Bethesda E3 Showcase Tonight, Stream Links

[Walpknut]

Because the leveling system is an abstraction for your character training in those skills. Or you would rather have to grind skills by repeatedly doing the same task over and over again?

You also get more EXP By completing quests which usually involve skill checks and exploring, not just combat.

 

[WittyUsername]

Because the leveling system is an abstraction for your character training in those skills.

Unless your character brought a chemistry set while traveling across California, then they're training very little. With a 1 intelligence, we're lucky they didn't try to eat the chemistry set.

Or you would rather have to grind skills by repeatedly doing the same task over and over again?

That comes into the question, "how is my character smart enough to work the chemistry set?" My point is these limitations make things a little bit more realistic, more of a role to play. While previous Fallout games allow you to still champion everything, if with only a game-mechanic limiation that just asks you to get your plasma rifle and shoot a bunch of deathclaws in the middle of the map. That's just grinding, not really roleplaying.

 

[Walpknut]

They'll be training with very little, that's why it takes so long to do it.
Previous Fallouts didn't allow you to champion everything, that's Fallout 3's bag. You are acting as if getting to 100 science with 1Int was easy and fast, even tagged skills with optimal Stat allocation take a while to max out. Which is where the fallacy of your argument lies. Also on your whole misconception that Fallout games are combat centric, like I said before completing quests and passing skill checks gives you more exp than killing a pack of deathclaws. That's not grinding, yo uare activelly partaking in CONTENT and things that make you use your skills of choice. Going out int othe wasteland to farm random encounters was a sure way of wasting time and getting yourself killed.

You never played the first Fallouts, did you?

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

Don't really know how to feel about this E3 presentation. Some of the customization looks intriguing, but I'm not thrilled about the idea of losing skills in favor of a completely perk-based progression. The setting still looks more interesting than DC to me and I'm glad they're doing their own thing, but there were a lot of Brotherhood and Enclave references (okay, in fairness, the Enclave reference was limited to the armor type and that's more than acceptable to me), and I kind of wish those factions would take a break after 4 and 3 games respectively.

As usual, Bethesda is really good at the little details and minor features: the addition of games to the Pip-boy is a really fun idea, and the decision to integrate the village-building mods from 3/NV is.. smart? Plus the new Power Armor system looks a lot cooler than 3 and New Vegas'.

Oh yeah, and we knew it was coming, but man am I bummed about the voiced cinematic dialogue. It really doesn't fit into the franchise, imo, but most importantly, it doesn't even fit Bethesda's MO. Beth has never been about writing natural dialogue, and somehow I don't see it changing now. Plus, considering their jank, I expect conversations to break *all the time*.

 

[Apocalypse Jack]

If the question is: "Would I rather have some weird abstraction stand-in for training myself in certain skills or improve those skills by ACTUALLY training them?" then my answer is, first and foremost, the latter. While I certainly think there's plenty of great games that use the classic leveling formula from yesteryear to excellent effect... it has never been my ideal gameplay mechanism. I've always tolerated it, rather than preferred it. From a gameplay perspective, sure... it makes sense. Mindlessly performing the same task over and over and over again to level up would get boring for anybody.

But that's why I don't play Fallout to level up. I play Fallout because I want to experience a post-apocalyptic story in which I can choose what role I wish to play in the world. Even in the original Fallout and later Fallout 2, most of my time was spent playing out the roles I secretly like to believe I would take were I to somehow survive an apocalyptic event and find myself in a hellish wasteland. Fallout 1 usually saw me become a hired-gun for the Crimson Caravan and the Far-Go Traders. I spent most of my time following behind Brahmin Carts making sure my cargo got safely where it was headed. If I leveled up, it was because I gained experience carrying out specific actions. In turn, those actions typically got the lion's share of the skill points every level. Because to me, that just made sense. That's how you gain skills in certain things, by practicing them.

For me, a Skyrim-like skill/perk system is actually enjoyable... so long as there's a decent balance between the actions which train said skills and the speed with which those skills increase. I don't mind the idea of doing combat drills and jogging exercises in order to up things like my accuracy with small arms and run speed. What I mind is how much of it I have to do before I start seeing any kind of measurable reward. As long as they find the right balance, then for me... yes... I do want to 'grind' out those skills. You know, while I'm busy roleplaying my character as a proper soldier... or a mercenary... or just some pre-war relic of a bygone era trying to run the East Coast equivalent of Junktown.

 

[fred2]

Finally watched the presentation, I have to hand it down to Bethasda they did an amazing work, improving upon FO3 in every aspect. And while it is possible that work kept me out of touch with gaming industry, it certainly seems that some of the features\details shown were way beyond what I know many studio built their recent games around.. (honestly, I don't believe that Obsidian or Inxile could pull it off )

Concerning the dialogues\stats, it is hard to say I am disappointed because after observing what they did with Skyrim, that what I expected to see. However, I would like to read more on the lack of skill before deciding if I'll play it. (maybe they added skill based minigames i.e. the circuit boards show at start?)

Overall, I am very excited at the opportunities the game will provide for modders and hopefully the next FO:NV.

 

[WittyUsername]

They'll be training with very little, that's why it takes so long to do it.

I have a feeling someone with a low intelligence wouldn't be doing so in the first place.

Previous Fallouts didn't allow you to champion everything, that's Fallout 3's bag.

You could with a high intelligence. I admit, you can't champion everything in Fallout 2 with 1 intelligence, just not doable. When I was talking about mastering everything I was referring to those who play with 10 intel, and especially gifted.

When speaking of low intelligence and science, i was referring to the idea of playing a role. It doesn't match up.

You are acting as if getting to 100 science with 1Int was easy and fast, even tagged skills with optimal Stat allocation take a while to max out. Which is where the fallacy of your argument lies.

You have the fallacy of thinking I said it was fast and easy. It's not, I'm well aware. The point I was getting at is someone with 1 intel becoming a scientist just wouldn't happen.

Also on your whole misconception that Fallout games are combat centric, like I said before completing quests and passing skill checks gives you more exp than killing a pack of deathclaws.

I recall taking out Deathclaws and getting about 2000 or so experience. It was just faster in the end, since you find them quicker than doing a quest.

Going out int othe wasteland to famr random encounters was a sure way of wasting time and getting yourself killed.

I don't call risking death that much when I'm in APA.

You never played the first Fallouts, did you?

 

[Walpknut]

You were first saying how getting to 100 science with 1int was doable, now yo usay yo uwere refering to 10 Int and gifted? Make up your mind.

Also again, a 1 Int Scientist could easily be roleplayed as an Idiot Savant who is really good in Science after singlemindedly focusing on it for most of his life to the detriment of every other skill he has. Again the example of those people who can do advanced calculus but can't eat or talk.

Good luck taking out a pack of deathclaws at level 1, with almost no point in combat skills because you are only leveling up Science, without being able to do most quests and receiving a pittable amount of skill points per level up. Good luck also getting the PA with those conditions.

You have 2 icons on the desktop, that doesn't take away that your argument makes no sense and ignores how the games actually work.

 

[Swiffness]

Rant.

Oh cool, my old account from 12 years ago still works!

So then....

While the rest of the video gaming world basically fangirl squeals, the fanatical purists are still wailing and gnashing teeth, eh? My my my, the more things change, the more they stay the same. I have so many questions! Are you folks still pounding sand about no turn-based combat and isometric view? Are you still mad that they're not using 2D sprites? Has anyone here named their child "Van Buren" yet? ("Van Buren, what did I say about playing ARPGs?!? YOU'RE GROUNDED") Is there a reason Wasteland 2 wasn't good enough for your post-apocalyptic old school RPG fix? Not pure enough, I suppose? Ohhh right....no sprites. Dang.

Nice to see that the worst tendencies of certain fan communities [Ron Perlman voice] never changes [/Ron Perlman voice] after a long turbulent decade lol.

Dude, they said that building houses and communities was optional.

DOESN'T MATTER; ITS NOT PURE. BUILDING A SHELTER IN A VICIOUSLY HOSTILE WASTELAND IS UNREALISTIC AND HARAM.

Super Mutants (guess despite there being no FEV Super Mutants have no difficulty breeding)

Yeah, another thing that always grinded my gears was the "welp, there should be NO MORE SUPER MUTANTS EVER, BECAUSE FO1 WRAPPED UP THAT STORYLINE FOREVER" train of thought. Like - really? Putting aside the fact that militaries love redundancy and Marcus told us in FO2 that permanent FEV infertility was a misconception....this is a nice example of how continuity - while cool and all - can eventually becomes a millstone around the neck of future writers of a franchise. This is why DC Comics trashes their continuity with a crossover every 5 years, this is why Marvel started their Ultimate universe, this is why Star Trek reboot went with the alternate timeline angle ("THAT'S NOT WHAT THE NCC-1701'S BRIDGE LOOKED LIKE ಠ_ಠ"), this is why Star Wars: Episode VII's screenwriters waved goodbye to hundreds of EU novels, vidya games, and comic books where Emperor Palpatine gets cloned a billion times etc. Even Judge Dredd - which has (incredibly!!!) kept a tight real-time continuity running for 38 freaking years - is experimenting with both a dying Mega-City One and "Ultimate Marvel" style reboots. You can't chain an active franchise to classic story arcs forever.

Had I actually be in that theatre today I would probably have leaped onto the stage by now and strangled Todd Howard in front of everyone.

Why stop there? You should FLAY him!

And I am sure half the audience would be cheering as I squeezed the life out this little ubergeek.

Yeah, you could really hear the boos and hisses in the audience. They were definitely outraged about the lack of skill points and isometric turn-based combat. Furious.



A real f'n PipBoy.....that you can put your phone in......and use in-game. Good God Almighty lol. Stop getting depressed about what you can't have and appreciate what you got. The glory days are over, the world has changed, and you'll never be a kid again. Such is life. I'm not a huge fan of Bethesda, but I pretty convinced that Fallout would be wasting away on Interplay's ash heap with Descent if they hadn't come along when they did. Now, the franchise is far more popular than it ever was in the 90s. I find it amusing that there are "Fallout fans" that would have preferred to just see it die instead. It takes a true zealot to prefer death before dishonor.

 

[Deleted member 79804]

I can't believe they'd get rid of skills, I don't even see it as dumbing the game down for casual players like some of the stuff in skyrim, it's just a stupid move in general as far as game design goes, it's not like skills are hard to understand or complicated, I mean for fucks sake turning them into perks sounds more complicated. The dialog in some of those cutscenes was really disappointing and bland. I might wait to see more first but as someone who liked fallout 3 for all of the flaws it had, I am extremely disappointed with some of what I've seen here and I'm heavily considering canceling my preorder.

 

[valcik]

I started cautiosly pessimistic, now I am just completely hating thsi things guts.

Take it easy Walpknut before you'll suffer heart attack!
My guess is that those dumbed down mechanics are direct result of STEAM stats gathering. Developers know that majority of their target audience love to kill stuff and hate using complex skill system at the same time, so here we are. Demand and supply turns Fallout into striped off first-person shooter.

 

[WittyUsername]

You were first saying how getting to 100 science with 1int was doable, now yo usay yo uwere refering to 10 Int and gifted? Make up your mind.

I've already explained exactly what I was saying.

I was saying for a roleplay experience, a intel 1 scientist isn't entirely likely.

The 10 intel gifted character is, in fact, the master of everything.

At this point, you're ignoring what I'm saying.

Also again, a 1 Int Scientist could easily be roleplayed as an Idiot Savant who is really good in Science after singlemindedly focusing on it for most of his life to the detriment of every other skill he has. Again the example of those people who can do advanced calculus but can't eat or talk.

I seemed to miss the part where you spoke about the idiot savant. My apologies.

You have 2 icons on the desktop, that doesn't take away that your argument makes no sense and ignores how the games actually work.

What exactly is my argument ignoring?

 

[Hassknecht]

Watching the showcase now, Doom looks pretty awesome.
Not a fan of slo-mo weapon wheels, but I guess it's inevitable with controller-support.

 

[Walpknut]

You have 2 icons on the desktop, that doesn't take away that your argument makes no sense and ignores how the games actually work.

What exactly is my argument ignoring?

That yo uare assuming the best possible scenario while also proposing the worst case scenario possible. You are saying you could just kill deathclaws for 30 IRL days in Power Armor and max Science, yet to do that you would need to do things that the set up you are proposing closes off, and you also ignore how a low level character has a better chance leveling up from quests than from combat.

 

[WittyUsername]

That yo uare assuming the best possible scenario while also proposing the worst case scenario possible. You are saying you could just kill deathclaws for 30 IRL days in Power Armor and max Science, yet to do that you would need to do things that the set up you are proposing closes off, and you also ignore how a low level character has a better chance leveling up from quests than from combat.

I don't think I ever suggested not doing quests. I did say that it's probably faster hunt deathclaws, floaters and centaurs with the right equipment. Since you don't have to go from point A to point B to get experience, rather just find them.

 

[Walpknut]

At 1Int most quests are locked out and some give you no rewards. Also at level 1 you won't be in shape to take on most random encounters alone, and with low int you are getting no companions either.

 

[fred2]

I have to ask, why do some people here not like the jetpack power armor?

Idiosyncrasies... and (lets be honest) jealousy, so have childish knee-jerk reaction to everything Beth does..

Overall, Jet packs definitely were part of how people saw the the future in the 50\60s. Now, whether it fits well in FO4 its another question.

Spoiler

Uh, am I the only one thinks the whole house/community/defense building system is a bit over-complex?
Guess I'm getting old. :\

I tend to agree, despite usually being in favor of such things (like Pillars of Eternity stronghold, which is completely optional) the interior design decoration and the defense mini game put me off a bit.

Although I can see how the modders going to have a field day with what has been shown, I am sure someone is already planning a zombie apocalypse total conversion :/

 

[WittyUsername]

That's not exactly ignoring how the game works, however. My point is it was still possible. But the idiot character does have some extra advantages, no charisma he can raise up his other combat-oriented stats if he needed to. Endurance, Agility, strength if he wants to go close combat. Endurance doesn't really mean much until he reaches the higher levels, however. Lifegiver will help a lot when he reaches the higher level.

Granted, he won't be able to beat the game, but still.

 

[sampson70]

Here is the video of the Gameplay Demo


I just rewatched it, skills have been scrapped entirely, SPECIAL will determine everything you can even put more then 10 points on everythign and you start off with 18 on the creation menu. Well, SHIT.

Maybe they just skipped skill allocation in the demo? I'm being hopeful here.

...Also, where is that guy from the announcement thread that claimed to have insider information and said the game would run idTech 5?

Okay breathe everyone,quite a few people are saying that Tood is saying that the skills will be in the main game!!! Apparently he was interview after the the show.

 

[Walpknut]

And that is what roleplaying is, you see? You ahve to plan it out to achieve what you want, you have so many options to play it differently, now what is gained from removing that in favor of a streamlined Perk system with no skills and only SPECIAL? Nothing. Actually we lose a lot.