Black Lives Matter

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Mr Fish, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yes. A movement that attracts shit and doesn't distance itself from it is shit.
    It's not like you wouldn't blame all of the AfD or Pegida or Trump followers for shit some of them pull off.
    BLM could have sorted themselves out. Instead they're protesting in english airports that global warming is racist.
    Fuck this.

    /edit:
    This is why I said it's incapable of internal or external criticism. You always get people going no-true-scotsmen in there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
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  2. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014

    Listen you fucking bigots just because BLM chants for more dead cops and multiple cops have been murdered by people affiliated with them doesn't mean BLM isn't peaceful. Also ignore all the looting and riots you fucking racists.

    I see @Crni Vuk is here advocating his "do absolutely nothing about your problems, just call them complicated and then act morally superior" philosophy.
     
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  3. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Very few people would be 'representatives of a movement as a whole', what matters is what the movement attract and what its reaction is to those it attracts. Considering the amount of riots, looting and general chaos that ensues after nearly every 'big' BLM protest I find it strange that the whole thing hasn't been put on hold so that they can damage control the bad eggs out of the basket. Instead they just keep on going, riot after riot.

    And it has gotten to the point that when I personally think of BLM I do not think of the ones who are trying to have a discussion, instead I think of the bad elements that have drowned out the good. Again, kinda like feminism. I see an awful lot more bad shit coming out of it than good stuff.

    So BLM was created for X, but X doesn't matter if Y and Z has far more of a (negative) impact and drowns out X and almost makes it seem like X is merely a tool used for Y and Z to be exploited. Cause at this point, BLM isn't just X, it is X, Y and Z.

    The movement for X can continue under a different label, a label that explicitly stands against Y and Z, instead it just keeps chugging along with Y and Z right at its heels.

    So it doesn't matter what "Black Lives Matter" says that they stand for; what matters is what the fallout of that movement is. And if that fallout is negative (such as halting a pride parade and forcing them to cave in to their 'list of demands' (entitled shitheads...) or a black guy in a debate at school saying that a fellow white student should commit suicide) then what point is there to keeping "BLM" alive? It's tainted (again, just like feminism) and cannot be saved. Even if they moved on to a new movement that actively spoke out against what BLM produced as well as BLM's original message of X they would still have to deal with the baggage of BLM.

    But at least with a new label they could go "no, what BLM became was a mistake but the original message was good".

    But what can they do when they time after time fail to keep their protesters (or just opportunist scumbags that just abuse and exploit the moment of protest to stir shit up) in line? What can they possibly do to save their label when it has gotten to this point?

    [edit]

    Though quite frankly I disagree with their original message anyway. What they should do is start a movement that scrutinizes questionable police actions or outright corruption and exploit of their authority as well as demand that cops use body-cams that cannot be turned off by the officers as well as civilian oversight over whenever cops do something shitty or people claim that they have done something shitty.

    Instead they just had to focus on BLACK Lives Matter, let's just focus on what the police does to BLACK people. They [BLM] made it a racially motivated movement in the first place. So the original message? Fuck that noise. What I just wrote is a far better message than their garbage because it is completely neutral and has a chance of weeding out the bad eggs out of the police force and even helping cops out as body cams can prove that they did not do anything wrong and acted in the right way.

    And if the message I just wrote was adopted and became a success then it would accomplish the same thing as what BLM wanted. They want to stop racism in the police force or whatever. Well, let's say an officer named Fred is accused of racist behaviour? Then the civilian oversight board can simply go over his body cam footage and go over the time he has been accused of being racist and see whether they were right or not and punish him accordingly if he has used his authority to target [insert ethnicity here] because of their ethnicity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
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  4. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Not to mention all these super lefties screaming 'fuck the police (as in ALL POLICE)', we shoud stop rioting in the hood and burn down the suburbs, etc. BLM is a fucking joke, PERIOD. They try to claim like they are akin to MLK except MLK didn't get into police faces, screaming profanities to clearly try to provoke cops for tv airtime, throwing shit, blocking roads, looking like fucking terrorists with t
     
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  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Then I guess, I have to respectfully disagree! I feel we are comparing apples and oranges here right now. Trump is a one man party, and the AfD is a political organisation with a hirachy. They actually have a way of discarding and expelling of members.

    But I do acknoledge the fact that the BLM seems to attrackt, at least for the moment, a rather pecuilar kind of individual that is more interested in mayhem and blaming. However, I think those are not the majority of the movement - yet. But that is just my feeling.

    /edit:
    This is why I said it's incapable of internal or external criticism. You always get people going no-true-scotsmen in there.[/QUOTE]
    Which I feel won't change even if they start a new movement right now, unless they actually create some kind of clear organisation with a hirachy and all that, where you can actually expell the unwanted groups and people. Just as how you could seperate the Black Panther movement, from Malcom X or Martin Luther King. But I think BLM already achieved more or less the maximum of what they can achieve, they raised awareness for a problem, they got a lot of coverage. The rest now depends on what kind of changes we will see in the future. So I think those that don't agree with the lunatics, should simply leave the movement allone and do their thing. It's in my opinion just a temporary thing anyway, like the Occupy Wall Street movement or Anyonmyus. It will continue to linger around, but become less meaningfull as time goes on. But that's just what I believe.

    That's an appropiate suggestion I think. I don't care one way or another about BLM in particular. :)
     
  6. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Right, so I went on their website to look at thier "What Do We Believe" tab:

    Loving Engagement
    "We are committed to embodying and practicing justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another."

    Queer Affirming
    "We are committed to fostering a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking or, rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual unless s/he or they disclose otherwise."

    Intergenerational
    "We are committed to fostering an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, shows up with capacity to lead and learn."

    Black Families
    "We are committed to making our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We are committed to dismantling the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” that require them to mother in private even as they participate in justice work."

    Empathy
    "We are committed to practicing empathy; we engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts."

    Black Villages
    "We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable."

    Black Women
    "We are committed to building a Black women affirming space free from sexism, misogyny, and male‐centeredness."

    Collective Value
    "We are guided by the fact all Black lives, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status or location"

    Transgender Affirming
    "We are committed to embracing and making space for trans brothers and sisters to participate and lead. We are committed to being self-reflexive and doing the work required to dismantle cis-gender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence."

    Globalism
    "We see ourselves as part of the global Black family and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black folk who exist in different parts of the world."

    Unapologetically Black
    "We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a necessary prerequisite for wanting the same for others."

    Restorative Justice
    "We are committed to collectively, lovingly and courageously working vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension all people. As we forge our path, we intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting."

    Diversity
    "We are committed to acknowledging, respecting and celebrating difference(s) and commonalities."

    - http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

    Okay, so with this said; There's a lot more to BLM than I initially thought. Even so I will still hold my previous stance in the previous post when it comes to police violence and the whole "movement as a whole" crap. It also seems like it is all over the place, like they're trying to cram as many things into the movement as possible and I do not think that that will work out well. If you want to solve something then focus on 'that' and whatever it directly touches. That way your movement is direct and clear with its goals and everyone will easily be able to see what they are about. Still, it's awfully racial. Black this, black that. As far as I know there are white impoverished areas as well, it's not like the term "white trash" came out of nowhere.

    [edit]

    - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-demonstrations-against-police-shootings.html

    So... Wait... Let me get this straight... Someone gets assaulted cause they said a mean word aaaaand:

    "No arrests were made in connection to the matter, police have said."

    ... Wut?

    Anyway, so this kinda stuff pisses me off. I wonder how many of those stuck in traffic missed something important cause of these shitheads blocking traffic because of something that didn't even happen in their fucking country.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I wouldn't be so sure about that.

    Remember, we see MLK trough the glasses of History today, not trough the eyes of the average american of the 1950s, of which some have been sure racists and saw Martin and the movement around him well, clearly as agitators and problem that should be dealt with accordilingy - in other words, with clubs. Many did not recognized as the brave citizens fighting for their rights, like we do today. Most of the honoring, particularly by the political elite, came later, much later ...
    Also Martin and others, definetly took into account the fact that the cops (in some areas) could be easily provoked, that riots gave them air time and news coverage, which they needed to mobilize the nation, this even got him and his group in conflict with several local rights movements, like in Selma who at first didn't want to support him. Martin didn't show up just like that one day in Washington with a million people, shouting, Yo, I have a dream! It took them decades of work.
    What they did back then, was seen as highly controversial and by some even as danger to America. What Martin Luther King and other people achieved was nothing short but amazing and a bold move. Obviously I would not compare them directly to BLM though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  8. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
  9. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    WTFITFAS?
     
  10. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010


    So... We should dissect black people's brains?

    Cringey.
     
  11. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
    What brains?
    :smug:
     
  12. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
     
  13. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
    That's not racist, this is racist.
     
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  14. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Nuff said. With a side by side comparison, BLM is light years away from achieving what MLK had by their retarded antics.

    Second, these guys were not talking shit to the cops. They just shut up and got their asses kicked in silence, which is why they won the moral high ground. They didn't get into a cops face and talk shit and call him a pig, as this would mostly likely get them killed instead of just getting an ass beating.

    Love how these super lefties claim we live in a 'police state', that allows them to talk so much shit. I doubt China or Russia, you know, actual police states, would let them get away with that shit for long. Especially the rioting.[/quote]
     
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  15. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    This is the most important thing BLM should have realized before starting their movement, worked wonders in Czechoslovakia too. When a small bunch of students went on peaceful meeting in Prague, Narodni Trida, they were attacked and beaten up by police units send by Communist government:



    Instead of going full neanderthal, jumping at cars and setting public property to fire, they just started chanting „Mame hole ruce!”/„Our hands are empty!” without fighting back. This worked as a catalyzer, older folks started pouring to the streets all across the country, joining the initial student movement, until every city in whole country was on their foots. Interestingly enough, many police units dropped their weapons at this point and joined the people instead. This is how Communist government in Czechoslovakia was overthrown, so called Velvet Revolution.
     
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  16. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Again, go and watch the preperation before Selma. Some around Martin actually wanted the confrontation, for obvious reasons.
     
  17. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    The que
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Seriously, could you stop that? It's annoying.
     
  19. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    At least it isn't The Order memes.

    Anyway.

    copfree.jpg
    copfree2.jpg
    copfree3.jpg

    - http://www.complex.com/life/2016/09/black-lives-matter-alicia-garza-charlotte

    So basically, BLM's founder doesn't want to properly address the riots and shit that BLM sparks and instead think that the media shouldn't focus on it and spin it into a narrative she disapproves of. Instead she's going like "well, considering what happened prior to the riots is it any wonder that they happened?" To me it sounds like she's trying to justify it. Like it was bound to happen and that it is the fault of others and that BLM should not be criticized for practically being the instigator.

    Oh and "police free" zones? >_>
    Where they police themselves? <_<

    So... Like Sharia Law 'no go'-zones?
     
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  20. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Black Families
    "We are committed to making our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We are committed to dismantling the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” that require them to mother in private even as they participate in justice work."