Anyone else tired of the old factions?

[naossano]

I don't want the setting to reset at all. I want evolution toward electricity, public transportation, more vehicles, the world moving forward.
People just don't sit around doing nothing in centuaries.

Personnally i was pretty disapointed that the level of technology/civilization wasn't even higher in FoNV, considering the evolution between Fo1 & Fo2. (FoBos & FoT were earlier in the timeline, they can get a pass)

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Well I can understand why they did not do that naossano, as that would sort of 'break' Fallout (I can't explain it better in words right now), having such a big leap.
That is why I think that the games should always play 'on the frontier' so to speak, or beyond, where civilization hasn't rebuild in such a large way, there not being any large or unifying governments yet.

Had the Core region for example being accessible in FNV I myself would have made the settlements become more and more 'rebuild' or 'organized'.
Don't immediately think cars and skyscrapers everywhere yet (something like that would only happen over centuries if progress is allowed to continue), but you start to see more infrastructure you don't see outside the core regions; towns and cities having electricity and running water that doesn't always depend on locals sources such as fusion cells and water wells (the NCR rebuilding powerlines and canals/water pipes, setting up filtration stations)
Towns and cities look less 'messy' and broken; not so much broken walls and junk anywhere or hodgepodhe buildings. Material starts being reused and settlements are cleaned out.

The Hub for example would be a very different place than it was in Fallout 1, larger, perhaps a bit more late 19th century/early 20th century.
There would be more cars and trucks for those who could afford it (fusion cells are still rare) and definitely more brahmin pulled carts.

Shady Sands would basically be the best of NCR's architecture and technical skills as well as what they managed to recover from the old cities.

Outside their big walls there would still be ruined places, mutant creatures and some raider (not everyone joined the recovery effort) but with increasing NCR patrols and growing of settlements these are slowly driven out.

Still places like Los Angeles/The Boneyard will take decades if not centuries to rebuild, the NCR simply doesn't have the resources and money to do such a big rebuilding project, instead preferring to do it from the 'inside' by having Adytum slowly expand and replace the old Los Angeles. (places like the Cathedral Crater will probably never be resettled within several human lifetimes).

 

[H3rw00d1]

I want evolution toward electricity, public transportation, more vehicles, the world moving forward.

Where would they even get fuel for the cars anyway? There may be some oil still out there but I don't think there's enough for bringing vehicles back into public norm. They'd need eco-friendly cars or something of the like. Looks like the Fallout world will have to get used to Prius's.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Fusion cell powered cars, they were around before the war, remember?
I am pretty sure the technology to recharge those still exists.

 

[H3rw00d1]

Fusion cell powered cars, they were around before the war, remember?
I am pretty sure the technology to recharge those still exists.

Even then, I highly doubt cars would still become as common as they used to be. I'm pretty sure governments like the NCR have better things to use their factories for than building cars, what with the roads the way they are and perhaps the lack of resources. This would mean you'd have to build one from the ground up or rebuilding an already derelict one, I don't know if the wastelanders would be interested in doing such a big project themselves though.

The cars have probably already been scavenged for parts anyway and the wastelanders probably have better things to do and better things to spend their caps on then looking for non-essential car parts. Besides, I don't think anyone would want to tinker with something that creates a mini nuclear explosion if you so much as poke it with a stick.

Although the Highwayman turned out okay so...

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Oh I don't think cars will ever become common again in the Fallout universe.
Like you said, there might be salvaged cars and trucks, especially used by larger organizations and governments such as NCR (perhaps even the rare APC or tank), and perhaps some manufacturing of new cars and tracks, but never to the quality of before the war again.

My idea is that if before the war, when luxury items and technology were more common and easier to manufacture, and they could not really deal with the energy crisis in time that there won't be a similar 'golden age' like that again.
Whatever will eventually rise up in the centuries afterwards might become somewhat like the old world super powers but there won't be a recovery like in for example Star Trek's Earth where eventually there were many flying vehicles, transporters, and even easy space travel. (I would not rule out that there would ever be a space program again in Fallout's distant future but it will be different than the one before the war, probably mostly focused on migration to other planets)

 

[H3rw00d1]

(I would not rule out that there would ever be a space program again in Fallout's distant future but it will be different than the one before the war, probably mostly focused on migration to other planets)

Mr. House stated that he wanted to colonize the moon. Considering what he has done this far, I wouldn't be surprised if he could do it.

 

[naossano]

I don't say that everyone should have a vehicle, but i definitely want to see more of them.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Owning a working car would probably become a symbol of high status to the general community.
Trucks will probably be a bit more common for the transport of goods and people but will also be for a handful of people.

I could imagine some raiders riding around on patched up cars, Sawyer's the 80s had motorcycles.

 

[Emperor]

The world probably would become like Judge Dredd's world.

''...people living in the ruin of the old world and the mega structures of the new one...''

I just don't think it will have mega structures.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The world probably would become like Judge Dredd's world.

''...people living in the ruin of the old world and the mega structures of the new one...''

I just don't think it will have mega structures.

I hope not. To me this is kind of a genre boundary. I would argue that there are sub-genres of the post-apocalyptic genre, and that Fallout occupies the "wasteland" genre, along with, err, Wasteland, Mad Max, etc.

Once we add "mega structures" we're in a very different sub-genre, or possibly left the post-apocalypse scenario altogether and gone clear over to cyberpunk. I agree with the Dutch Ghost that re-establishing full fledged nation states, megacorporations, etc, will "break" Fallout in the sense that it will push it out of its post-apocalyptic wasteland genre. If social organization was rebuilt to this level, than it wouldn't really be "fallout" any longer - i.e. the history of the world would become increasingly defined by new societies, rather than the effects of a war fought centuries ago. While this is likely the direction that events are moving in, given the established canon, it would destroy the setting that the genre depends on.

Personally, I see genre-breaking as a risky move. It's hard to do it properly, in a way that doesn't feel forced, and that also doesn't alienate the audience.

 

[naossano]

Fallout is not about the aftermath of the disaster, but the societies that were rebuilt afterward.

It is hugely, infinitely, collossally more Fallout-y to have advandced societies after quite a number of sequel, that people sticking to their old primitive scavenging habit.

There is the need for the new chapters in evolution, not be stuck in a loop just for the sake of wasteland-ish artificial feel. After more than two centuries, it makes zero sense to be still a wasteland.

There are other fictional universes focused on scavenging.

 

[Byzantine]

I'd love to play as a missionary from New Canaan. Imagine the role playing experience and the character development; starting out as an idealistic young preacher, and then being exposed to and shaped by the darker side of the wasteland and its inhabitants. Or perhaps even a Reaver who survived a confrontation with the Brotherhood of Steel, drifting from place to place in search of a new life. The prospect of playing as an Arroyo tribesman prior to the Chosen One's birth is also a very tempting prospect, too.

 

[BigBoss]

Of course! (All of those factions were supposed to be localized to the West Coast.)

Bethesda should have invented a new IP on the East coast, to go along with its [unwelcome] new gameplay. They should not have erroneously used the Enclave, or bothered with the BOS, nor recycled the whole FEV supermutant plot. IMO all of that should have been discarded (along with FO:Tactics really).

Yeah, didn't they promise not to use anything out of the Fallout Tactics story or lore, in which they did anyway. That pissed me off.

Fallout is not about the aftermath of the disaster, but the societies that were rebuilt afterward.

I believe that the developers meant for people to conceive their own conclusions as to what Fallout is about, mainly being the reason the devs never give a direct or forward answer when that kind of question is asked. It's supposed to be different for everybody, allowing adaptation and a great game no matter who you are.

I hope not. To me this is kind of a genre boundary. I would argue that there are sub-genres of the post-apocalyptic genre, and that Fallout occupies the "wasteland" genre, along with, err, Wasteland, Mad Max, etc.

Once we add "mega structures" we're in a very different sub-genre, or possibly left the post-apocalypse scenario altogether and gone clear over to cyberpunk. I agree with the Dutch Ghost that re-establishing full fledged nation states, megacorporations, etc, will "break" Fallout in the sense that it will push it out of its post-apocalyptic wasteland genre. If social organization was rebuilt to this level, than it wouldn't really be "fallout" any longer - i.e. the history of the world would become increasingly defined by new societies, rather than the effects of a war fought centuries ago. While this is likely the direction that events are moving in, given the established canon, it would destroy the setting that the genre depends on.

Personally, I see genre-breaking as a risky move. It's hard to do it properly, in a way that doesn't feel forced, and that also doesn't alienate the audience.

I believe this was part of the problem people had with Fallout 2 when it first came out. It broke away from the post-apocalyptia feel established in the first game, all the while establishing brand new civilizations and bringing a feel as to where you felt like you were more in a sort of "post-post apocalyptic world", where humanity has already pretty much rebuilt itself.

Owning a working car would probably become a symbol of high status to the general community.
Trucks will probably be a bit more common for the transport of goods and people but will also be for a handful of people.

I could see some random encounters where people are tracking you, and want to kill you just to take your car. Yeah, I would see owning a car as a dangerous thing. You would never be able to leave it alone in a city, and would probably end up fighting a lot of different people who want to take it from you.

Oh I don't think cars will ever become common again in the Fallout universe.

Especially considering the fact that oil was more or less completely gone by the time the Great War came, and other power sources are expensive/rare as it is. I think the fact that you were able to keep your car running for an unlimited time (not to mention the fact that such an old car never suffered any breakdowns) which is going off the idea that the guy that fixes it for you also is sitting on a large oil reserve. This was done for pure gameplay reasons, considering the "oil drought" before the Great War, even if you were able to get a car running, sooner or later you would run out of a fuel source. It would be more like Mad Max, where a single tank of gas is especially precious.

Where would they even get fuel for the cars anyway? There may be some oil still out there but I don't think there's enough for bringing vehicles back into public norm. They'd need eco-friendly cars or something of the like. Looks like the Fallout world will have to get used to Prius's.

Damn. The Fallout world will be full of jackasses thinking they're "saving the world" because they're driving a Prius.

Personnally i was pretty disapointed that the level of technology/civilization wasn't even higher in FoNV, considering the evolution between Fo1 & Fo2. (FoBos & FoT were earlier in the timeline, they can get a pass)

You're actually bringing up Fallout: PoS? Fallout Tactics I can understand (I guess), but Fallout: PoS, well. There's a reason it has that nickname.

And Fallout wouldn't really be a "Fallout" game any more if the technology was more advanced. It would be something else entirely, like those people who are asking for a Fallout game before the war. Bad idea. Like Sim City mixed with some distorted version of Fallout.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

I do understand naossano's thinking, that eventually we should see the world being rebuild again.
Against that I have no problem, I don't want the Fallout world to forever remain a crapsack world, that is boring.

But I think the period after the war, the emergence of new civilizations, to the point that nations start to expand into the wastelands of the world, re uniting settlements again, and eventually become somewhat like the nations of old is where the 'Fallout' period would be officially over.

Sure, outside the walls there could (and would) still be anarchy and lawlessness but it is not as if our society today is completely governed by law worldwide.
And there are still plenty of mutant critters and other after effects of the war that will probably linger on for a long time.
But there would not be such a focus on basic survival and rebuilding as there is now in the setting.

Though we class the Fallout games now as sequels I think that eventually should also expand out into 'sidequels', stories that happen roughly at the same time of another game's story, but in a different place, far removed from the other game.
This way developers would have more room to create games and expansions without having to keep the world 'in ruins' and having to explain why it is like that still decades later.

And prequels honestly don't have to be bad but they should not interfere with the other games, so again in a complete different place.

For example; I had planned the Fallout Texas setting to take place after Fallout New Vegas and the second Battle of Hoover Dam, but it could take place during the same time. If the Legion appeared in the Texas Wasteland it would be because while the Caesar is busy with the campaign against the NCR he has send some of his other Legates to expand Eastwards.
He probably runs multiple campaigns at the same time.

Large factions like the BOS and the NCR have multiple bases, forts and bunkers out in the Core Region, so while the Courier has dealings with the NCR army and BOS Mojave chapter, the Ranger (made up player character) could be doing quests for or against the NCR and the BOS in the Los Angeles Wasteland in some sort of sidequel to Fallout New Vegas.

 

[BigBoss]

I would definitely have liked to see Northern California during the time the Vault Dweller was looking for the water chip. This means no NCR, no Brotherhood of Steel outpost in every city, and no Enclave. New factions entirely. The Shi might still be there though, maybe even the Hubologists. I would definitely play that game.

I think after the Great War, the amount of radiation released, the events of the Resource Wars (including draining up all the valuable resources), the world could never be the same as it once was. Unless they somehow find a planet with a shitload of resources, I highly doubt seeing the Fallout world rebuild itself to the times of old (before the war). I doubt we will see many vehicles, instead seeing them only used by big corporations (such as Crimson Caravan/Gun Runners) and the NCR Government (among any other governments we don't know about, or have yet to spring up). And while I like the NCR, they are going to old fashioned. Anyone in the Fallout universe who knows why or how the Great War happened, has to be able to see that point. The war was started by governments based off the same principles as the NCR is basing themselves off now, and going down the exact same path (how long has the NCR been around? And they were already annexing areas [or trying to] like the Mojave and New Vegas). Yeah, I don't see civilization rebuilding itself to the odes of old in the Fallout universe any time soon. If anything, they will nuke themselves a second time before that happens (or cause some other major catastrophe). What needs to happen is the NCR and other governments need to spring new ideologies. Don't repeat history (well, fake history).

The NCR's government will fail sooner or later because we saw how that happened with the entire Western World before the Great War.
The Legion's government will fail because, again, we saw how the Roman Empire turned out. It ended up eating itself alive from the inside. Caesar preaches about corruption, but for someone who studied the Roman Empire, he should have known that during the time no where else was more full of it (corruption, I mean. Not shit).
Yes Man will fail because it's only a matter of time before someone takes power. Anarchy has NEVER worked in human history. Never do we hear of a great anarchist nation.
As for Mr. House, I don't know what his long-term plans for New Vegas are. I'm not entirely sure what his political ideologies are, but he's smart enough to realize that the answer doesn't lie in any of the above.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Hi BigBoss, that is why I like factions that experiment with different ideologies instead of rebuilding new the world in the image of the old one.

I had the same thoughts about vehicles as you mention but also governments like the NCR and the Legion, they are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past sooner or later again, and should anyone get their hands of remaining nuclear weapons or build complete new ones there will probably be another nuclear apocalypse again one day in the Fallout future - people seem to forget the lessons of their ancestors.

The Enclave also did not have an answer (basically they just wanted to rebuild the United States, not different from what the NCR is doing, but not taking the original one's mistakes into account).
The BOS thinks it can outlive everyone, hoarding technology in the meantime. Instead it seems it will probably be outlived by everyone else.

 

[Emperor]

Though we class the Fallout games now as sequels I think that eventually should also expand out into 'sidequels', stories that happen roughly at the same time of another game's story, but in a different place, far removed from the other game.
This way developers would have more room to create games and expansions without having to keep the world 'in ruins' and having to explain why it is like that still decades later.

This. There is only many ways to ''reset'' the setting and it doesn't matter how much mutants/virus/nuclear missiles you use to ''clean the plate'', humanity will rebuild itself. In my mind, we still need to go a little bit further in the timeline but not a 100/200 years gap per game, a 10/30 years is enough to the player's prolonged decisions make effect or start to make one. This timeline should do what Van Buren's developers wanted to show, that the world is not getting better but worse. After the timeline reach it's limit ( which shouldn't go near 3000 IMO) it will be time to create ''sidequels'', to fill certain regions and already visited ones with new and coherence content to make new stories,lore and expand the Fallout universe.

 

[Warhawk]

Fallout 3 squandered the possibilities of other pre-war government agencies or organizations still existing in modified form. The PA National Guard is just a collection of rotting bones, and the Enclave at a miraculously intact Site R could have easily been swapped out for a not-quite-Enclave that has different objectives and different means... one that could actually interact 'with' the Enclave if they showed up, resulting in a three-way war with the Brotherhood (presuming you choose to keep them there too). Lesser US political leaders just vanish, despite the numerous COG sites for just such people, and the proximity to Canada's core region is totally wasted. Likewise, Tenpenny is a pathetically small reference to foreigners arriving by boat from Europe, something which could have been explored to much greater detail.

If you retcon it, however, all those doors open up again. DC may be pointless, but you have any number of other major areas on the Eastern seaboard. Escape from New York, anyone?

 

[H3rw00d1]

DC may be pointless, but you have any number of other major areas on the Eastern seaboard. Escape from New York, anyone?

No! No New York, it's too overdone and I really don't want to see anymore for awhile.