Bethesda-Interplay lawsuit details

Dionysus said:
Sorrow said:
Wider isn't the same as bigger - I was talking about Fallout not being some kind of an elitist game that requires incredible taste and IQ to be appreciated.
Really? Is Bethesda’s audience deeper or longer? Seriously, disregarding marketing and that sort of thing, Beth’s games have a broader appeal if only because they have more handholding. People that don’t want handholding can usually tolerate or ignore it. People that want handholding, particularly in a nonlinear game like Fallout, won’t tolerate it unless they are pressured to do so.
Sorry, I haven't met such people yet. I guess it must be something specific for America/Western Europe.

Bethesda further claims that Interplay's unapproved re-releases of Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel though the "Fallout Trilogy," "Fallout Collection" and "Saga Fallout" bundles are "confusingly similar to Fallout 3" and "are in direct competition with Bethesda's Goods and cannibalizes on sales of 'Fallout 3.'"
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/60435

Now it's clear. They want the original Fallout off the market.
 
wait a min? Canibalizing. Isnt FINO 3 canibalizing somewhat on the "name" of Fallout first ? Considering that this "franchise" never was developed by Bethesda in the first place and most of it is really done (the things behind Fallout) by Interplay a long time ago.
 
Well, I hope Interplay has some good lawyers. This whole lawsuit seems ridiculous to me.

I feel bad for the people who worked on the original games, they had to go through the whole "now you don't own it anymore" to now, if Sorrow's assumption is right ("They want the original Fallout off the market"), no one can buy and enjoy their hard work.

Perhaps, Bethesda is planning to release the originals themselves after this whole mess... after they made "improvements" to the games, that is, give them that Bethesda touch that makes all games "awesome." :roll:
 
We should quickly store all the files and memos and disk of everything about Fallout and Fallout 2 in case Bethesda wins the lawsuit and pull everything off the shelves. :o
 
I get it now.

They want to pull Fallout 1, 2 and Tactics off the shelves, tinker with them a bit adding 'OMFG AWESUM aliens!! pew pew' and then re-release them.
 
Their not going to tinker with them.They don't even tinker with their older games.

I would lean to the side that says that they will release a bundle including FO3,but even that doesn't make sense.Why would someone who owns the game want to go out and pay for it again just to get the other ones?Maybe they will just repackage the triology set so it has the Bethesda logo on it.
 
Rufus Luccarelli said:
Perhaps, Bethesda is planning to release the originals themselves after this whole mess...
The rights for the old games aren't currently up in the air. My guess is that Bethesda would let IP publish them under a label like "Fallout Classics" after the MMO issue is resolved.

But it is possible that Beth is trying to squeeze the rights to the originals out of IP by making them effectively worthless. I doubt that would work, though.
 
They wrote that they are their direct competition, so it wouldn't help as the "Fallout Classics" still would be their direct competition and still would be "cannibalizing" sales of FINO3.
 
Dionysus said:
The rights for the old games aren't currently up in the air. My guess is that Bethesda would let IP publish them under a label like "Fallout Classics" after the MMO issue is resolved.
Interplay's right to publish Fallout games is up in the air, look at Bethesda claiming that every compilation pack is in breach of contract. Beth doesn't want Interplay to sell the games and profit off of them.
 
This was seen coming the moment it was announced that Fallout Trilogy was selling that well. I'm surprised Bethesda's Legal Department took that long to take action, to be honest. Perhaps they were busy ripping apart some poor website that had the audacity to host in-game pics of a F3 DLC one hour before it was officially released or something.

Perhaps renaming the trilogy pack in a way that glorifies Fallout 3 could work.

"Outdated Fallouts Trilogy: A last-decade Post Apocalyptic Adventure of 2-pixel chairs and sluggish TB Combat"
 
Sorrow said:
They wrote that they are their direct competition, so it wouldn't help as the "Fallout Classics" still would be their direct competition and still would be "cannibalizing" sales of FINO3.
My suggestion is that they are doing this because of the MMO situation. I suspect that Beth would let IP publish the games under a label like "Fallout Classics" if they didn't currently have an adversarial legal relationship. In other words, they could be using this as leverage.

But that could be wrong. Perhaps, they are trying to completely squeeze everything out of IP. They have said some things that would support that notion.

UncannyGarlic said:
Interplay's right to publish Fallout games is up in the air, look at Bethesda claiming that every compilation pack is in breach of contract. Beth doesn't want Interplay to sell the games and profit off of them.
I mean that the rights themselves aren't currently up for grabs AFAIK. It's not as if Bethesda necessarily gains the right to publish the old games by stopping IP.
 
Dionysus said:
I mean that the rights themselves aren't currently up for grabs AFAIK. It's not as if Bethesda necessarily gains the right to publish the old games by stopping IP.
You're right but it does get rid of a competitor and Interplay would have to pay off the damages somehow or go bankrupt, both would involve the selling off of assets (in this case, IPs). I don't see Bethesda loosing this case so they will profit off of it in the short term at least.
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Sorrow said:
Tictacs is Revolutions and FINO3 is animated shorts.

What? Tactics never pretended to be a part of the core RPG series, it was always a spin off (and a pretty good one, I'm going through it right now, after modding, of course).
What he said. FFS, just enjoy Tactics for what it is and stop referring to it as Tictacs, Craptics and whatever other juvenile names you can come up with. Tactics is a solid game.
 
No, thanks, it's many names are well deserved.

I wouldn't call it solid - they made it with an assumption that it won't even try to be as good as X-Com and JA2 in tactical layer, but will have main features of Fallout - SPECIAL, TB combat, dialogues, and speech skill.
In the end it turned out that while it has Fallout's tactical combat which isn't as good on its own as X-Com and JA2 one and doesn't offer some of the basic possibilities like smoke grenades, wall breaching, or even lock-picking way to the target instead of going through a labyrinth full of foes.
Hell, even Laser Squad (1989) allowed to destroy walls.

That's why the name "Tactics" gets changed to "Craptics" and "Tictacs". Because the "Tactics" got neutered in the beginning of the game design.

Too bad that the Fallout part didn't make into the game - the world was badly made and they didn't add the speech skill and extensive use of other skills which was supposed to compensate for less tactical possibilities.

While it had good graphics, and some improvements like changing positions and attacks of opportunity, I still prefer playing X-Com3 (which is the least finished of X-Com games).
 
Enough with the kvetching about these fine hairs. Tactics was less of a game from the previous Fallouts in terms of not having solid RPG (it wasn't meant to) and in terms of having an overblown, needlessly-sprawling plotline. Fair is fair.

Other than that, it remains part of the Fallout IP. Whether as RP, or tactical-sim, is irrelevant. It's like Trek fans claiming that the movies ended during the opening credits for "Generations"...no one but Trekkies bloody well cares, especially not anyone with any power over the franchise.

It's much ado about nothing.

Now, the lawsuit, that actually means something, because it puts the mess of cards at least partially into the air, and we can hope at least that something good comes of it. Expect, no...but hope, yes.

Down to the brass tacks, then: I'm involved in an IP lawsuit myself. As a result, I've gotten a hard and fast course in the theory, law, and realpolitik of Corporate Wars. I won't suggest I'm a lawyer, but I have at least some idea of what I'm talking about.

So: It's been noted that the "Trilogy" thing is garbage. It certainly is, and it'll be thrown out readily enough when it comes to actual litigation. But even in a speedily-arranged case with a tight schedule (like the one I'm in), most of a year can pass before a Motion for Summary Judgement can be called to have the case thrown out. That eats time and resources --- even if it's just the gas money Herve will blow showing up in court sans an actual lawyer --- and Interplay doesn't have either to spare.

This applies pressure for Interplay to accept a settlement, which could include anything Bethesda might demand, if Interplay is sufficiently over the proverbial barrel.

Second, seizure of the original games doesn't just confer the ability to rework/resell them...it also confers all rights to the Content of those games. Notice the capital C there. Folks looking to develop an Intellectual Property in terms of novels or movies generally want the whole shebang, lock stock and barrel, to avoid any possibility of having to obtain permission from (and share profits with) any other potential owners of any part of the property.

To illustrate just how anal this can get, I and the company I'm suing had nearly reached a settlement where I essentially would have gotten nothing but some recognition and would even have provided free new work to the company. They were happy with that.

But then I said I wanted joint ownership of a character I'd been the primary developer of. Most of what had gone into print about this character came right from my typewriter, and he had sentimental value for me. He wasn't the least bit important to the IP's story or timeline...but the company balked, even though joint rights would mean I couldn't stop them from using that character if they chose.

When, many months later, they finally deigned to talk with me about why that deal fell through, it was exactly as I described...they feared the extremely remote possibility that a future movie or novel or game or whatever MIGHT include that ONE character, and then BAM, I'm co-owner of whatever that might be. Even if they forgot I owned the character and used him "by accident".

It's that kind of paranoia which rules in these rarified airs, folks.
 
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