Are Gen 3 Synths People?

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Amgry_Meatball, Apr 28, 2020.


Are Gen 3 Synths humans?

  1. Yes, they are humans

  2. No, those things are androids

  1. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I get you but certain tools don't necessarily require the human element. Sorting, manufacturing, ditch digging etc, a lot of functions there are already handled by machines.
    When you have existing machine design to be operated or used by humans than a human shape might be more useful, but when you make complete new machines and already have useful machine intelligence, why not make automated "tools".

    There might still be some androids but you don't need them in the numbers the Institute made and it still puts into question why they made ones almost non-distinguishably from humans.
  2. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite Board Cop oTO

    Aug 16, 2010
    And if they're supposed to use human interface computers for example, just give them direct link capabilities like R2D2, makes everything much faster.
  3. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Oh yeah, I forgot about that but that is also something I should have brought up. Why human controls when a direct interface is much more useful
    Of course that would not work with primarily human operation designed machinery.

    Other than the "other" thing the only reason I can think of to make androids that can completely pass of as humans is infiltration.
  4. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Well that is the Institute's MO in the original game. Would have made more sense if the Commonwealth Provisional Government was more of an actual thing ala NCR, so them insidiously replacing people in order to manipulate themselves into being the de-facto controllers of the entire Commonwealth would be more desirable.
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    One of my ideas for a Fallout 4 based on some of the stuff I would like to do in a Fallout game is that instead of living underground the Institute instead was building this giant city of tomorrow on the ruins of Boston.
    They would indeed have been the biggest government in the Commonwealth area with people who wanted to live in the city having to accept Institute rule.

    Everyone else who did not want to live under Institute rules or was considered an undesirable had no choice but to many to any of the settlements outside its walls.
    People would have more freedoms there but the standard of living was also a lot lower than with the city and there was a lot of resentment against the Institute.

    I could see a plot in which the Institute was covertly replacing people outside their own city and perhaps even within.
  6. Just as an example, if you had a sentient AI, if it wanted to do work in the material world outside of itself for whatever purpose, if it is "Assigned" a certain task ,it would be much less efficient if those automatons were specific tools themselves instead of universal tools that could be used as the AI wills it for whatever situation it encounters.

    If you wanted to make a direct link interface, you would have to build the infrastructure for that first. Think of an AI, it would need to run many programs to create that infrastructure.

    This goes back to the brilliant evolutionary product that is the human bipedal ambidexterous vehicle.
  7. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite Board Cop oTO

    Aug 16, 2010
    Thing is, who'd actually create a sentient AI for menial tasks? That's a recipe for disaster.

    Great, now I posted Rick & Morty memeshit. Thanks, Bethesda.
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  8. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should." - Leather Jacket Scientist Man
  9. Like I said, just give them sex organs and they will all run around painting themselves exotic colors and chopping off limbs and killing themselves. After that, they can be true companions to the human race.
  10. BoS paladin

    BoS paladin First time out of the vault

    Oct 1, 2020
    they are not people but they are meant to have emotions and look, sound, act, and even smell like humans.
  11. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Gen3 Synths are a weird bunch.

    Purely organic other than a control chip in their brain (in theory it can be exempt in their creation).

    So flesh, blood, digestive system, reproductive system (unknown if it actually works though).

    So they have DNA, mitosis and that sort.

    But...They also don't age, don't get effected by radiation magically, are eerily strong and durable...

    Their genetic lineage goes back to Shaun IIRC, so they are indeed human by modern definition (neanderthals are also human)
  12. TheodoreRoosevelt

    TheodoreRoosevelt First time out of the vault

    Nov 21, 2020
    I sided with the Brotherhood of Steel. So no Synths are not people. they are a dangerous threat to the commonwealth.
  13. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Resident Schizo Poster

    Jun 15, 2015
    I don't consider any robot to be people. They have no soul. I don't care if that makes me a robo-racist (I am sure that is what Twitter will call me). It's the truth!
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  14. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    They aren't robots though, they're purely organic with all the motivations of a person. ;v
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    MASSIVE_FARTS Ruiner of jokes

    Mar 1, 2021
    Nah, but they taste just like the real thing
  16. jmadeleine296

    jmadeleine296 First time out of the vault

    Mar 27, 2021
    They’re people because they act like people.

    I believe that sentience and having an internal experience is the result of the scientific processes of the brain. That is why people’s outward behavior is affected by brain trauma and mental illness. It also explains why I have sudden amnesia sometimes, or why I don’t understand certain things at first. It’s because my brain is working through its processes and figuring things out. The Matrix, the movie, is proof that other people can have thoughts about existing, which suggests they have had an internal experience where they had self-aware

    It’s difficult to prove or disprove that something can have an internal experience that isn’t dependent on the brain, but if it does depend solely on the brain, then synths being people depends wholly on the construction of said brain and the body it exists in. If it is a perfect reconstruction of a human brain in a perfect reconstruction a human body, then synths are people with an internal experience.

    Like others have said, I don’t think any characters in Fallout 4 actually talk about what they think of synths having an internal experience and whether it’s possible.

    Humans do have internal experiences, as we can all testify. Synths can also testify to having an internal experience, I’m sure, so they are people.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  17. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    May 12, 2020
    There’s a debate to be had about whether a sufficiently advanced machine simulation of a human can be considered a person. But apparently Bethesda wasn’t interested in exploring this, because gen 3 synths are virtually indistinguishable from a human. They are entirely organic (other than the synth component implant and possibly their skeletons), made from samples of Shaun’s DNA, with a little FEV thrown in because why not? FEV is the most common substance known to man. I’m sure they were putting it in Nuka Cola before the war. There’s no reason to think their brains work any differently than ours do. These synths aren’t built, they are grown in labs. They are more like clones than androids. If you think gen 3 synths aren’t human you’re just a stupid as the Institute and, by extension, Bethesda.
  18. Morgan_

    Morgan_ Duckerz

    Jul 3, 2020
    I'd say they are people, but also possibly something else as well.

    Since they are really just Fallout's version of replicants I'll use Bladerunner as my reasoning as others have:
    I was 15 when I read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and iirc Dick's take on it was that they would be based on how they are internally and their actions, but that we may never know with certainty. It was never directly stated iirc, but since Deckard is a replicant and he experiences things as a human would in both the film and book I would say that they are humans. Better to consider them as such and face whatever consequences that may bring (if any) as opposed to classifying them as unpersons when it is presumably impossible to tell. We know what paths this leads to so just on this alone I would take my chances with the former and treat them as humans as much as I could, but still recognize they could kill me more easily than a human. Then again, so could someone with a gun.

    Just think of Roy's change in his state of mind and attitude toward life at the end of the film. He goes from the intent to kill and changes his mind once it was time to commit to it. Seems pretty human to me.
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  19. DynV

    DynV First time out of the vault

    Apr 30, 2019
    I'd consider a synth a human only is if there would be absolutely no way for them to avoid the most basic human functions, no matter what recall code would be given to them or manchurian-candidate-like re/programming they would do; drinking, eating, sleeping & sex would take priority over anything very close to the manner it does for humans. Trying to bypass that for synths would leave as much irreversible damage as a human would need to get to behave in the same manner.
  20. Clown_Shoe_Prostitute

    Clown_Shoe_Prostitute First time out of the vault

    Jul 14, 2021
    I think it's fucking preposterous that they bring up the question of whether Synths can be regarded as human when far, far more rudimentary robots have been considered sapient beings with rights in the setting for fucking ever. The debate over whether or not Ghouls/Super Mutants can be accepted at least makes some sense because Ghouls are fucking scary and Supes were purpose-bred to dominate or murder every other human being... but considering that shit like Mr. Handies and Securitrons and Protectrons and the like are accepted as their own sapient entities in communities all throughout both NV and FO3 the whole synth debate stuff is complete insanity to me. No shit a 1:1 replication of a human can be considered, at the least, an equivalent to a human in terms of sapience and rights.
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