Brian Fargo comments on DLC

Brother None said:
DLC has now become a 4 letter word with one less letter.
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:eyebrow: I'm dense, could someone explain it to me?

Tagaziel said:
There wasn't really a "golden age" of gaming. This medium is still relatively young and worthwhile games are still being made. The only problem is that it's a bigger, more mainstream market, so the volume has increased tremendously, but the proportions are more or less the same.
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Probably it's just me not keeping up with the PC market anymore, but I have the feeling that certain genres that once thrived/were healthy have disapperead or have become extremely niche. Are they still making top notch space/fly simulators like Wing Commander, Tie Fighter, Falcon 4.0 and EF2000, for example? :?
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
:eyebrow: I'm dense, could someone explain it to me?
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Fargo is saying that "DLC" is treated like a four letter word. A "four letter word" usually describes profane or vulgar words that consist of four letters. e.g. fuck or shit or cunt or Todd.

Are they still making top notch space/fly simulators like Wing Commander, Tie Fighter, Falcon 4.0 and EF2000, for example?
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Eve, Evochron Mercenary, X. Although, It's kinda unfair to group Eve in there. That's less of a space simulator and more of a unpaid job.
 
I can agree with that, it seems that some games have been somewhat lost over the time. Like simulations and many good strategy games.

There has been a bit more diversity here in the past and a bit more quality with those niche titles. I am sure there are still good strategy games out there. But they kinda don't really attract me anymore like Age of Empires or Jagged Alliance did.

In particular I will never understand what people liked on Generals so much. For me it was always a steaming pile of turd. *shrugs* different tastes I guess.
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Probably it's just me not keeping up with the PC market anymore, but I have the feeling that certain genres that once thrived/were healthy have disapperead or have become extremely niche. Are they still making top notch space/fly simulators like Wing Commander, Tie Fighter, Falcon 4.0 and EF2000, for example? :?
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There's the open source, free FlightGear (which I'm told is pretty awesome), Bohemia Interactive's Take On Helicopters, IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover, X-Plane (Mac), Rise of Flight etc. This genre did lose it's size (was it ever big, though?), but isn't dead yet.
 
Makagulfazel said:
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
:eyebrow: I'm dense, could someone explain it to me?
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Fargo is saying that "DLC" is treated like a four letter word. A "four letter word" usually describes profane or vulgar words that consist of four letters. e.g. fuck or shit or cunt or Todd.
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:lol:
 
Ah, now there's a kickstarter for the spiritual successor to Titan Quest, Grim Dawn. Titan Quest, and it's expansion Immortal Throne, are good additions to classic modern games. On a personal note, it's my favorite Diablo clone by far.
Somewhat relevant, granted the discussion. Also, it's a Kick it Forward project Fargo mentioned in his twitter feed.
 
Tagaziel said:
There's the open source, free FlightGear (which I'm told is pretty awesome), Bohemia Interactive's Take On Helicopters, IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover, X-Plane (Mac), Rise of Flight etc. This genre did lose it's size (was it ever big, though?), but isn't dead yet.
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I remember it being a high profile genre in the nineties. Electronic Arts had its own brand of simulators and if wikipedia is to be trusted one of its earliest titles (Jane's AH-64D Longbow) sold more than 1 million copies, for example.
 
Makagulfazel said:
Ah, now there's a kickstarter for the spiritual successor to Titan Quest, Grim Dawn. Titan Quest, and it's expansion Immortal Throne, are good additions to classic modern games. On a personal note, it's my favorite Diablo clone by far.
Somewhat relevant, granted the discussion. Also, it's a Kick it Forward project Fargo mentioned in his twitter feed.
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Speaking of Diablo clones, have you checked out Path of Exile? They did a mini 'kickstarter', think it earnt them 200k in a week and still ongoing.

http://www.pathofexile.com/

The passive tree is quite funny the first time you look at it, I am in the beta at the moment and quite enjoying it for the little content they've implemented so far. Most memerable moment in it was when I did a bandit quest with some pugs [random players], we had a choice, kill them all or ally with one of them and get a different reward. Turns out, we all chose different rewards and ended up killing each other, along withe bandit! I was so busy killing, I didnt realise honest.

Also, it has dead babies. :o

2ihl43n.jpg
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
I remember it being a high profile genre in the nineties. Electronic Arts had its own brand of simulators and if wikipedia is to be trusted one of its earliest titles (Jane's AH-64D Longbow) sold more than 1 million copies, for example.
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Which doesn't mean much without context. Red Alert 1 (also released in 1996) sold three milion copies and strategy games are also a niche market.
 
strategy games made the PC quite big though. It definitely was not a niche market when I grow up with PC gaming. And the diversity here was much bigger compared to do today where you if you get some "strategy" game it usually consist of mindless action. Sure. Yes. Thats one way how to make it "niche" by simply not offering what people would like. Does not mean there are not a few good games released here and there like Warhammer and the like or Disciples.

But the one or other might remember total annihilation, dune, C&C1 and many more. I am somewhat missing strategy games with such quality today. Particularly games with the gameplay similar to annihilation got killed by the industry. Supreme Commander 1 was good. SC2 was shit.
 
Sam Ecorners said:
Chronicles of Riddick - Really... A modern Classic?
COD 4 - No comment
Batman AA/AC - Fairly good game, tecnically well made but again quite linear and nothing really special.
Red Dead Redemption - Agreed but thats Rockstar for you
GTA series - Again, thats Rockstar for you.
The Witcher series - Independent Game
Braid - Independent Game
F:NV - Made by people who made the originals, out did F3 in many ways but still had to 'appeal' to the 'mainstream' audiences
NWN2:MOTB - Aint played it.
KOTOR2 - Agreed but this is an obsidian game afterall.
EVE online - Independent Game
AC series
Mirror's Edge - REALLY this is on your list, a stylised game sure, but a modern great? Nah it was a linear experience.
And the list goes on. - Does it?

These are all fantastic games. And frankly, if you're gonna spend all this time trying to prove that games today are shitty, then you're hardly better than gaming press, who condition people to believe modern turds are golden.
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You're not reading what im writing here, independent studios and indie devs are STILL making decent games, however dedicated developers and publishers ARENT WILLING to push the boat out - meaning that MAINSTREAM games generally are the same.

Rockstar games along with Valve are in my opinion different, valve may well specialise entirley in shooters but its shooters are good and of a high technical standard with decent stories/setting (generally.)

Rockstars is very competent but has almost entirely abandoned the PC market (you know, the market the company set itself up in with GTA...)

People quoting titles such as STALKER, WITCHER, EVE ect are playing into my hands, the point im trying to get across is that the mainstream game industry is not committed to trying new things or breaking boundaries - indie devs still do and still come up with decent titles.

STALKER however is a prime example of publisher meddling and the pitfalls of such meddling - a great concept was cut back and back until it was nothing more then a fairly limited 'sandbox' shooters - dont believe me? Research it.

If you believe Mainstream gaming hasnt declined in quality, imagination and innovation then you are kidding yourselves. :x
 
Radman said:
If you believe Mainstream gaming hasnt declined in quality, imagination and innovation then you are kidding yourselves. :x
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This really shouldn't be a hard argument to make on no mutants allowed. :wink:
 
Tagaziel said:
Which doesn't mean much without context. Red Alert 1 (also released in 1996) sold three milion copies and strategy games are also a niche market.
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I'm going by memory, I can't give you a proper context backed by articles and stuff. But if the fact that Electronic Arts bothered to start a franchise of hardcore simulators isn't proof enough that the genre was seen as profitable I don't know what else is. :P
 
Crni Vuk said:
to be fair though the Electronic Arts back then was not the EA we know today.
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Agreed...

Wasnt EA just voted one of the worst employers in the games development market recently too?
 
Crni Vuk said:
to be fair though the Electronic Arts back then was not the EA we know today.
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For sure, but I don't think that even the EA of that time would have made those kind of games if they weren't seen as profitable.

But maybe the real difference was that at the time the difference between a blockbuster and an average title wasn't so huge like today? Does anybody know what kind of numbers the games sold back then?
 
A game with a linear experience isn't always bad. Often times it can be good to keep a tight grip on the story or world you've designed.

Mario was a linear experience and is a fantastic game. Half Life 2 is very linear and actually helps keep the game focused. Super Meat Boy is one of the most linear and simple games from a design perspective in years, however it is also one of the best platformer games of all time.

The trick is to know what the game needs and try not to over do it. Too much freedom leads to things like Oblivion where you can do anything, but nothing matters. Too much linearity leads to things like Modern Warfare where you are basically on a roller-coaster moving from set piece to set piece.

I personally really enjoyed Mirror's Edge. Mostly for the game play (some of the best feeling platforming in a first person perspective, something that FPS games often do very poorly.) but the world was also somewhat interesting, if slightly contrived.
 
While most of my great memories from gaming do come from the nineties and the games released back then, we also have to remember that there were a lot of crappy games coming out as well.

Before the internet became what it is today, you mostly ever heard of good games because people like to spread the word when they find something worthwile. Fallout? Heard it from a friend. Jagged alliance 2? same deal. What was my other sources of information? Gaming magazines? Effort.

In todays world you can bring publicity to anything when everyones connected via the interwebs. You can sell anything on steam. By that i don't mean everyone can slap their games on there, but that you can rush a product through, slap a pricetag on it and publish it on steam and it automaticly gets a spotlight on millions of steam users front page.


There are good games coming out still, you just have to filter the offerings a bit. I was surprised with Bad company 2 for example, i thought i'd never get excited for a fps game again. That game was technically good and provided a solid gameplay experience, to put it purely objectively. Meanwhile the mw series had me completely dumbfounded as to why it was so popular.

The rpg front has been very lacking recently, that i have to admit. Im really aching for a good turn based isometric game.

Just installed JA2 again and installed the 1.13 fan made patch for it. Working ok:ish but does anyone know how to fix the missing npc portraits and voices?
 
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