Bethesda tires of spending money to support pirates

mlk said:
I hate pirates with all my heart, I can only imagine they are a huge part as to why the game market sucks so bad today for the PC compared to 10 years ago when we had so many more games available and so many different games than today.

I believe it to be the fact that video games are entering the mainstream. The need for mass-market appeal has a homogenizing effect on any media. Pirates, scurvy dogs that they might be, undoubtedly have some effect but are probably more of a convenient scapegoat.

This sort of thing is hard if not impossible to quantify, though.
 
All I have to say is, "Karma is a bitch!" giving exclusive content to the 360 ONLY and that system being the first one to pirate this game. I love it. I am still gonna buy it for PS3 because I am a huge fan but this is just funny to me. All that money to fund the game on the Xbrick and this is how they repay you Bethesda. :)

Brother None said:
There's a heavy dose of irony on this article that talks about PC piracy mostly, but still the central point stands:<blockquote>Hines discussed the problem of piracy with MTV Multiplayer just days before, ironically, the Xbox 360 version of “Fallout 3″ leaked. Piracy is still far more prevalent on the PC side, which has serious implications for studios like Bethesda Softworks, whose development bread-and-butter has been PCs.

“It is probably the most…[long pause]…probably the most difficult issue specifically facing PC gaming right now,” said somberly-toned “Fallout 3″product manager Pete Hines to me after playing four hours of his new game a few weeks ago. “How are we gonna walk that line?”
(...)
“The amount of times we see stuff coming through where it’s like, the resolution to the problem was [the] guy had a pirated copy of the game…” said a visibly frustrated Hines. “The amount of money we spend supporting people who didn’t pay us for the game in the first place…it’s f–ing ludicrous. We talk to other developers, guys who are [like] ‘Yeah, it’s a third, it’s 50% of our [customer] support.’”</blockquote>
 
Solution: Stop releasing games for the PC... and then you'll lose even more sales.

The games industry is going down with the rest of the economy, so it will soon become a moot point.

I hate pirates almost as much as the CEOs with their golden parachutes!
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Sorrow said:
I don't really understand the tech support thing - I never used it.

You're not the center of the world. I know it comes as a surprise.

I've never used tech support either, except once a few years ago when there was a printing error than necessitated e-mailing the company for a new registration number.

To me, asking a company for tech support seems less efficient than reading a forum. I've never had any trouble finding the answers I needed on fan forums. Either someone posts a fix, or you find out you have to wait for a patch.
 
Ixyroth said:
Solution: Stop releasing games for the PC... and then you'll lose even more sales.

The games industry is going down with the rest of the economy, so it will soon become a moot point.

I hate pirates almost as much as the CEOs with their golden parachutes!

And that is why you hope the wind carries them into a tree so you can light a fire under them!

Well if a Pirate was dumb enough to call tech support. they should get his info and call the cops on him.
 
Leon said:
mlk said:
I hate pirates with all my heart, I can only imagine they are a huge part as to why the game market sucks so bad today for the PC compared to 10 years ago when we had so many more games available and so many different games than today.

I believe it to be the fact that video games are entering the mainstream. The need for mass-market appeal has a homogenizing effect on any media. Pirates, scurvy dogs that they might be, undoubtedly have some effect but are probably more of a convenient scapegoat.

This sort of thing is hard if not impossible to quantify, though.

Honestly, videogames were main stream since late 80s.. yet during the 90s we saw incredible games like the Quest series from Sierra, games like Tie fighter, fallout, The Dig, Daggerfall, Syndicate, Sim city, command and conquer, Doom, I mean just compare that to todays endless doom copies and command and conquer copies... companies simply don't dare to do anything new because they know they won't make any profit.. why? Due to people just stealing the games
 
Ixyroth said:
Solution: Stop releasing games for the PC... and then you'll lose even more sales.
Really depends on whether or not they're selling enough to justify a PC port in the first place.
I think EA Sports stopped making PC ports recently because of this.

Also,
GarnetKrowe said:
Piracy sucks!!
A quick glace at your post history nominates you for the prestigious Bestest Poster Evar Award™!
 
mlk said:
I hate pirates with all my heart, I can only imagine they are a huge part as to why the game market sucks so bad today for the PC compared to 10 years ago when we had so many more games available and so many different games than today.
I blame people that don't buy games that I/they like and I hate them with all my heart.
Lack of piracy doesn't change anything if people still don't buy games and there's no need for anti-piracy if people buy them anyway.

For example AusGameDev had poor sales without any help of pirates.

BTW. After reading the other thread, I find it amusing that people get so fanatical in defending interests of people who lack basic work ethics and go as far as trying to deny basic consumer rights to their clients.

mlk said:
Honestly, videogames were main stream since late 80s.. yet during the 90s we saw incredible games like the Quest series from Sierra, games like Tie fighter, fallout, The Dig, Daggerfall, Syndicate, Sim city, command and conquer, Doom, I mean just compare that to todays endless doom copies and command and conquer copies... companies simply don't dare to do anything new because they know they won't make any profit.. why? Due to people just stealing the games
I think that we need to compare the cost of making those games with costs of making modern games. Did making Doom or Syndicate cost 15 000 000 $?
 
mlk said:
Honestly, videogames were main stream since late 80s.. yet during the 90s we saw incredible games like the Quest series from Sierra, games like Tie fighter, fallout, The Dig, Daggerfall, Syndicate, Sim city, command and conquer, Doom, I mean just compare that to todays endless doom copies and command and conquer copies... companies simply don't dare to do anything new because they know they won't make any profit.. why? Due to people just stealing the games

When I say "mainstream", I mean to say that it appeals to an extremely broad number of demographics.

It wasn't until this decade that games became a casual mainstream thing. My mother, for instance, wants a Wii. Before the introduction of that console, video games were just a kids' thing to her. I believe it safe to say that many people in her age group (45+) feel/felt the same way as she, as evidenced by her friends and some older folk I have talked to in stores and the like.

Sorrow said:
I blame people that don't buy games

This is another thing. The quality of a game and its appeal to its intended (and sometimes unintended) markets has much more to do with its sales than piracy. A pirated copy of a game is not a guaranteed sale lost.

Hypothetically, I could download the latest Adobe Creative Suite, which runs something in the area of $2,000. I have no intention of buying it either way, for various reasons, but would my pirating of this software equate to Adobe losing a sale, and/or taking a $2,000 hit in their profit margins? Who is denied something? What? How? Why?

As a disclaimer, I do not condone piracy, but neither do I condone the use of it as a blanket excuse to cover other, more pressing issues. Piracy is quite frankly unavoidable, and the cost of doing business, and it's nigh impossible to effectively quash without punishing legitimate consumers in the process.
 
Leon said:
As a disclaimer, I do not condone piracy, but neither do I condone the use of it as a blanket excuse to cover other, more pressing issues. Piracy is quite frankly unavoidable, and the cost of doing business, and it's nigh impossible to effectively quash without punishing legitimate consumers in the process.
In fact, what happens nowadays is that legitimate consumers feel a lot of discomfort and limitations, while the pirated versions have all those problems stripped out.

In other words, the anti-piracy measure hit only the paying consumers.
 
Leon said:
When I say "mainstream", I mean to say that it appeals to an extremely broad number of demographics.

In 1982 my mother played the Atari 2600 as much as I did. I'm not sure if you were around then, but before the 'crash' of the early 80's games were HUGE.

It took a long time for them to regain foothold comparable to what it was when they first hit the scene.
 
MMO's make money don't they? They also get pirated and they still make fat loot.

So... Bethsoft.. Go get a tissue and make a MMO.
 
"Bethesda tires of spending money to support pirates"

Newsflash-
Consumers tire of playing shitty games
 
I hate to be the devil's advocate here but blaming pirates for everything is pure crap, plain and simple.

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9721/Game+Designer+Asks+'Why+Do+People+Pirate+My+Games?'

The semi-political ones

I got a few people churning out long arguments about whether or not intellectual property is valid, and claiming that it was censorship, or fascism and other variations on this theme. I'm used to reading all this, and find it completely unconvincing, and to be honest, silly. The really interesting news was that this was a trivial proportion of the total replies.

Money

This *did* surprise me. A LOT of people cited the cost of games as a major reason for pirating. Many were kids with no cash and lots of time to play games, but many were not. I got a lot of peoples life stories, and a ton of them were my age. Even those who didn't cite cost as their main reason almost always mentioned it at some stage. A lot of anger was directed at the retail $60 games, and console games. People in Australia were especially annoyed about higher prices there. My games were $19-23, but for a lot of people, it was claimed this was far too high. People talked a lot about impulse buying games if they were much cheaper.

Game Quality

This was a big complaint too. And this also surprised me. I have a very low opinion of most new games, especially triple A ones, but it seems I'm not alone. Although there were many and varied complaints about tech support, game stability, bugs and system requirements, it was interesting to hear so many complaints about actual game design and gameplay. Not a single person said they had felt ripped off by a game due to substandard visuals or lack of content. The consensus was that games got boring too quickly, were too derivative, and had gameplay issues. Demos were widely considered to be too short and unrepresentative of the final product. People suspected that the full game was no better than the demo. Almost everyone had a tale of a game that was bought based on hype which turned out to be disappointing.

DRM

This was expected, but whereas many pirates who debate the issue online are often abusive and aggressive on the topic, most of the DRM complaints were reasonable and well put. People don't like DRM, we knew that, but the extent to which DRM is turning away people who have no other complaints is possibly misunderstood. If you wanted to change ONE thing to get more pirates to buy games, scrapping DRM is it. These gamers are the low hanging fruit of this whole debate.

Digital Distribution

Lots of people claimed to pirate because it was easier than going to shops. Many of them said they pirate everything that's not on Steam. Steam got a pretty universal thumbs up from everyone. I still don't get how buying from steam is any different to buying from me, other than you may already have an account on steam. For the record, I'd love to get my games on steam. I wish it was that easy.

Confessions

I got a few people, maybe 5% of the total, who basically said "I do it because I like free stuff and won't get caught. I'd do the same with anything if I knew I'd get away with it." This is depressing, but thankfully a small minority. I also got the occasional bit of abuse and sarcasm from hardcore pirates who have decided I am their enemy. Who would have thought that would happen? They give the other 99% of pirates a bad name, and are the reason people don't listen to pirates.

Not to mention we have those that duplicate even though they have it to keep the original discs intact because it's easier, this happens more with video than software mind you but it is still a minor fraction.

My point is that pirates aren't all heartless, it's Cashgrab Inc's spin that gets people to thinking that all they want is a free thrill and don't expect anything in return.

Another truly uneducated assumption is that pirates don't know what's what in a computer, more often than not it's not easy to install a hacked game, you need a myriad of software for tricking the DRM systems that are build into the core code in some games and in others, only the 12 yr old morons who think that getting a copy off the internet is easier than getting it from a shop.

9 times out of 10 you'll find that the pirates who've got more than a set of private's stripes will know their way around their rig better than some compshops, not saying that piracy is a window into computer enlightenment, but piracy is not without it's dangers (aside from litigation) because of the holy zealots and jerks out there who poison files and make false uploads causing anything from a basic bug, to a HDD crasher virus snuck into the code, although the latter is about as uncommon as me finding a golden thread in my hair it has been known to happen.

Especially in the early days of it, when warez sites were as promiscuous as rabbits in springtime they were fraught with so many erroneous files that you had to be insane not to lockdown, quarantine, and have a secondary machine set up as a buffer to pre-test the file's validity before actually installing.

To say they're heartless bastards is really ignorant, try reading up a bit on what the hell they're doing it for, why they exist, and the situations that create each variation of pirate before you wave your holy wand of smiting at the poor sod, because otherwise you're no better than a bethdrone.[/quote]
 
Well put, Mord_Sith.

The shades of gray are the most important, as the stark contrasts are often just belligerent and misrepresentative minorities.
 
Leon said:
Sorrow said:
I blame people that don't buy games

This is another thing. The quality of a game and its appeal to its intended (and sometimes unintended) markets has much more to do with its sales than piracy. A pirated copy of a game is not a guaranteed sale lost.
Funny thing about the game dev I was talking about - a lot of gamers said that they didn't buy that game because they didn't have money and some said that they didn't buy it because they didn't have a credit card.
So, people without money always result in lack of sales whenever there is piracy or there isn't. That's why I hate people without money. They are scum.

Leon said:
Who is denied something? What? How? Why?
I don't know, but I think that game developers should be banned from using public libraries. And their kids too.

Money

This *did* surprise me. A LOT of people cited the cost of games as a major reason for pirating. Many were kids with no cash and lots of time to play games, but many were not. I got a lot of peoples life stories, and a ton of them were my age. Even those who didn't cite cost as their main reason almost always mentioned it at some stage. A lot of anger was directed at the retail $60 games, and console games. People in Australia were especially annoyed about higher prices there. My games were $19-23, but for a lot of people, it was claimed this was far too high. People talked a lot about impulse buying games if they were much cheaper.
Personally, I don't buy anything over 35 Polish Gold Pieces (its' about 15$) unless I get a big sum of money in one go, which happens pretty rarely. I even have to save money a week or two to get those 35 PGP. The last game I bought was for 6 Polish Gold Pieces - it was in TESCO - ironically, it's still in sale by it's world publisher and it costs 55$ to buy online. There's no way I'd buy it if I would have to pay a full price.
When I see prices of games and music I just shake my head. Hey, but I can legally steal from musicans by buying used music CDs for 25 PGP.

And the thing that I'm most proud of - I love stealing books - i.e. read them without paying their authors - I have borrowed 3000 PGP worth of novels and scientific books from libraries. I just love the thrill of hunting books in the library and the sweet, sweet knowledge that I'm depriving the writers of their bread and butter :mrgreen: .

I got a few people, maybe 5% of the total, who basically said "I do it because I like free stuff and won't get caught. I'd do the same with anything if I knew I'd get away with it." This is depressing, but thankfully a small minority.
Yeah, sometimes (though rarely) I meet such people. Their attitude makes me sick.
 
Sorrow said:
And the thing that I'm most proud of - I love stealing books - i.e. read them without paying their authors - I have borrowed 3000 PGP worth of novels and scientific books from libraries. I just love the thrill of hunting books in the library and the sweet, sweet knowledge that I'm depriving the writers of their bread and butter

You sick bastard. :freak:
 
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