Bethesda's Lore Recons

[Someguy37]

I understand a tanker full of an entire CREW sailing for a distance. I understand a river boat with a captain sailing for a small distance. However these don't compare to two people, alone sailing the FUCKING ATLANTIC OCEAN.

Great comparisons, really good!

The distance Tobar sailed between the Commonwealth and the Broken Banks, by himself, is nearly 900 miles. Also, the tanker hobos weren't a crew, they were hobos.

People sail the Atlantic ocean by themselves IRL. Its really not THAT big of a feat anymore, nor does anything say they sailed alone. The presence of people like Dukov, Moriarty, Tenpenny, Cait, and the Bobrov brothers, suggests its a fairly common thing, that many people do.

You keep making up all these conditionals, that the games never expressed were there, to make it seem more difficult then it is. Especially when the fact the vikings were able to do it in their wooden boats centuries ago, not to mention the people who do it by themselves today, shows its not that difficult. You also fail to consider the fact that the people of the Fallout world would have had nuclear powered boats, and 2077 tech, when sailing, which puts them in a far better off position then the people today who do it.

Because that's how the four corners were for much of history IRL. Incredibly harsh, with poor soil, led to a proliferation of tribal peoples.

The overwhelming majority of the Americas were nothing but tribal peoples despite land conditions, positive or negative, for most of the time humans have inhabited it.

That doesn't change the fact that the people in part of America, that would have been far less hit by the nukes, not managing to get any sort of civilization resembling even the far worse off east coast, or even the also worse off California, even after 200 years, and when they would have been able to start off at a fairly decent technological level, due to all the things around them, is kinda ridiculous.

 

[Crni Vuk]

And what's your explenation for a ghoul-kid beeing stuck 200 years in a fridge, aparantly without food, water, a toilet and not turning insane?

 

[Someguy37]

And what's your explenation for a ghoul-kid beeing stuck 200 years in a fridge, aparantly without food, water, a toilet and not turning insane?

Ghouls are healed by radiation, as shown in all previous Fallout games. And in Fallout 3 and later games, we have seen plenty of places that have been locked since the war, and have had no food, were feral ghouls still live. So they obviously can sustain themselves, however poorly, on radiation alone.

This isn't exactly new either. The ghost people in Dead Money have been trapped in hazmat suits since before the war, fused to the suit and unable to take them off, yet they survived all this time without having to eat, or use the restroom. And the marked men of the divide, a unique type of ghoul, have had their skin torn off by the winds of the divide, yet still remain alive due to being constantly healed by the local radiation. Its even mentioned they should be dead, and only survive because the radiation heals them at the same rate the wind tears their skin off. The body of a mutant human has been shown to survive basically anything.

As for having to use the restroom, If he didn't take in any food or water, his body would have had nothing to process, thus he really wouldn't have had to use the restroom.

As for insanity, due to the constantly regenerative nature of the ghoul body and mind, its very likely he couldn't have gone insane. It was stated on Doc Barrows terminal in Fallout 3 that going feral is the result of a unique physiological change resulting from the ghoul's regenerative processes not effecting the mind anymore. He also notes that he has no idea what causes this.

 

[Monco]

The overwhelming majority of the Americas were nothing but tribal peoples despite land conditions, positive or negative, for most of the time humans have inhabited it.

That doesn't change the fact that the people in part of America, that would have been far less hit by the nukes, not managing to get any sort of civilization resembling even the far worse off east coast, or even the also worse off California, even after 200 years, and when they would have been able to start off at a fairly decent technological level, due to all the things around them, is kinda ridiculous.

A. That's an over-generalization, many parts of North America had fairly developed indigenous nations with road systems, not to mention the Aztecs, Incas, and Mayas

B. Wasn't your argument that people in the Capitol Wasteland mostly survive off of hunting, so obviously the people of the east coast aren't that much better off than tribals

The ghost people in Dead Money have been trapped in hazmat suits since before the war, fused to the suit and unable to take them off, yet they survived all this time without having to eat, or use the restroom.

The ghost people aren't ghouls...

 

[Crni Vuk]

Like I said, realism only when it suits him, I'll give up, the guy flips flops around so much, it's almost ebarassing to see someone defend Fallout 3 and 4 so heavily

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Like I said, realism only when it suits him, I'll give up, the guy flips flops around so much, it's almost ebarassing to see someone defend Fallout 3 and 4 so heavily

I wouldn't call it "defending" so much as straight-up lying.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

"Bethesda’s Pete Hines Infuriates Fallout 4 Fans; “Not Interested In Discussing How Realistic Things Are”
http://wccftech.com/bethesdas-pete-...ested-in-discussing-how-realistic-things-are/

When asked about the Kid in the fridge, this was Pete Hines' response: "not interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe post-apoc game w/ talking mutants and ghouls." So basically, "Because F*** You."

Like when Ben Affleck apparently asked Michael Bay on the set of Armageddon: "Wouldn't it be easier to train astronauts to drill rather than train drillers to be astronauts?" and Michael Bay replied "Shut up."

In other words, Bethesda is now the Michael Bay of writing and storytelling.

 

[Someguy37]

A. That's an over-generalization, many parts of North America had fairly developed indigenous nations with road systems, not to mention the Aztecs, Incas, and Mayas

B. Wasn't your argument that people in the Capitol Wasteland mostly survive off of hunting, so obviously the people of the east coast aren't that much better off than tribals

The ghost people aren't ghouls...

A. Those cultures existed for a fairly brief time compared to the total time humans lived in the Americas.

B. The people of the east coast have established fortified settlements, currency, trade routes, both internal and external, that go 1,000 miles from Boston to the Carolinas, they know how to maintain and operate technology ranging from guns(normal, laser, and plasma), to boats, they have built technology ranging from water purification machines, to hydroponic gardens, and advanced fusion cores able to power Liberty Prime, they are able to perform facial reconstructive surgery, none of which the tribals of the four corners could do before Caesar taught them, and even then, they still can't do a lot of that either.

Hell, the people of the east coast built a water purification plant so advanced that it can remove any impurities the user desires, and generates millions of gallons of fresh water daily. While the NCR is on an expansionist crusade due to neglect of all of their dams, and draining of their lake and aquifers, resulting them in running out of water, and because seemingly no one over there can figure out how to build a similar device to desalinate the hundreds of miles of coastal salt water the have. A few wasteland scientists in D.C. put to shame the entire Followers of the Apocalypse, and the NCR's OSI.


No, they aren't. They are even less explained, and more impossible, then ghouls. And somehow manage to survive solely on toxic gas that is known to corrode anything, even human tissue, that it comes into contact with. Ghost people survive by breathing in something that corrodes their body.

 

[Monco]

They know how to maintain and operate technology ranging from guns(normal, laser, and plasma)

And the White Legs apparently know how to maintain their Thompson SMGs, and the Khans use guns extensively

they have built technology ranging from water purification machines, to hydroponic gardens, and advanced fusion cores able to power Liberty Prime, they are able to perform facial reconstructive surgery

The water purifier only worked with a pre-war GECK, you specifically stated that only Li and Rivet City could have a hydroponic garden because it used pre-war tech, and it was the BoS (with pre-war military connections) not the locals that restored Liberty Prime

 

[Someguy37]

And the White Legs apparently know how to maintain their Thompson SMGs, and the Khans use guns extensively

-The water purifier only worked with a pre-war GECK,
-you specifically stated that only Li and Rivet City could have a hydroponic garden because it used pre-war tech,
-and it was the BoS (with pre-war military connections) not the locals that restored Liberty Prime

Its explicitly stated the white Legs both have guns, and know how to use them because Ulysses, you know, the Legion agent, showed them how. And the Khans are barely a tribe.

I wasn't talking about Project Purity, I was talking about the water purifiers towns like Megaton, Tenpenny Tower, and Rivet City, are known to have, as well as the smaller scale personal water purifiers that are mentioned several times. And no, if you PLAY THE GAME, and pay attention to what James says, he specifically states he is only adapting components of the GECK to make the prufier work, he doesn't use the GECK itself.

-True, but that wasn't the point. The point was that seemingly NO ONE in any of the major cities in the four corners, such as Denver, Phoenix, or Albuquerque, or even in Vegas in Nevada, managed to achieve anything close to the same in 200 years, despite having tons of pre-war tech laying around in those cities. Is everyone over there just mentally incompetent?

-Actually, if you payed attention to what Rothchild says in Fallout 3, the BoS had made basically zero progress on Prime, due to their inability to power it, and its difficult AI undoing any attempts to change its programming. Its specifically stated it was Madison Li, a local, who solved these problems by using the fusion core she had been developing for some time to solve the power issues. It's also why the BoS try to get her back in Fallout 4, because they literally can't fix Prime themselves, and they never could, ever.

 

[LiveOnTheEdge]

Because we are talking about the shitty use of nukes in Fallout 3 and 4. That's why. Because they don't look like they could even do any damage at all.

We are talking about THIS here, again a part that is what? 30 sec. long and also showing a pre-war TV with pre-war footage without any visible power source which is obviously NOT really part of the gameplay and just there to set the mood, while the ruins of DC and Boston are pretty much a part of the gameplay and visible at almost all times.

We can not assume that the intro is there to give us an accurate describtion of the gameworld. Besides, really, it is just a 10-15 sec. slide showing 3 buildings in the distance. And from that alone we want to guess what nuclear destruction in the Fallout world really is like, while we have the whole game to judge?

If you're getting further in to the intro, you also see real war footage and images of ruins that show almost no buildings at all. So what it is now? The narrative also tells us that the world was reduced to cinders. That's really not how the world in F3 and 4 looks like either - At least NV was going so far to at least TRY to explain it to the player with House protecting the town of Vegas! So apparantly Obsidian was at least aware about the issue!

I say it again, the intro is NOT the best reference material, it's there to set the mood. Not to give us an 100% accurate describtion of how the nuclear weapons in Fallout work. We have other sources for that.

No matter how you spin it though, it is painfully obvious that Bethesda decided their nuclear wareheads are not worse than a normal explosion. Most probably because they feel that a player needs skyscrapers full of Super Mutants to crawl around this time or what ever.

But can you really assume that the intro is 100% not indicative? And actually that place in the intro is the Necropolis apparently

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Necropolis

Which is also shown in the ending slides.

So I would still like to put forth the reason why it's not really shown otherwise in the playable portions of the game, is probably because of the isometric viewpoint and gameplay reasons.

 

[SaucyLad]

But can you really assume that the intro is 100% not indicative? And actually that place in the intro is the Necropolis apparently

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Necropolis

Which is also shown in the ending slides.

So I would still like to put forth the reason why it's not really shown otherwise in the playable portions of the game, is probably because of the isometric viewpoint and gameplay reasons.

The whole world being mostly rubble, sand, and ALL buildings having ONLY one story surviving is just silly. The concept art and ending slides of Fallout 1 indicate otherwise, and honestly paint a much more appealing wasteland.

I'd have to agree with LiveOnTheEdge. The only reason most buildings in game in Fallout 1 are uniform burnt match sticks are because of the isometric view angle. If they were actual tall buildings in game they would just be constantly getting in the way.

On a side note, the Cathedral in Fallout 1 is 100% intact and is multiple stories tall. I'm suspecting they added it fully in to the game because of its importance and you didn't really need to walk behind it anyway so it wouldn't obstruct your vision.

 

[naossano]

What about this list of retcons ?

 

[Mr Fish]

Weren't there tall buildings in the random encounters near San Fransisco? Or was that just in Fallout Online?

 

[SaucyLad]

What about this list of retcons ?

I got as many of the ones that made sense from this thread and other sites. It's likely incomplete, but if you want a better list get unlazy. :p

Retcons:

• At least 3~4 Vertibirds being used by the military pre-war in Massachusetts alone when at the time it was supposed to have been in the prototype stage.
• Pre-war Jet
• Nuka Cola Quantum being in MA, period. To quote the wiki for the reason this is a retcon:

The company found a suitable isotope in strontium-90. The product was made in small experimental groups, which were then sent out around Washington, D.C. for feedback. Unfortunately, while the product was being sent out for response, some of the packages were caught out in the Great War. Nuka Cola Quantum was released to the public the same day the bombs drop. October 23, 2077.

• Power Armor being literally everywhere. It's so common even Raiders have it.
• Power Armor's now requiring fusion cores.
• Potentially more FEV Strain(s). Pre-war criminal Edgar Swann (known in game as Swan) volunteered as a FEV test subject in exchange for a chance at probation. In game he is a Super Mutant Behemoth and does not resemble your typical yellow skinned East Coast Super Mutant. Additionally there are many green skin mutants in game too so they're not from Vault 87 either.
• T-60 Power Armor existing and even seeing extensive use pre-war. In previous games, T-51b was the pinnacle of pre-war Power Armor.

The T-60 series of Power Armor saw extensive use by the United States Army after the Battle of Anchorage. In fact, soldiers in T-60 Power Armor were among those trying to retain order on October 23, 2077 - the day America fell to atomic war...

• Various pre-war robots in the game being overly intelligent and even having their own AI. Robots like all the Mr. Handy's & Assaultron's are at a ZAX level of intelligence yet are MUCH smaller and even mobile. In previous games they had simulated personality routines, in Fallout 4 it's full AI.
• Vault-Tek literally pulling advanced Cyrogenic technology out of its ass for Vault 111's Cyrogenics when in Fallout 2/New Vegas the US Military, Robert House & Big Mt. didn't even have anywhere near good of Cyrogenics technology during pre-war.
• A Ghoul being able to survive, locked inside a Frigerator without food or water for over 200 years. This in a sense retcons Ghouls needing sustenance. A couple of references for Ghouls needing to eat/drink from New Vegas:

Courier: How have you survived?
Harland: I'm not delicate. Radroach meat for protein, condensation off the pipes for water, and I do my business over in the far corner.

.....

In order to feed themselves, marked men have resorted to cannibalism, evident in the hunks of human meat and flesh found nearby their encampments.

Not necessarily retcons but still goes against how things are traditionally in Fallout or are still unconfirmed:

• A Pre-war Ghoul named Eddie Winter. This person was "Ghoulified" as an experiment..
• Ghoulifying drugs. An irradiated drug that Hancock took in 2277 and became a Ghoul.

 

[Crni Vuk]

But can you really assume that the intro is 100% not indicative? And actually that place in the intro is the Necropolis apparently

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Necropolis

Which is also shown in the ending slides.

So I would still like to put forth the reason why it's not really shown otherwise in the playable portions of the game, is probably because of the isometric viewpoint and gameplay reasons.

The whole world being mostly rubble, sand, and ALL buildings having ONLY one story surviving is just silly. The concept art and ending slides of Fallout 1 indicate otherwise, and honestly paint a much more appealing wasteland.

I'd have to agree with LiveOnTheEdge. The only reason most buildings in game in Fallout 1 are uniform burnt match sticks are because of the isometric view angle. If they were actual tall buildings in game they would just be constantly getting in the way.

On a side note, the Cathedral in Fallout 1 is 100% intact and is multiple stories tall. I'm suspecting they added it fully in to the game because of its importance and you didn't really need to walk behind it anyway so it wouldn't obstruct your vision.

The thing is, as far as Boston and Fallout 3 goes, you have the whole town beeing largely unaffected by nuclear weapons, despite of relative close impacts, even if we assume that the biggest nuke was just 200kt, it's still enough to mess up your town. And the way how they trivialized everything nuclear in the game of beeing nothing more but "grenades" and just another gimick for the player in the fun house.

I said this countless times by now. And not just me. No one. NO ONE(!). Expects 100% realism. We are playing a game after all. Not a Hiroshima simulator.

But seriously, go to F3 and the crater of the white house, and tell me it is not worthy of a face palm.

The reason why those screenshots and the intro don't really mean much in my eyes, is because they don't give you enough information! You have absolutely no clue how far away those buildings are from downtown. Hell you can't even really say if that's the part that was directly hit by any nuclear bomb and just buildings that colapsed over time - to my knowledge at least.

In Fallout 3 you can go directly to the center of the detonation. And I think in F4 as well. And it looks more like someone used a crate of TNT instead of a nuclear warhead.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that the mayor of Goodneighbor, Hancock, is a ghoul because of a recreational drug and not because of radiation from the nuclear bombs?

 

[Hassknecht]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that the mayor of Goodneighbor, Hancock, is a ghoul because of a recreational drug and not because of radiation from the nuclear bombs?

The drug was supposed to be radioactive, though, so I think he still counts as a normal ghoul.

 

[Someguy37]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that the mayor of Goodneighbor, Hancock, is a ghoul because of a recreational drug and not because of radiation from the nuclear bombs?

He is a ghoul because he took in a large amount of radiation via an experimental drug.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that the mayor of Goodneighbor, Hancock, is a ghoul because of a recreational drug and not because of radiation from the nuclear bombs?

He is a ghoul because he took in a large amount of radiation via an experimental drug.

I'm aware, and no thanks I don't want to take science lessons from someone who argues you can die of dehydration but not require water to live. I don't even know why you try anymore, no one is going to take you seriously after that showing. Why are we talking? I doubt even the FEV could help you.

No one else finds it ridiculous that a recreational drug would be giving off ionizing radiation?