Bethesda v. Interplay: Now with more transcripts

[Galvan]

What would be fun, if someome responsible for Fallout 1 (Or even 2 for that matter ... ) would get inside Interplay and in charge over the company and criticize Herve and the people responsible for the lay down of Van Buren in favour for some kind of Console game like BoS.

To be fair, Van Buren wasn't cancelled in favor of Fallout: Enforcer. In fact, I'm quite sure Enforcer went into production a considerable amount of time before Van Buren.

 

[Morbus]

Fallout Enforcer? WTF is that?

Fallout 3 was cancelled in order for them to finish FOPOS and THEN proceed with Fallout 3, with the money they would gain from FOPOS. It was a bad move because it was obvious Fallout 3 would always make more money than FOPOS.

 

[Galvan]

Fallout Enforcer? WTF is that?

Know your memes, son.

Fallout: Enforcer as in X-Com: Enforcer - an action game in an otherwise cerebral series. This name was widely used here, on DaC and on the Codex as well. I find it more clever than the juvenile PoS moniker.

Fallout 3 was cancelled in order for them to finish FOPOS and THEN proceed with Fallout 3, with the money they would gain from FOPOS.

Cancelled means "cancelled", not "on hold". While I suspect there was at least one aborted attempt at making Fallout 3 before, I'm pretty sure project Van Buren started production after Brotherhood of Steel.

It was a bad move because it was obvious Fallout 3 would always make more money than FOPOS.

If Interplay couldn't afford to make Fallout 3, how were they supposed to, well, make Fallout 3?

There are lots of reasons to hate on Brotherhood of Steel - it's a horrible, unimaginative product that taints the IP. However, nothing leads me to believe it was somehow chosen over a proper Fallout 3.

 

[Morbus]

Know your memes, son.

Fallout: Enforcer as in X-Com: Enforcer - an action game in an otherwise cerebral series. This name was widely used here, on DaC and on the Codex as well. I find it more clever than the juvenile PoS moniker.

Harharhar! Juvenile Morbus that's Galvan's son is juvenile Galvan's son! Harharhar!

Cancelled means "cancelled", not "on hold".

On the other hand, "on hold" means "canceled", so it's all good.

While I suspect there was at least one aborted attempt at making Fallout 3 before, I'm pretty sure project Van Buren started production after Brotherhood of Steel.

I seem to recall something like that, but when each game's production started is irrelevant. Brotherhood of Steel would take, back in that day, about a year with a team of 20 people to develop, while Fallout 3 would take much more than that.

If that's what you mean.

If Interplay couldn't afford to make Fallout 3, how were they supposed to, well, make Fallout 3?

They were supposed to make Fallout 3 BY MAKING FALLOUT 3, that's how! I don't care if they had the money or not, if they focused their manpower on Fallout 3 (and I'm not saying earlier than late 2003 or anything, I'm saying in their situation as of then), at least they'd have come closer to finishing the game and maybe they could convince investors or whatever. AND IF THEY DIDN'T! Then it would be a problem: they would end half-dead like they eventually did. It's a no brainer: you have to go down a cliff, but your exausted and are too tired to make it all the way down. You have two options: you either throw yourself into the wind and you'll die (i.e. releasing FOPOS) or you'll try to climb down and you'll probably die (i.e. keep developing Fallout 3).

And pray for a stamina potion on a rock halfway down the hill...

There are lots of reasons to hate on Brotherhood of Steel - it's a horrible, unimaginative product that taints the IP. However, nothing leads me to believe it was somehow chosen over a proper Fallout 3.

What you believe or not is irrelevant. Show me proof that they DIDN'T chose FOPOS over Fallout 3 and I'll hear what you have to say.

Yes, because I'm a bit too busy to search for proof that I know exists that Fallout 3 was put on hold in favor of FOPOS. Including claims from Sawyer (I think) that by buying FOPOS we'd be enticing interplay to develop Fallout 3. We said it back then and we say it again: fuck you! By buying FOPOS we're enticing Interplay to develop FOPOS2, which was already planned.

They tanked hard for the incompetence of Caen (I think) and it was well deserved. Thank god (or whoever) that sometimes bad companies that don't care about their costumers get what they deserve. And that's why I'm rooting that Interplay wins this case. Bethesda very much deserves to get what they deserve. Even if Interplay is just another pile of crap. But I don't care: Interplay is capable enough of punishing themselves, as they did in the past.

 

[Ausir]

Cancelled means "cancelled", not "on hold". While I suspect there was at least one aborted attempt at making Fallout 3 before, I'm pretty sure project Van Buren started production after Brotherhood of Steel.

I'm pretty sure it was in production before BOS, although it was never officially announced.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

It was a bad move because it was obvious Fallout 3 would always make more money than FOPOS.

If Interplay couldn't afford to make Fallout 3, how were they supposed to, well, make Fallout 3?

If they had the resources to make FOBoS and start planning on FOBoS2 and Tactics2, they had the resources to make Fallout 3, if they budgeted it correctly. They very well may have ended up needing to sell off assets before finishing Fallout 3 (though I doubt it given the supposed state it was in when it was canceled) but regardless, they would have been in better shape than making BoS, which lost them money and was failed to doom from the start. BoS is the type of game that caused the crash in the '80s, it was a cheap clone with bad gameplay.

 

[Galvan]

I don't care if they had the money or not, if they focused their manpower on Fallout 3 (and I'm not saying earlier than late 2003 or anything, I'm saying in their situation as of then), at least they'd have come closer to finishing the game and maybe they could convince investors or whatever.

What manpower? Would you want a Fallout 3 designed by Chuck Cuevas' team? In the meanwhile, most Black Isle people - including Sawyer - were working on Baldur's Gate III, which had potential to be as profitable as another Fallout RPG, if not more so.

What you believe or not is irrelevant. Show me proof that they DIDN'T chose FOPOS over Fallout 3 and I'll hear what you have to say.

Oh, come on. Show me a proof they did. It's a dead end.

I'm pretty sure it was in production before BOS, although it was never officially announced.

As I said in my earlier post, I think it's very likely that some iteration of Fallout 3 was being worked on long before Brotherhood of Steel. In fact, Jason Manley pretty much confirmed it. However, I doubt that version of the game had much in common with Van Buren going on the dates in design documents.

In addition, I seem to remember that Brotherhood of Steel was referred to as project Quincy internally and John Quincy Adams comes before Martin Van Buren. Well, duh.

Then again, I don't think it was ever confirmed that BoS was project Quincy, so there's a rather big possibility I'm wrong

 

[Morbus]

What manpower? Would you want a Fallout 3 designed by Chuck Cuevas' team?

What the fuck are you smoking? Do you think Sawyer ended up designing FOPOS?

In the meanwhile, most Black Isle people - including Sawyer - were working on Baldur's Gate III, which had potential to be as profitable as another Fallout RPG, if not more so.

IF I remember correctly (and that's a fairly big if), Baldur's Gate rights were already sold to BioWare at that stage. They may have been working on Jefferson (or TORN even, I don't know if it was scrapped already by late 2003), but that doesn't mean anything: they canceled Fallout 3 so they could put a spinoff on the market.

Oh, come on. Show me a proof they did. It's a dead end.

Go find yourself, wtf?! Do you think I have time to humor uninformed trolls? WTF? It should be pretty easy if you got february 2004 here in our news archive...

 

[Brother None]

Easy there, no need to get heated.

If they had the resources to make FOBoS and start planning on FOBoS2 and Tactics2, they had the resources to make Fallout 3, if they budgeted it correctly.

If they hadn't cancelled three promising projects in a row (TORN, BG3, FO3) they might've made money at some point. Ifs and buts don't turn for nothing.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Its widely accepted and known around here that Fallout 3 by Interplay was canceled more or less for other less interesting projects like Brotherhood of Steel and BoS 2 ... which was not even a good game if you forget about Fallout.

 

[Ausir]

As I said in my earlier post, I think it's very likely that some iteration of Fallout 3 was being worked on long before Brotherhood of Steel. In fact, Jason Manley pretty much confirmed it. However, I doubt that version of the game had much in common with Van Buren going on the dates in design documents.

In addition, I seem to remember that Brotherhood of Steel was referred to as project Quincy internally and John Quincy Adams comes before Martin Van Buren. Well, duh.

Then again, I don't think it was ever confirmed that BoS was project Quincy, so there's a rather big possibility I'm wrong

You're wrong. Qunicy was Lionheart. The presidential codename system was an internal Black Isle thing and FO:BOS had nothing to do with Black Isle.

Van Buren was also in pre-production for several years before being put in full production.

In the meanwhile, most Black Isle people - including Sawyer - were working on Baldur's Gate III, which had potential to be as profitable as another Fallout RPG, if not more so.

Until it turned out that Herve somehow lost even the tiniest shreds of IPLY's D&D license that were left at that point.

However, I doubt that version of the game had much in common with Van Buren going on the dates in design documents.

The leaked design documents were written based on much earlier outlines by Chris Avellone, based on his PnP sessions.

 

[Ausir]

What manpower? Would you want a Fallout 3 designed by Chuck Cuevas' team?

Actually, one of the people on Chuck's team was also one of the original Fallout designers.

 

[Briosafreak]

However, nothing leads me to believe it was somehow chosen over a proper Fallout 3.

It was, I was working here at NMA and knew since July 2003 Jim Molitor had that option in his hands, coming from the console side of Interplay it was easy for him choose FOBOS over Van Buren.

That's why Interplay never officially announced it, they knew that if they didn't get a new partner or some money from Vivendi they had to cancel one of the projects and fire people away, so when they stroke a deal with Vivendi that pretty much left them without fresh cash for a quarter, they killed Van Buren and moved on to FOBOS and FOBOS2.

Wrong pick, company goes down.

 

[Galvan]

You're wrong. Qunicy was Lionheart.

Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

Until it turned out that Herve somehow lost even the tiniest shreds of IPLY's D&D license that were left at that point.

It was, I was working here at NMA and knew since July 2003 Jim Molitor had that option in his hands, coming from the console side of Interplay it was easy for him choose FOBOS over Van Buren.

Then I rest my case. Again, thanks for clearing that up.