Best Fallout game

[0wing]

I find that to be one of the biggest highlights of being strangers to it: looking merely at the broad strokes surface and copying it (and pasting on top of a completely different gameplay and presentation). They didn't care enough to dig deeper and creating stuff that matches but doesn't outright copy like Obsidian did. They just wanted the retro apocalypse setting that was already thought out by others so they didn't have to think for themselves.

Well, aside from combat, everything else works almost the same, you go into the city or settlement and solve problems using your skills or fuck around but in first person and on a smaller territory. Which is bad but not 'complete strangers'.

 

[Kohno]

Well, aside from combat, everything else works almost the same

Only in the most broad sense where you could say the same about nearly every RPG: "you go into the city and solve problems using your skills or fuck around".

 

[0wing]

Only in the most broad sense where you could say the same about nearly every RPG: "you go into the city and solve problems using your skills or fuck around".

At least it's RPG instead of top-down/first-person shooter.

 

[Kohno]

At least it's RPG instead of top-down/first-person shooter.

Only barely. It certainly has its shooter theme on top of things along with the sandboxy "go see what's behind the next hill" stuff.

And even so, the genre label doesn't make a difference if the game is just bad.

On a curious sidenote, I didn't expect to find myself arguing against the same things here that I came across for years in the old Beth boards back in those days. Times a changin'.

 

[0wing]

And even so, the genre label doesn't make a difference if the game is just bad.

The fact that it has it's genre does put F3 above PoS and alt+F4. A bit.

 

[Kohno]

The fact that it has it's genre does put F3 above PoS and alt+F4. A bit.

Ok, I'll give you that. But it still doesn't make a difference to the original argument that by all intents and purposes those three games are practically their own series.

 

[0wing]

Ok, I'll give you that. But it still doesn't make a difference to the original argument that by all intents and purposes those three games are practically their own series.

Better to say it's two branches, Tactics, F3(questionable titles) and F4/PoS (bullshit titles).

 

[Black Angel]

I'd say that, because they only copy-paste plot and shit from the previous games without even bothering to re-enact the depth and importance of it, they are complete strangers to the series. I mean, look at the GECK in Fallout 2 vs. in Fallout 3. It went from this really valuable piece of pre-War tech meant to help the generation from the Old World to survive in the New World, to this piece of junk scrambled for parts to be used in a purifier that's arguably useless considering how everybody managed to get by just fine with whatever water they could get, and that's not to mention the fact it's been 200 years since the Great War. In Fallout 1, water-urgency plot really means something since we were given a time limit, and there's a tension among the Vault 13's dweller regarding whatever water left before it finally runs out, while in Fallout 3 it seemed only James is really concerned, while the rest around him doesn't even give a fuck except water beggar but he's alone and most probably meant to be abused for Good karma.

 

[Gizmojunk]

They are all messy, mechanically bonkers, and written and designed by people apparently complete strangers to the series.

There were devs on the FO3 team that had never heard of the series before; and others that knew of them, but had not played them.

Well, aside from combat, everything else works almost the same, you go into the city or settlement and solve problems using your skills or fuck around but in first person and on a smaller territory. Which is bad but not 'complete strangers'.

I wouldn't say so. FO3 & 4 are concerned only with simulated adventure; [reaction to whim]. The sandbox is paramount, and as such, inviolate to the [logical] consequences of the player's actions. FO3 & TES are more akin to the "Delos" theme park experience [seen in the movie Westworld] than they are to any roleplaying experience.

In FO3, the PC can shoot their dad 50 times in the face with the bb gun, then ask him for more bbs. They can later attack the BOS paladins at the Citadel gates, and return shortly after, to ask admittance to the Brotherhood; just try that stunt at the BOS gates in Lost Hills [FO1].

They can go on a psychotic rampage across the countryside, and then buy off the world with free water-bottles. They do not work the same at all.

 

[Kohno]

There were devs on the FO3 team that had never heard of the series before; and others that knew of them, but had not played them.

Yeah, I remember those interviews. Was quite an eyeopener back in those days.

 

[0wing]

There were devs on the FO3 team that had never heard of the series before; and others that knew of them, but had not played them.

Shit happens but who knows how many people in Obsidian played F2 not to mention less populator F1. And who cares, FNV became a masterpeace anyway. But I agree, to make better games, you must play and understand Fallout 1-2 first, it's design and philosophy.

In FO3, the PC can shoot his dad 50 times in the face with the bb gun, then ask him for more bbs. They can later attack the BOS paladins at the Citadel gates, and return shortly after, to ask admittance to the Brotherhood; just try that stunt at the BOS gates in Lost Hills [FO1]

Yeah, the storytelling was a fuckup, that's why I never bring it to discussion, I simply forgot about it the second after I mention that plot pieces were stolen.

It's a shame RPGCodex scared off bethesda employees from forums, there's so much we MUST learn from them.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Here is an eye-opening interview: The FO3 experience (in the lead designer's own words):

Shit happens but who knows how many people in Obsidian played F2 not to mention less populator F1. And who cares, FNV became a masterpeace anyway. But I agree, to make better games, you must play and understand Fallout 1-2 first, it's design and philosophy.

Except that Obsidian's core team are the dev's that invented Fallout & Fallout 2; anyone new to the series there has the best mentors available to get up to speed.

FO:NV is the Fallout 2 team's best effort under the the Bethesda leash, and in the time allotted. It could have been better. They submitted ideas that Bethesda declined, and Bethesda's engine gave them no end of trouble.

 

[Kohno]

Never gets old.

 

[0wing]

Why do Emil talks so funny? This video is pure gem.

Except that Obsidian's core team are the dev's that invented Fallout & Fallout 2

I know but the core team can fuck up. Let's get back to toddlertezda. Core-team-inventorz fucked up. They infact shat TES: Oblivion, that's it.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Sad truth though... I don't think Bethesda has made many missteps; they are squarely on the path they want to be on. While I think Morrowind was better than ~anything that followed from them, their later [irritating] products are far more commercial.... It just makes more money to make Cherry Soda, than Broccoli Soda ; even if the Broccoli flavor is superbly authentic... Only so many will appreciate it. In Bethesda's case, with FO3, it's like if the 'Broccoli Soda ~reboot' kept its name and green bottle, but discarded all attempts at the namesake flavor; opting for twice the sugar & caffeine instead.

 

[Kohno]

In an effect, they didn't need anything from Fallout to make the game they wanted to make.

 

[Gizmojunk]

In an effect, they didn't need anything from Fallout to make the game they wanted to make.

Very much so.

 

[R.Graves]

Welp fallout New Vegas has the best:

• Dialogue
• NPCs
• Most interesting conflict
• Lore
• Was the first fallout game to avoid rrecycling stuff from previous games.

NV would be the perfect game If it weren't for that shitty engine and those Damn time constraints...

 

[Gizmojunk]

I prefer time constraints.
(And it annoyed me when they patched out the army invasion timer.)
RPGs without time constraints make for meaningless wandering... where otherwise the player would have to weigh and prioritize their character's time, and decide if a side trip was worth the delay in the mission. I liked the fact that the game ends if you fail; even if you fail on the way home with the water chip.

 

[R.Graves]

I prefer time constraints.
(And it annoyed me when they patched out the army invasion timer.)
RPGs without time constraints make for meaningless wandering... where otherwise the player would have to weigh and prioritize their character's time, and decide if a side trip was worth the delay in the mission. I liked the fact that the game ends if you fail; even if you fail on the way home with the water chip.

I was referring to Beth's imposed time constraints on new vegas development... I agree though. Time constraints on parts of the MQ, timed events, really specific prerequisites to events are all things that made me fall in love with the classics.