Irwin John Finster
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Underrail and Wasteland 2 did a pretty good job of "fixing" Fallout 4, in that they're better successors to the Fallout series and they are actual RPGs.
Bethesda took DLC wrong way overall...
- Thread starter 0wing
- Start date
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Operation Wignut
USSDF Riot Squad
I'd say even Dust was a better successor to the Fallout series than 4. Dust furthered the story of the Mojave in an intuitive way, that made a setting I had played many times before seem fresh and new.
I mean, if I can get something that fixes a game I bought out of ignorance for free, I'd much rather have that than spend money on a new game.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
It's sad for the modders, really. But I can only laugh at Bethesda's futile attempt at introducing console audience to a proper modding scene. They wanted to rely on "mods will fix it" attitude, yet somehow managed to fuck up modders by completely limiting whatever capability the CK can do.
Thinking about what mods are the most famous on the internet, like ultra-realistic graphics and lighting really underestimates the true strength of mods. Fucking casuals.
0wing
Все умрут, а я волномут
Too combat-oriented for rpg. Underrail with it's dedicated "Kill X of Y enemy type" achievements is one of the worse case scenarios.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
Just cause something is combat oriented does not mean that it isn't RPG. An RPG doesn't 'have to' include a pacifist option. Now if we were talking about something like Diablo or Torchlight then yeah, I'd say those aren't RPG's because they are too focused on combat and lack most other RPG elements. But Underrail? Dialogue branching, multiple quest solutions, vastly different character paths you can take with choice and consequence for each, multiple factions to join and either help or destroy. Hell IIRC you can pretty much kill any character you want to as well.
Wasteland 2 is a bit different but it was never meant to first and foremost be an RPG. It's meant to be a combination of elements from strategic turn-based squad-based combat and RPG and it did that just fine. It's meant to be a combat-oriented game. But ultimately the question is if you can roleplay in it and yeah, I'd say that the game offers you enough options to roleplay, but it's very bare.
Neither of the two are successors to Fallout though. Just alternatives. A spiritual successor to Fallout would play and feel like Fallout and neither Wasteland or Underrail fit that. Underrail comes close, but not close enough.
0wing
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Well, that's the problem #1. Everyone tried to shoehorn these as Fallout successors just because it's post-apoc and it's isometric plus some sort of stat system. Just like that.
Nope, it doesn't work that way.
And I don't know about you guys but WL2's attempts in humour made me cringe.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
1. I agree. I think they're great games but they're hardly replacements for Fallout.
2. I never cringed, some of the stuff I just didn't find funny but I never cringed.
2. I never cringed, some of the stuff I just didn't find funny but I never cringed.
0wing
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Monty Python jokes are really got old since F2 for example. Nope? Enjoy mutated rabbit monsters.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
But... They are just creatures part of the Wasteland setting... They were in Wasteland 1. It's not a monty python reference. I mean going by this logic you could never 'ever' have a humanoid monster creature that dwells in the waters without it being a reference to the creature from the black lagoon. Not everything is a monty python reference just cause you can draw parallels between the two.
0wing
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I know it. I can stomach such things in WL1 based on the fact that it's wacky wasteland game from the 80s but WL2 is not from the 80s. And don't even start on 'backers' easter eggs that striked PoE too.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
So what? It isn't like there were many, if any, "Kill X of Y enemy type" quests.
Eh, Wasteland 2 I can understand. But every time someone talk about Underrail, most of them would end their discussion with, "In the end Underrail managed to do its own thing". Sure, you've heard many saying how Underrail is "the REAL Fallout 3" but only very few of them, while Wasteland 2 even TotalBiscuit admitted how it felt like an actual sequel/successor to Fallout 2.
Seriously, go to just about any discussion of Underrail, especially in the Codex, and see for yourself how many of them admitted Underrail still managed to felt like its own thing, especially since the writings and narrative of Underrail is well below that of Fallout.
This just strikes me as odd. I remember there were some people who were ACTUALLY disappointed how Wasteland 2 didn't felt like a proper sequel to Wasteland 1, but instead felt like a sequel to Fallout 2. I haven't played Wasteland 1, let alone Wasteland 2, but isn't it actually good if Wasteland 2 felt like a sequel to Wasteland 1? What did you expected of Wasteland 2 when you played it, anyway?
0wing
Все умрут, а я волномут
And quests will have a lot 'Kill a thing' anyway.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
So?
0wing
Все умрут, а я волномут
Were are starting circlejerking. Game's heavy focused on combat. Period. IDK what @Black Angel arguing about.
Irwin John Finster
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Wasteland 2 is great and now that InXile has a few games under their belt Wasteland 3 will probably be even better. I think it might have been better to go with the pre-rendered backgrounds like Pillars though but either way it came out great.
Also all the critics of Underrail are forgetting that this game costs only $15 and was essentially made by 1 person with help from few others. I'm way more immersed in the world of Underrail than Fallout 4 that's for sure.
Also all the critics of Underrail are forgetting that this game costs only $15 and was essentially made by 1 person with help from few others. I'm way more immersed in the world of Underrail than Fallout 4 that's for sure.
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Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
And? Is it wrong? I mean, okay, you're not fine with people shoving down your throat, "Underrail is the REAL Fallout 3!" but like I said, compared to Wasteland 2, Underrail's not really recognized as Fallout successor, to the point of that people will always be pointing out how Underrail did its' own thing.
I should be the one saying that. What are YOU arguing about by bringing achievements that seemingly only YOU care about? What's the point?
Like I said, there's not much "Kill X amount of Y type of enemy", and yeah there still "Kill things" quests anyway, but what's your point?
0wing
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Well, it's very easy to judge what's the game about without even looking at it first. Underrail? Kill X targets, Miss Y times, Survive a battle at 1 HP. You know, combat. You brought quests, okay. That's not wrong they are all combat, that's a matter of fact. To stop circlejerk - no point, just a little dislike on hypocrisy. TB or RTwP, combat focus won't be any amazing. Not that worse too but not awesome either. Especially not awesome.
Like lots of other games. Axiom Verge, NEO Scavenger for example. And? One my good friend builds a game being one person.
F2 TC's remains built by small teams and individuals too(quanity of 1-3(at least active)).
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Irwin John Finster
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
What's your point? Could Underrail be better? Yes of course.
Underrail is a great game. Wasteland 2 is a great game. Both are far more immersive and better post-apocalyptic RPGs than Fallout 4.
1 guy made a better Fallout-style/post-apocalyptic RPG than the entirety of Bethesda Studios and at a fraction of the price. It costs as much as their garbage Workshop DLC.
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Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
Holy fuck, and Fallout also Kill X targets, Miss Y times, Survive a battle at Z HP, what's wrong with that, mate?!
What the fuck? Did you even play the fucking game?
Then I can safely assume you didn't even play the game. Yeah, Underrail's focus and strength lies in its combat, but quests designs certainly ain't focused on combat, especially since there are factions who valued non-combat skills, and one of them can only be joined with NO COMBAT AT ALL. There's a reason why people are still calling Underrail's being awesome (especially because of a certain faction), but not exactly because it's Fallout-successor. I get it, you don't like people shoving Underrail "the REAL Fallout 3!" down your throat, but you're making it such a big deal as if it's any bigger than Wasteland 2 in terms of that. Irwin John Finster merely expressed his opinion that in comparison to Fallout 4, Underrail managed to do much better. But your initial problems with that, because the fucking achievements imply it's too combat-oriented, and from there you assume every quests is combat quests? Play the game, mate.
The point is Irwin John Finster simply brings up games that's manage to do what Fallout 4 supposed to do, and they do it better than Fallout 4. Did the game you brought up managed to do what Fallout 4 was supposed to do, i.e as a Fallout game?
Like I said, at the end of the day Underrail managed to do its own thing, but in 2015, compared to Fallout 4, Underrail felt more Fallout than Fallout 4. On side note, it's Wasteland 2 that's felt more problematic in this matter because, like I said before, Wasteland 2 felt more like a Fallout sequel, instead of Wasteland sequel, it shows and that's disappointing for people expecting a Wasteland 1 sequel.
0wing
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It's succeded do what Fallout 4 exactly tries to do but in classic fasion, i.e. in isometric and turn-based.
Yes I know some factions appreciates non-combat skills but the game's focus is on other things.
I looked into it already, thanks, stop being like this. I just said it's very easy to judge what's the game does by those achievements. F:NV's ones also includes other activities like completing quests, using perks and exploring for example while Underrail does not.
Yes, it's better than Fallout 4 but that's about it.
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