Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelphopoiesis
It's a formal religious recognition of friendship so most examples reflect this, wouldn't be surprising if ye olde homosexuals did it though.
Are you concerned about a decline of family values?
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It's a formal religious recognition of friendship so most examples reflect this, wouldn't be surprising if ye olde homosexuals did it though.
AskWazzup
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Yeah i guess they might have, but the text in wikipedia states that it is disputed if it ever had any homosexual connotations among the populace (or at least that's what i understood from it).
mithrap
Ring a ding-ding, baby
"Brother-making", or Adelphopoiesis, was a common practice in Medieval Byzantium and I've read a book by Claudia Rapp that listed an insanely high number of such rituals in Europe, after the Byzantine refugees came to France and Italy, where they provoked the Renaissance (pardon me, but one of the most, er... "fabulous" period in history. Tully, for example, received such union at some point, and everyone in the Versaille court knew that he was bisexual.). The thing is : there has been a massive drop in charges of sodomy after the Byzantines brought the ritual in Europe, because legally, you couldn't accuse someone of breaking a holy vow like that, which was very convenient (yes, it's supposed to be chaste. Platonism too is supposed to be chaste, and we all know what was going on between the tutor and the youngun. It's supposed, just like you're supposed to not lie when you declare your earnings.). You could only nullify it if the couple demanded it, which created a legal loop. They swore a vow of chastity, so they were legally protected. You couldn't accuse them of breaking the said vow, and you couldn't conduct an investigation as easily as before. As said, the charges of sodomy dropped massively after the ritual was introduced in Europe.
Adelphopoiesis existed under Augustus already, and he had a problem with his population because of it. Apparently, more than half of the population didn't reproduce and people everywhere were having Adelphopoiesis rituals. He had to create a baby bonus for the people to start making children again, and Adelphopoiesis was already supposed to be a friendship binding, not a gay union. Legally, it doesn't prevent someone from making babies with his wife, but in reality, the link was pretty obvious.
Back to the medieval Europe : the crusaders, and more precisely the templars, travelled with Byzantine military orders in which Adelphopoiesis was common (Many priests, and even st Thomas of Aquins have raised concerns about how common homosexuality was in the military orders), and these templars came back with what they called affrerement. The same order which has found itself accused of sodomy, and three different investigations, led by two actual popes (who, unlike King Philippe, didn't want the templars to be found guilty) all found proofs of the accusation.
Extremely popular within the borders with the Holy Empire too. For example, I've read in the "bibliothèque humaniste de Selestat" that in my village, called Scherwiller, there has been a problem with that, the priest made so many affrerement that the duke of Lorraine, a guy named Antoine, asked him for a report, and it turns out that every single couple bind by the affrerement was also declared sterile, so that people wouldn't ask questions about why they don't marry with women. And apparently, the Duke had demanded reports from all over the borders with the holy empire, which could indicate that it was a very common practice for legally protecting gay couples.
mithrap
Ring a ding-ding, baby
And also considering that reformed families were more common than traditional families in medieval times (mainly because of the plague, pilgrimages, crusades and wars), the "traditional family nucleus" is more an ideal than an historical reality. People always married in their late twenties, people always kind of divorced (nullify a marriage is not a legal divorce, way to cheat the numbers. But it was extremely common too) etc.
On overall, I think that a proper education prevails on a solid family structure. You can have the perfect family structure, but if your father is a violent, absent guy, and if your mother teaches you to twerk before you even know that Caesar is not a salad, then the family structure is utterly useless. On the contrary, you can have a reformed family who teaches you values, who teaches you that authority is not an abstract concept and who takes care of you. There's no cause and effect between family structure and education. Two different things.
On overall, I think that a proper education prevails on a solid family structure. You can have the perfect family structure, but if your father is a violent, absent guy, and if your mother teaches you to twerk before you even know that Caesar is not a salad, then the family structure is utterly useless. On the contrary, you can have a reformed family who teaches you values, who teaches you that authority is not an abstract concept and who takes care of you. There's no cause and effect between family structure and education. Two different things.
AskWazzup
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
That's a great read. Also, who is Tully? I googled him, but the only thing i got was some football players and Marcus Tullius Cicero.
Illuminati Confirmed!
Banned
Saying "eugenics advocate" makes me sound like some kind of Nazi, it would be polite to make a distinction since my views on all forms of state are pretty clear. Just because I oppose government-led dysgenics programs (like the welfare state) doesn't mean that I do support government eugenics.
And how exactly are my opinions on what happened 70 years ago even tangentially related to the subject?
mithrap
Ring a ding-ding, baby
Oups, I wrote his name wrong. It's Lully, not Tully. My bad.
Jean-Baptise Lully, the court composer under Louis XIV.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Good mention mithrap on the family issue. It isn't about 'marriage on paper', or FORCING individuals to re-marry.
It is more about ending a vicious cycle that often perpetuates due to the lack of education from the parental unit, whether from general ignorance or the in-ability to educate due to factors like making ends meet. Hence, the extended family of the single parent should be brought in as backup.
Often times though, excluding those who just have shitty parents, people refuse to ask for help due to arrogance or a lack of desire to be told, 'I told you so.'
However, these folks have no reasonable justification for refusing help, readily available, at the price of major headaches and drama.
As said before, in the case of homelessness for example, barring extremely bad luck and having loss of family due to again, shitty parents or tragic fate (like the mentally ill whom society should help), most folks have people who are willing to take them unless they are true assholes. I have met too many people who do not want to move back and rather put themselves in debt paying rent, because living with mom and dad is un-acceptable.
Just as society has an obligation to help those who end up getting the shit end of the stick, it is also the responsibility of society to not end up in the situation in the first place by taking reasonable precautions.
I remember the story of some young girl who was sailing around the world or something and she had to be rescued by foreign governments many times. Who foots that bill? Who told this girl its her god given right to take dangerous risks like this because she wants to?
Abby Sunderland
Just to reiterate, I am not advocating cutting support. Bad shit happens, and we all make mistakes. But we need to not be so afraid of political correctness to not even mention that stupid shit CAN also be avoided. That is the whole point of EDUCATION. As you can see, the mere mention of education brings cries of RACISM.
It is more about ending a vicious cycle that often perpetuates due to the lack of education from the parental unit, whether from general ignorance or the in-ability to educate due to factors like making ends meet. Hence, the extended family of the single parent should be brought in as backup.
Often times though, excluding those who just have shitty parents, people refuse to ask for help due to arrogance or a lack of desire to be told, 'I told you so.'
However, these folks have no reasonable justification for refusing help, readily available, at the price of major headaches and drama.
As said before, in the case of homelessness for example, barring extremely bad luck and having loss of family due to again, shitty parents or tragic fate (like the mentally ill whom society should help), most folks have people who are willing to take them unless they are true assholes. I have met too many people who do not want to move back and rather put themselves in debt paying rent, because living with mom and dad is un-acceptable.
Just as society has an obligation to help those who end up getting the shit end of the stick, it is also the responsibility of society to not end up in the situation in the first place by taking reasonable precautions.
I remember the story of some young girl who was sailing around the world or something and she had to be rescued by foreign governments many times. Who foots that bill? Who told this girl its her god given right to take dangerous risks like this because she wants to?
Abby Sunderland
Just to reiterate, I am not advocating cutting support. Bad shit happens, and we all make mistakes. But we need to not be so afraid of political correctness to not even mention that stupid shit CAN also be avoided. That is the whole point of EDUCATION. As you can see, the mere mention of education brings cries of RACISM.
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AskWazzup
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Is that the guy who was very popular with Louis XIV because he wrote catchy slow jams that the supposedly fatass Louis could actually dance to without going into coma?
mithrap
Ring a ding-ding, baby
He actually wrote dancing songs for the king, true, at least when Louis was still able to dance (Louis was actually tall and skinny, and a good dancer, but he hurt his feet at some point and couldn't dance afterwards)Is that the guy who was very popular with Louis XIV because he wrote catchy slow jams that the supposedly fatass Louis could actually dance to without going into coma?
He also wrote the Te Deum, which praised the lord for sparing the king, when he had to get a butt surgery (true story. There's even a wikipedia article on the surgery operation, but it's in french : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fistule_anale_de_Louis_XIV). When Louis didn't show up at the orchestra in his honor, mainly because it was shortly after his butt surgery, Lully got mad and started to hit the floor with his wand, and pierced his feet by accident. He was too proud to actually admit that he was wounded, and died of infection shortly after. The one time a royal anus, pride and classical music actually killed a guy.
AskWazzup
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I vaguely remember something about him being one of the first people who used a stick for conducting the orchestra and that he hit his foot because the orchestra could not hear him clearly enough, so he started to hit the ground very loudly with it.
Sn1p3r187
Carolinian Shaolin Monk
Yes, I'm concerned. I think a lot of things rooted in value in tradition at least brought some sense of good morals to society and encouraged them to be better people. Now these days I think most people act like total retards and have children they can't afford to raise on a single parent income because it was their decision to act like whores or damn gigolos. This ain't always the case but a majority of the time, it is. Personally it pisses me off. I can have a rebellious attitude and whatever, but at least I know family traditions are sacred and I'd make sure they live on and stay alive in whatever family I make happen.
I totally forgot. US citizens are not human people.
You would be surprised how similar the US and other nations are when it comes to the people, basic needs and such stuff.
No, not really. Being a gipsy in Hungary? Or a homosexual in Poland? Croatia? And Germany has its fare share of right wing nutjobs, conspiracy believers and other lunatics that even managed to get a foot in to politics now. Our lunatic party, the AfD, managed to get arond 20% of the seats in a lot of the state parliaments. Seirously, Europe is not that much better. Paris, Brussel, Madrid, they all saw some quite heavy terrorist attacks, we have very steady growing right wing in the European parliament and many of the nations. Particularly eastern europe is becoming slowly but steadily a nightmare.
Under the surface we have a lot more in common then you think.
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