Brotherhood of Steel Speculation (Minor Spoilers)

[Korin]

The Mid Western BOS (Tactics are somewhat a mix of both the East and West coast Brotherhood. They actively take recruits (Super Mutants and Ghouls even), trade with villages in exchange for protection and recruits, and what not. While they are elitists, they are willing to do outside business and without the lameness of the ye old generic Knight business of the East Coast.

My experience with Tactics only goes as far as the start of the game where that was covered in the intro... I was to understand most of that wasn't canon unless referenced in the main Fallouts? It seemed they were in a similar scenario of being disconnected from the main brotherhood group though.

 

[Gaddes]

The Mid Western BOS (Tactics are somewhat a mix of both the East and West coast Brotherhood. They actively take recruits (Super Mutants and Ghouls even), trade with villages in exchange for protection and recruits, and what not. While they are elitists, they are willing to do outside business and without the lameness of the ye old generic Knight business of the East Coast.

My experience with Tactics only goes as far as the start of the game where that was covered in the intro... I was to understand most of that wasn't canon unless referenced in the main Fallouts? It seemed they were in a similar scenario of being disconnected from the main brotherhood group though.

It's considered semi-canon, not sure about certain factions such as the Reavers (similar to the Brotherhood but they worship Technology), or the Beastlords (Tribals able to control animal with PSI).

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Honestly, you can justify the East Coast BOS all you want but they are just 'BOS in name only' to me.

Emil wanted them to be the shiny heroes in army, protecting the wasteland downtrodden from the evil Super Mutants and Enclave, bringing water to the thirsty, and that is what Bethesda did.

The East Coast BOS could have been more 'open minded' by allowing outside recruitment and still stick to Brotherhood ideals and policy.
Their actions to defeat the Enclave could have been based on some deal with the player and Rivet City, getting advanced technology in return for their services (the knowledge of the Rivet City scientists? Raven Rock?).
I didn't want them to become humanitarians, giving their lives for others.

Those who do not agree with the BOS' ideology leave remember?

If anything it should be some army working for Rivet City or Reilly's Rangers (perhaps the Talon Mercenaries as an alternative if the player is to evil to ask Reilly) that fight the Super Mutants (blegh) and the Enclave (double blegh), complaining that the BOS with all their technology and weaponry do nothing.

 

[Forbidden]

Emil wanted them to be the shiny heroes in army, protecting the wasteland downtrodden from the evil Super Mutants and Enclave, bringing water to the thirsty, and that is what Bethesda did.

I had a bit of a different take. The whole thing about protecting humanity from the super mutants was self-gratifying propaganda. They went around spitting on the 'locals' constantly. They weren't so much protecting the locals as killing super mutants because the super muties represented a threat. The capitol brotherhood didn't have the bunkers they could hole up in. They had a fortress at the pentagon, but it was a very visible and very large, and ultimately vulnerable structure. Lyons was smart enough to know that a static defense never works in the long run. (something the west coast bos hasn't learned yet) So they had to start going out and killing the super mutants to keep the population under control.

Killing super mutants also saves the "locals" like Three Dog, so Three Dog plays them up as heroes, but nothing they did in F3 was really heroic or selfless. Before the enclave showed up, all they did was go around keeping the super mutant population low enough that it wouldn't overwhelm them. But even this slight lifting of the siege mentality caused a bunch of brothers to go awol.

Once the enclave showed up, they still didn't much care until they got their hands on massive water purification technology. Now thats something that the Brotherhood just can't abide. However, once they have it, what do they do with it? It's pumping clean water into the potomac, they can't keep it a secret. They can't move it. So what does Lyons do? He uses the propaganda three dog had laid out and gets the rest of the wasteland essentially working for him, distributing the water. (If he hadn't he'd be overwhelmed with refugees) Additionally, Liberty Prime lets them easily annihilate Enclave, so he goes after the Enclave and their tech.

I'll grant you, Lyons is much more flexible and innovative than the brotherhood normally is, but if you look at what he does rather than what he says (and what's said on his behalf), what you see really isn't all that far from brotherhood thinking, given how much more difficult his circumstances are.

 

[BarackSays]

Honestly, you can justify the East Coast BOS all you want but they are just 'BOS in name only' to me.

Emil wanted them to be the shiny heroes in army, protecting the wasteland downtrodden from the evil Super Mutants and Enclave, bringing water to the thirsty, and that is what Bethesda did.

The East Coast BOS could have been more 'open minded' by allowing outside recruitment and still stick to Brotherhood ideals and policy.
Their actions to defeat the Enclave could have been based on some deal with the player and Rivet City, getting advanced technology in return for their services (the knowledge of the Rivet City scientists? Raven Rock?).
I didn't want them to become humanitarians, giving their lives for others.

Those who do not agree with the BOS' ideology leave remember?

If anything it should be some army working for Rivet City or Reilly's Rangers (perhaps the Talon Mercenaries as an alternative if the player is to evil to ask Reilly) that fight the Super Mutants (blegh) and the Enclave (double blegh), complaining that the BOS with all their technology and weaponry do nothing.

To be fair, Bethesda did take note of this. Hence, the Outcasts and the fact that the real BOS disowned the East Coast organization.

Really, they are only BOS in name only, both in our minds and in the game.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Once the enclave showed up, they still didn't much care until they got their hands on massive water purification technology. Now thats something that the Brotherhood just can't abide. However, once they have it, what do they do with it? It's pumping clean water into the potomac, they can't keep it a secret. They can't move it. So what does Lyons do? He uses the propaganda three dog had laid out and gets the rest of the wasteland essentially working for him, distributing the water. (If he hadn't he'd be overwhelmed with refugees) Additionally, Liberty Prime lets them easily annihilate Enclave, so he goes after the Enclave and their tech.

Thats all not really cause of the organisation but because Bethesda doesnt spend enough time thinking about their gameplay and how comunities interact with each other realisticaly. Did you played Oblivion ? If not then its hard to understand why Fallout 3 is how it is and why it feels so lifeless (dull one might want to say).

For example in Oblivion you have this "huge daemonic invasion" in the background and hell gates opening everywhere in the land though just that no one ever cares, doesnt even mention anything and just continue their boring usual life. So much to building up tension. Strange enough if you work for the fighters guild people complain to you at some point that they dont have any "jobs" and you have to help them find some but you can give them the order to help in fighting of the daemons.

Fallout 3 is very similar in that way, while somewhat better still with comunities that have NO conection with each other. Thats why the BoS doesnt care either about Super Mutants or the Enclave in the end because YOU the player have not trigered the correct event (using Super Optmimus Prime) to fight them. So even after you blown up Raven Rock and the wasteland is literaly crowded with Enclave troops the BoS doesnt care nor mentions it really.

Its more bad design then the fault of the Capital Wasteland BoS.

 

[DForge]

I have mixed feelings about BoS. people like old elder and the guys that kill Followers of Apocalypse because they SUSPECT Veronica betrayed them are scum with hi-tech gear, not any better than Powder Gangers. But there are people who want the faction to change. If we recall one of the endings in F1, BoS was capable of plunging humanity into another dark age. They - with the rise of NCR - have no place around the earth anymore. Face it, throughout those 200 years they did nothing good anyway. What's the use of keeping hi-tech a secret deep in a bunker? So that people won't repeat the same mistakes again? Great... they will bash themselves with metal pipes instead. What's the difference?

That's why I like Mr House. Offers something different than ANOTHER government that will sooner or later go to war with someone. (NCR). The bigger NCR is, the more it resembles the Enclave. Well, it's a natural course, I guess.

 

[Forbidden]

Thats all not really cause of the organisation but because Bethesda doesnt spend enough time thinking about their gameplay and how comunities interact with each other realisticaly. Did you played Oblivion ? If not then its hard to understand why Fallout 3 is how it is and why it feels so lifeless (dull one might want to say).

For example in Oblivion you have this "huge daemonic invasion" in the background and hell gates opening everywhere in the land though just that no one ever cares, doesnt even mention anything and just continue their boring usual life. So much to building up tension. Strange enough if you work for the fighters guild people complain to you at some point that they dont have any "jobs" and you have to help them find some but you can give them the order to help in fighting of the daemons.

Fallout 3 is very similar in that way, while somewhat better still with comunities that have NO conection with each other. Thats why the BoS doesnt care either about Super Mutants or the Enclave in the end because YOU the player have not trigered the correct event (using Super Optmimus Prime) to fight them. So even after you blown up Raven Rock and the wasteland is literaly crowded with Enclave troops the BoS doesnt care nor mentions it really.

Its more bad design then the fault of the Capital Wasteland BoS.

All true. Bethesda is good at creating terrain and dungeons, not so good at the whole population thing. That reminds me of another thing that bugged the heck out of me with F3: No agriculture. No forge. Heck, not even a decent smithy. It felt like 20 years after the bombs, not 200. After 200 years, you'd think all the Fancy Lads Snack Cakes would have been eaten up if nobody grew any food of their own. Nevermind the massive population of raiders that have no one to raid. Though I think part of that may be due to a significant midway change in design. It's my understanding that initially, F3 was almost entirely in DC, with the area around it about 1/4th the size we saw it (and DC itself much larger). Under that scenario, you could have stuck in some dialogue about farming communities outside the city (which you can't go to) and how the caravans bring food in and scavenged trinkets out.

But what I was saying about the Brotherhood, I'm not saying that was Bethesda's design intent. I'm just saying it fits with the facts and with the Brotherhood's mentality, so I chose to see it that way.