Army sends D&D playing soldiers to the shrinks...

One would think that the line between
"YOur mighty warrior kills 10 orcs with his +3 Battle Axe" and "Your mighty warrior kills 10 palestinians with his .50 cal machinegun" would be a thin one.

I remember reading, maybe it was Blackhawk Down, how the use of violent video games and videos were used to dissensitize individuals to the effects of commit acts of violence.

Then again, if you want to get out of the army, maybe showing up to your local recruiter dressed as an Elvin wizard might work.
 
welsh said:
One would think that the line between
"YOur mighty warrior kills 10 orcs with his +3 Battle Axe" and "Your mighty warrior kills 10 palestinians with his .50 cal machinegun" would be a thin one.
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Not when one is for real, and the other is pretend.

That is the problem, you see. One's ability to slay 10 orcs is dependant on character abilities and a dice roll. Not personal ability.

Or have you forgotten the concept of a roleplaying game? :P
 
Not when one is for real, and the other is pretend.
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I remember that movie toys where robin william's hitler uncle was going to use kids to man his army through video games. that was classic!
 
I remember reading, maybe it was Blackhawk Down, how the use of violent video games and videos were used to dissensitize individuals to the effects of commit acts of violence.
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It was based on a famous sentence by Ronald Reagan in the 80`s, when he said videogames were a good thing since they prepared the"soldiers of the future". That sentence landed in the middle of great discussions on the role of the new forms of entertainment and their sociological effects. At the time the politically correct left wing was gathering against male militarized stereotypes in the gaming world, a few years after that the right wing took the field by storm and started to demonise videogames too.

I have to say i`m a really peaceful guy, and have played videogames almost since they started, so i`m not terribly interested in the discussion...
 
Videogames desensitize us to violence, this is true. But that doesn't mean that they make us capable of it. The thought of murdering my next door neighbor and taking his stuff is less repulsive to me, but I still don't do it, because I know that its wrong.

That's the point of military training, to make you capable of violence in the proper setting. That's how Sgt. York, a dumb peace-loving Quaker was able to single-handedly capture 120 German soldiers in WW1.
 
Videogames are not as bad as the real thing can get. Believe me.

I think the more dangerous thing is how it can automatize your instincts so you do things without thinking.

That way, when you see the silhouette of an enemy soldier, or something that looks like it, you aim and fire not even thinking that what you are shooting at is a human being. It can also not gibe you time to think if it is a friendly or a harmless civilian.
 
Good lecture on war reality is "All Quiet on the Western Front" by Erich Maria Remarque. This is a classic now, but if some of you didn't read it yet, I encourage You to do so. It shows the absurd of the war with a great power, based on author's WW1 experience. One of my personal favs.
 
To tell you the truth, I think the Israeli military is very correct in their handling of the situation. Military training is complete and utter re-education. When you go through basic, they break you down, and then build you back up according to their standards. Their is absolutely no room for disagreement, innovation, or imagination. You have only one purpose from that point on: to follow orders. It only makes sense to keep those who have a potential for "reverting" down low. If roleplayers can "detach" themselves from reality while playing a game, how does the military know they can't just "detach" themselves during basic, thereby ruining all of the re-education they went through?
 
King of Creation said:
To tell you the truth, I think the Israeli military is very correct in their handling of the situation. Military training is complete and utter re-education. When you go through basic, they break you down, and then build you back up according to their standards. Their is absolutely no room for disagreement, innovation, or imagination. You have only one purpose from that point on: to follow orders. It only makes sense to keep those who have a potential for "reverting" down low. If roleplayers can "detach" themselves from reality while playing a game, how does the military know they can't just "detach" themselves during basic, thereby ruining all of the re-education they went through?
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There's a friend of my family who was a sniper in Vietnam. What he said about basic training is basically what your saying now. Its done to make a specific mold that cant be deliniated from without problems with the chain of command.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
exactly... that is the whole point of basic training.

my dad read the Adventures of Conrad Stargard by leo frankowski and said that the stuff in books 2-4 was a lot like the reasoning/why/how basic works and such. the more intelligent someone is, the higher the chance they will know whats happening. since they know whats happening the whole purpose of the training will be futile.

lots of military people say "intelligent is better" but in reality, intelligence makes people reason out activities and events. lots of times in combat situations stopping to think will get you or others killed. soldiers need to be pretty stupid without being dumb as a brick as they can get. military personel and those who make the descisions need to be as smart as possible to minimize the risk to the soldiers and the objective.

its a catch-22. to be a soldier they need to be non-intelligent and stupid. to get to the higher ranks you have to go through the lower ranks. problem is people dont aquire intelligence as they get older for the 99.9% of the time.
 
Actually, it's quite easy to arrive at the officer branch without going through the enlisted branch. There are dire consequences to this though... mainly the lack of experience that officers should require.
 
Jabbapop said:
I remember that movie toys where robin william's hitler uncle was going to use kids to man his army through video games. that was classic!
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Orson Scott Card also did it in Ender's Game.
 
all that kid-soldiers thing really got big when hitler ran a group of children 13-16 trained as killers/assassins.

they were extremely effective without mental/psycologial reprecussions untill they were 20+ at which point they were out of the special unit.

thats where it started from really.
 
Well..it started from basic sociology. It's proven science that the younger you are, the easier you are to socialize. It's why there's an age cap on basic training. They need younger minds so it will be easier to resocialize them.
 
They need younger minds so it will be easier to resocialize them.
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You mean they brain wash them and then they want them to forget all the crap they thought them?
 
Let's get to the important issues here...Cthulhu players aren't affected by this right? How else will the Israeli army stop the scourge of the Outer Gods?
 
Lt. Col. Gonzalez said:
You mean they brain wash them and then they want them to forget all the crap they thought them?
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Well, yeah. Basic training is resocialization. It is basically "brainwashing." During basic, you're completely isolated from the rest of the world. You're worked off sleep deprivation, mental, verbal, and physical abuse. If you don't meaure up, they recycle you until you do.
 
Well, yeah. Basic training is resocialization. It is basically "brainwashing." During basic, you're completely isolated from the rest of the world. You're worked off sleep deprivation, mental, verbal, and physical abuse. If you don't meaure up, they recycle you until you do.
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Another reason why I wouldn't join the army unless there is a war going on that involves my country directly.
And to think Psychosniper is going trough all that just to become chaplain assistant.

BTW: Any news about Psycho? Did he gave up yet?
 
I personally think they are worried about the mentality gamers have. Usually (from my experience) people who play D&D or other PnP games have a lust to inform people about it. Not in a bad way. For example in a job interview etc. they might say they play tabletops more often, than your regular computergamer. Playing computer games isn?t such a big deal ( not for anyone, bear with me folks) to people, playing D&D is for that person.
It?s like car driving. Yes I drive a car etc. Or...yes I drive, I have a Ferrari!

They only attack the D&D players, because they make a number out of it. Not a bigger number than others, but it?s a number you can clearly see.

Ok, back to the point. The gamers attitude. Maybe they are afraid of this MARINE-GUN-HO mentality that might come with games. "Who cares, it?s a game anyway! Let?s blow everything up!"

If you play D&D you are a gamer. Gamers might come with a trigger happy mentality. So I think it?s much more about the people being gamers, than about the fact that they are smart of dum.

I personally don?t think that playing D&D will make you a smarted tactician...you are, or you are not. In real life you really don?t fight goblins in the dungeons with magic. You only play Doom in Iraq with Skynet robots :twisted:
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