Bethesda-Interplay lawsuit details

[Dionysus]

Except, if the Matrix box said on the very cover, what it contained, then only idiots and blind people could make that mistake.

Well, I must admit that I don't have a high opinion of general consumer behavior, and many people that buy games aren't buying for themselves. Honestly, if I asked my mom to get Fallout 3, it's entirely possible that she'd walk out of the store with the Fallout Trilogy. Although, it's equally possible that she'd walk out with Flatout 3.

But that's not really the point anyway. Bethesda wouldn't have approved of the "trilogy" packaging, and IP didn't seek approval.

 

[Crni Vuk]

...

See:

It says the names of the included games right on the box. If somebody bought this and then was upset that it didn't have FO3 in it, they're an idiot.

-

Edit:

Seems that there are two boxes, but this one shows the titles as well:

I guess whats really pissing of Bethesda - just my guess though - is that from the covers one might get the impression that "Bethesdas Fallout 3" might not be a "real" Fallout game while things from Interplay have the true games out there with a "Fallout" inside. But of course thats just my impression.

I doubt the idea of Bethesda is or was to crush Interplay. But fact is that usualy when it comes to advertising they are extremly paranoid.

 

[Sorrow]

And it is a little confusing for the uninitiated. If you bought a Matrix "trilogy" box set, you wouldn't expect Revolutions to be replaced by the collection of animated shorts. I can see why people would assume that the Fallout trilogy is Fallout 1-3.

Except that Fallout 3 isn't a part of the original Fallout series. It's a shooter made by people who hate the original game concept.

Tictacs is Revolutions and FINO3 is animated shorts.

Also, I suspect that it's Bethesda that got confused. Taking in account that they hate the original Fallout design, they probably can't imagine that anyone could actually want to play the original Fallout and that Fallout Trilogy would sell good because it's a good game.
No, to them Fallout Trilogy sells good because people think it's Fallout 3.

 

[Tagaziel]

Tictacs is Revolutions and FINO3 is animated shorts.

What? Tactics never pretended to be a part of the core RPG series, it was always a spin off (and a pretty good one, I'm going through it right now, after modding, of course).

 

[Dionysus]

I guess whats really pissing of Bethesda - just my guess though - is that from the covers one might get the impression that "Bethesdas Fallout 3" might not be a "real" Fallout game while things from Interplay have the true games out there with a "Fallout" inside. But of course thats just my impression.

I doubt the idea of Bethesda is or was to crush Interplay. But fact is that usualy when it comes to advertising they are extremly paranoid.

I don't think Beth really cares about whether some people on the net think FO3 is a "real" Fallout game. And I doubt that the people that use that sort of silly terminology would say that FOT is a "real" Fallout game.

They actually do want to crush IP, at least until they get their MMO rights back. I suspect that this is just one more thing that they can use to hassle IP.

 

[Crni Vuk]

They dont "care" about it? Then you must have missed a lot of Todds, Hines and Petes comments on the official forums and in the media. They definetly played a lot the "we wanted to make a true sequel" or "its Fallout in its core" card out to just get say later in other conversations "it feels closest to with Oblivion" or other similar remarks. (which revealed from that point what kind of target audience Bethesda was aiming at basically - the casual gamer - and there was a lot of discussions about that why Fallout should not aim for the "broad audience" as Ausir and others sure can confirm).

It during the development of FINO 3 Bethesda made clear how important it was that the game was meant as a "true sequel" to the old games and thus seen as a "real" Fallout game and not just some "Oblivon with guns" which has been only after some time relativized to a statement that would support the oppinion that a Oblivion with guns would be a awesome game and not that bad no mater what.

They might not care what a "few" people on the net think about FINO 3. But they definetly care how the media perceives their products. I ve been long enough in the Bethesda forum and was following their development as game designer/publisher since Morrowind to know that public relations (or in other words "Marketing") has become their new tin god.

 

[Sorrow]

Hmm...
I would say that Fallout was a game for a broad audience - I met very few people that tried it and didn't like it - those who like it included people who didn't like books/ended up without higher education, so I can't say that it was a game that required some special intelligence or something like that.
Actually, it was only one person who got bogged down in the Temple of Trials "tutorial", which I find pretty ironic .

Though, it has to be said that Fallout had a demo that allowed one to try the game out without any risk.

If anything, FINO3's target audience is narrower than Fo1's.

 

[Dionysus]

They might not care what a "few" people on the net think about FINO 3.

Well, that's all I said. It's silly to think that they are doing this in order to prevent people from thinking FO3 isn't a "real" Fallout game, if only because the people that use that sort of language probably wouldn't consider FOT to be a "real" Fallout game. It's a spin-off in a different sub-genre from a different developer.

I don't think there's a logical reason that they would have a problem with the old games selling, but they probably wouldn't approve the use of the word "trilogy" for obvious reasons, and IP is already on their shit-list because of the MMO dispute.

I ve been long enough in the Bethesda forum and was following their development as game designer/publisher since Morrowind to know that public relations (or in other words "Marketing") has become their new tin god.

Hey now, I wouldn't say that their PR is a tin god. The marketing guys are actually quite good. They certainly deserve a better metallurgical comparison than tin.

I would say that Fallout was a game for a broad audience

Broad is an ambiguous descriptor in that context. It was more broad than Descent to Undermountain, but less broad than Goldeneye.

If anything, FINO3's target audience is narrower than Fo1's.

That's just not true. I can't imagine how you could possibly think that. The simple fact that Beth makes multiplatform games indicates that their target audience is bigger.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I don't think there's a logical reason that they would have a problem with the old games selling

If they were profiting off of them, sure, but as long as they are owned by Interplay, it does nothing for Beth to have them sell. Now, refuse to approve all of the materials required to sell the game with a man like Herve in charge and you have a shot at forcing Interplay to either pay you money that they don't have or give you more rights and IPs. Herve's an idiot for signing that contract, even more so if he didn't understand it but that contract was as dickish as possible.

 

[Sorrow]

If anything, FINO3's target audience is narrower than Fo1's.

That's just not true. I can't imagine how you could possibly think that. The simple fact that Beth makes multiplatform games indicates that their target audience is bigger.

Wider isn't the same as bigger - I was talking about Fallout not being some kind of an elitist game that requires incredible taste and IQ to be appreciated. FINO3 audience is narrower as the game actually requires bad taste from the player.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Wider isn't the same as bigger - I was talking about Fallout not being some kind of an elitist game that requires incredible taste and IQ to be appreciated. FINO3 audience is narrower as the game actually requires bad taste from the player.

You make the assumption that more people have good taste than bad taste. Given the popularity of, amongst other things, reality TV, I'd wager that you're wrong.

 

[Sorrow]

I don't make such assumption. The thing is that Fallout didn't require good taste. There was plenty of content that would appeal to both people with good taste and to the ones with bad taste.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I don't think there's a logical reason that they would have a problem with the old games selling, but they probably wouldn't approve the use of the word "trilogy" for obvious reasons, and IP is already on their shit-list because of the MMO dispute

Just as there is no logical reason to really want a Star Craft sequel to be in first person (or anything else then a real time strategy) and that its sad to see a new sequel move in "old" roots of past games. Still someone said that.

Bethesda is a parnoid company when it comes to ANYTHING that could "potentialy" hurt sales even slightly. Thats the same reason as why they removed any "nuclear" reference from the Japanese FINO version and as well the nuke-town quest even when there was no sign that anyone in Japan would be bothered about that issue.

Hey now, I wouldn't say that their PR is a tin god. The marketing guys are actually quite good. They certainly deserve a better metallurgical comparison than tin.

They place "marketing" higher then "game development". If thats not some kind of "false" idea to make high quality games then I dont know what - it still sells I know, but is that cause of their good advertising or cause they make really very rich, deep and meaningfull games?. The quality of their marketing is for me not important. They definetly worship public relations above anything else when it comes to game development. And thast wrong in my eyes.

 

[Dionysus]

Wider isn't the same as bigger - I was talking about Fallout not being some kind of an elitist game that requires incredible taste and IQ to be appreciated.

Really? Is Bethesda’s audience deeper or longer? Seriously, disregarding marketing and that sort of thing, Beth’s games have a broader appeal if only because they have more handholding. People that don’t want handholding can usually tolerate or ignore it. People that want handholding, particularly in a nonlinear game like Fallout, won’t tolerate it unless they are pressured to do so.

Just as there is no logical reason to really want a Star Craft sequel to be in first person (or anything else then a real time strategy) and that its sad to see a new sequel move in "old" roots of past games.

Sure there is. If one prefers games that offer a FP perspective, then one might say that. You should understand that there's a big difference between what one guy writes on his blog, and the activity of a company's legal department. Your theory is more than a little naive. This lawsuit has nothing to do with whether consumers will think that FO3 is a "real" FO game. That doesn't even make sense.

 

[Ausir]

Shacknews has some quotes from the court filing:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/60435

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

God honestly, can't some meteor wipe these fuck faces from the Earth's surface?
They waste space, resources, and all of them are an annoyance to the rest of the human species.

I am so sick and tired of this Bethesda legal tug of war with butt monkey Herve Caine.

I wish both would crawl into some corner and die.

 

[Ausir]

I made a wiki page for the lawsuit(s):

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bethesda_Softworks_LLC_v._Interplay_Entertainment_Corporation

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Shacknews has some quotes from the court filing:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/60435

Man, Bethesda are slimy weasels, but if they can put the final nail in Interplay's coffin, I'll take it.

Interplay argues that Masthead's project, codenamed Project V13, is not the Fallout MMO. However, Bethesda claims that V13 is a reference to Vault 13, "both the starting location and the the initial working title of the original Fallout game." In addition, concept art for Project V13 contains references to the Fallout universe, such as "Nuka Cola."

Herve's stupidity know no depths.


And Bethesda actually wants damages from Interplay?
Heh, better luck getting blood from a stone.


Man, Bethesda is really going to skullfuck Interplay.

 

[Ausir]

Is it me or were they using The Vault while writing the lawsuit?

Bethesda claims that V13 is a reference to Vault 13, "both the starting location and the the initial working title of the original Fallout game."

From The Vault's V13 FAQ:

What does "V13" stand for?

It likely stands for Vault 13, which was the starting location in the original Fallout. Vault 13: A GURPS Post-Nuclear Adventure was also the initial working title of what eventually became Fallout.

I knew that the devs were using my wiki, didn't know the legal department did as well.

 

[Gaspard]

Ausir, don't you have a line somewhere on your Wiki that would net you, say, 10% of Beth's profits on Fallout 3 if you took legal action ?

Because.. well, you did some freelancing piecing together all the 'source material' the developers could ever need (10 minutes of playing the original games must not have been enough, surely)