of the vault

    Apr 20, 2013
    You know what I want to see as a faction?
    Some sort of faceless, dystopian, mega-corporation.
    It's been centuries since the bombs fell. Let's see industry return and wreck shit.
  14. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    First of all, that would conflict with the setting.
    Second, Mr House kind of represents that, no one outside the player knew if House was a real person or some machine intelligence.
  15. H3rw00d1

    H3rw00d1 I should, but I won't

    Jul 31, 2014
    That would just cause the Fallout setting turn into modern times. The only difference would be giant mutated creatures running around in an unmaintained United States. :lol:
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  16. TheChosen1

    TheChosen1 Moving Target

    Nov 8, 2012
    No, Fallout would just become a lot more cyberpunk.
    If done well (like the gameworld being a huge city, divided into different zones controlled by unique factions with some ability to leave for the wastes) then it could be fun.
  17. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    On the other hand, the level of technology/population/civilization should be improved.
    People just can't sit down and do nothing forever.
    They are very late already IMO.
  18. H3rw00d1

    H3rw00d1 I should, but I won't

    Jul 31, 2014
    Yeah but what like Dutch Ghost already said, Mr. House already represents big business. Also I don't find the idea of another faceless mega-corp being a big player in the story all that tasteful, it's been there, done that.

    A huge city being controlled by other factions would be interesting though. But it would have to be a big city, like Washington DC's size in F3 (one of the few things I liked about F3 was DC was sized like a real city, the city of New Vegas was reasonably sized but not THAT big). Maybe it could be like you could only ally yourself with up to two of those factions, and the others you'd have to help those faction resolve their differences and take over the rest of that city.
  19. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Gyro Captain

    Dec 11, 2013
    I think it would be interesting to have the NCR collapse, with only remnants left here and there - aging Rangers who still harbor the old world values of democracy.

    But rather than a megacorporation, I'd be more interested in some kind of Neo-Feudal system developing out of some of the larger and better armed gangs: war band leaders would offer protection to towns in exchange for extracting food, supplies, and possibly people (in the form of slaves). Sort of like the Legion, but without the ridiculous outfits, the cartoon villain level of violence and misogyny, and with a slightly higher tech level. Aesthetically, these groups could look more like some of the settlements in FO1, with smaller, poorer fiefdoms looking like Junktown and stronger "kingdoms" looking more like The Boneyard.

    This would represent a social evolution beyond the raiders and scattered settlements we've seen thus far, but in a direction away from Old World models of organization like representative democracy, high tech capitalism, etc.
  20. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Personally I am still against the collapse of the NCR in order to 'reset' the setting.
    Slowing them down, fine, just turn the clock back a century I object against.

    Rather explore other parts of the US wasteland, far away from the Core Region.
    There are probably some fiefdoms out there.