But natural disasters aren't spontaneous. The earth is built on plates which move. When those plates rub together, things happen. Besides, if you want to take a theological look at it, natural disasters are God's way of trimming down the ever-growing population.
Belief's and a happy life under science's terms.
- Thread starter The Vault Dweller
- Start date
quietfanatic
Ancient One
Turnip said:
What, volcanoes and plagues of treckies from the beginning of time.
I am agnostic and whether God exists or not, if peoples' faith in him can make them happy without interfering with me, I don't mind. I am happy because I live in a Western country with relatively few problems, but even if I did have problems, I doubt very much that I would be 'saved' from them by radically changing my beliefs. If the vast majority of humanity are supposedly going to hell or purgatory according to various religions, merely for being happy and holding different beliefs to others, then I reject them all. I am sure a Christian God would not want the hatred and confusion of billions of innocent souls on his guilty conscience, which he would have to have, to judge people in such a way, otherwise people might as well be bacterium.
Vulkans? Or do you mean Vulcans as in the Leonard Nimoy type? Im not quite sure what you are refering to, though as before, I posted my respose to this whole thing up above.
quietfanatic
Ancient One
I've never really liked Star Treck as it seems too happy and clean to me. I would prefer similar sci-fi which is consistently darker and more gothic.
The Vault Dweller
always looking for water.
Well...as bad as it is seeing my attempt at discussion derailed Im glad to finally meet some other Star Trek fans. Not too ironic though since the show was inherently philosophical. (though Kirk was an egotistical jackass)
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
quietfanatic
Ancient One
Ok, to be fair, Star Trek is not that bad. It is usually well made with alright acting and most of the films were good. But I would never be a devoted fan for the reasons above.
John Uskglass
Venerable Relic of the Wastes
I'd say it was about as inherintly philosophical as Soylent Green, only without as much camp value. It was terrible.
The Vault Dweller
always looking for water.
John Uskglass said:
Oh come on. Ok maybe the episodes were presented horribly and butchered by bad acting (which was accepted at the time) yet there were lots of thing touched upon. Every unique civilization they met seemed to suffer from some misconception in their own systems of existance that lead to much showmanship and preaching on the part of the crew. I can however be mistaken...its been years.
Since Stardate 1998 I think.
Boldly going where no discussion has gone before!,
The Vault Dweller
quietfanatic
Ancient One
I can't be harsh because I didn't watch the early series, just some of the films, which seemed to be alright to me.
Of couse! Haven`t you heard of the invasion of Atlantis by the Vulkans?quietfanatic said:
You haven`t?
Well, you see how efficient they are, ever wondered why no one ever found the remainings of this prospourous civilisation?
Oh, and the Romulans in Star Trek where definetly funny, a good contrast to thoose Vulkans.
Okay, okay i mispelled it, I meant volcanoes, damn I really suck at english
John Uskglass said:
Soylent Green is pretty damn philosophical, I thank you.
Star Trek had a kind of vague philosophical value, which mostly boiled down to "American values are the best", but that's just the first series. The others are all soap series in space. Big boobies, bad acting, weak hard-to-follow plots, yip.
quietfanatic said:
Try Farscape. It's not gothic and it's not really dark, but it beats the crap out of Star Trek. Don't get me wrong, I am a Star Trek fan (well only Voyager, since TNG and DS9 suck IMO) but Farscape is far more entertaining and fun. Star Trek can be a bit sterile from time to time and becomes repetative after a while.
Next Generation is much better than the first series in my opinion. Picard was an actual captain, not an alien giggalo. Besides, Patrick Stewart is a good actor.
John Uskglass
Venerable Relic of the Wastes
What? Exactly the opposite. The Star Treck world was socialistic and Roddenberry was a big secular humanist. That's about as American as the Kremlin.Kharn said:
The Vault Dweller
always looking for water.
John Uskglass said:
...and the discussion goes full circle as philosophy and Star Trek combine!
Ya as much as I loved Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation was even better.
I will never forget this one scene from the original Star Trek though. In it the crew are exploring an alien planet where they believe a backwards, but intelligent civilization resides. As they explore a jungle an alien person follows and spy's on them only intended to learn about the nature of the intrusion. When Kirk finds out about this he leaves the group and beats the alien who doesnt make a move to defend itself. After the rest of the crew show up Kirk helps the alien up and explains..."We come in peace."
...the funny thing is he meant it seriously.
Now thats an American value!,
The Vault Dweller
Shadowbird said:
Oh, please. If you now believe that there is a God, then you must admit that if he doesn't beat up his children himself, he stands idly by, watching as they are beaten up by their human fathers. Humans cause other humans suffering all the time, in ways that I am sure a God would find to be quite unjust.
If there is a God out there who is supposed to love us, I'd like to hear him explain himself. Humans have managed to fabricate explinations as to how God can love one of his daughters for instance, and yet stand by and watch as she is raped. To me, that would be madness. And if this God is indeed our father, he wouldn't give a fuck about respecting the 'free will' of that rapist. Were I a father, and found someone forcing his throbbing cock into my daughter against her will, I'd kill him on the spot if I could. If you claim that God is so powerful, he could easily do the same.
Suppose that I am the father of a bunch of kids, sitting on a bench by a playground observing them play together. I love my children, just love them, and wish them all the best in life. Suddenly, they begin to bicker over something, and after a while start fighting and strangling eachother. I sit there and do nothing, because I want them to realize themselves that happiness comes from within, and that [blah blah blah]. Yes, that makes sense! I love them, hence I shall do nothing to prevent their suffering, I mean, after all they brought it upon themselves. The ways of my work are the ways of MYSTARY!
Shadowbird said:
I'm not saying that God should go about and give everyone what they ask for. All I'm saying is that he should perhaps consider actually helping those in dire need. I can see the hell braking loose before me now; people not dying of dehydration, starvation and preventable deceases. People claim that God loves us. If I would believe in God, I wouldn't hold him in a very high regard.
Is it *my* responsibility to help those 11 mil. kiddos as previously mentioned? Why should I? I mean, I don't even know them, and I enjoy life in excess. God *loves* them, and he has way more resources to give than I have (seeing as he is in fact God almighty and all that). To sum it all up: It just doesn't make sense.
I must admit that Shadowbird is right about god interfering.
If god would step in even in the slightest way, humanity would loose something that most people really hold high: freedom and responsibility.
As soon as god would do anything as soon as something bad happend, people would no longer would fear these things happening.
And if he would punish everyone who did something evil, people wouldn't do it because they fear it, not because they think it is wrong.
This fosters Big Brother/Führer mentality: relaying on someone without thinking themselves, and it would lead to revolution of people who wouldn't have revolted in other occasions, people who have a brain.
Strangely this is already indicated in one of the oldest tales of Christianity (not saying it is true, but it is a god metaphor), the tale of the garden of Eden.
Seriously, what was the garden of Eden about? Permanently happy Adam and Eve walked paradise, being totally dumb, getting everything they wanted.
Boring as hell IMO, but then they had enough of boredom, they did something forbidden and ate that apple, and suddenly they where not dumb any longer.
They where released into freedom, longing back to paradise, but they had got some interesting and entertaining things: a working brain and sexuality.
The way that Adam and Eve longed back to paradise was like grown ups longing back to the time when they where children, when life was easy.
But not many would actually want to become dumb again, with no responsibility and no decisions to make.
If god would actively step in every time we make a mistake, this would not be a live worth living, the spice would not be there.
But this would not justify why god had to make live harder for us with disasters, it would not make sense for a loving god.
If god would step in even in the slightest way, humanity would loose something that most people really hold high: freedom and responsibility.
As soon as god would do anything as soon as something bad happend, people would no longer would fear these things happening.
And if he would punish everyone who did something evil, people wouldn't do it because they fear it, not because they think it is wrong.
This fosters Big Brother/Führer mentality: relaying on someone without thinking themselves, and it would lead to revolution of people who wouldn't have revolted in other occasions, people who have a brain.
Strangely this is already indicated in one of the oldest tales of Christianity (not saying it is true, but it is a god metaphor), the tale of the garden of Eden.
Seriously, what was the garden of Eden about? Permanently happy Adam and Eve walked paradise, being totally dumb, getting everything they wanted.
Boring as hell IMO, but then they had enough of boredom, they did something forbidden and ate that apple, and suddenly they where not dumb any longer.
They where released into freedom, longing back to paradise, but they had got some interesting and entertaining things: a working brain and sexuality.
The way that Adam and Eve longed back to paradise was like grown ups longing back to the time when they where children, when life was easy.
But not many would actually want to become dumb again, with no responsibility and no decisions to make.
If god would actively step in every time we make a mistake, this would not be a live worth living, the spice would not be there.
But this would not justify why god had to make live harder for us with disasters, it would not make sense for a loving god.
Shadowbird said:
..
..
Gah.
..
If I cared, I'd go kill someone now. Luckily neither do I care nor do I have weapons.
Corpse
Mildly Dipped
Ashmo said:
One reason why I have refrained from posting in this thread, is because it would make me feel like a bastard who's just told a little kid 'there is no Santa Claus' the night before christmas.
Keep your hopes up people.... humanity will really need it.
Not that will do much good.
Why care about life's problems? Why care about environmental pollution, AIDS, global warming, the spread of WMD's, terrorism, overfishing, pollution of the seas, weakend ozone layer, melting pole caps and all the other crap? Know what? God created this world, and if this one goes *poof*, where is the problem? God will make a new one!