Bye Bye Bioware

There's no excuse for f-ing up Bullfrog and Westwood. Dungeon Keeper, Red Alert, Command and Conquer- great series got what beth is doing to FO.
 
Note: Red Alert, Command & Conquer are the same franchise. They fucked them both up at the same time. :( And, C&C possibly got the most accurate depiction of what happened to FO3: the studio was closed when their version of C&C3 was 70% done.
 
If I was the owner of Bioware, 860 million would be able to very well fund a new gaming start.

Maybe they intend to use that money and startup a new studio?
It'd be reasonable, that's a fat chunk of change.
 
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
The gaming industry has gone mad.
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The business consensus is that that's too much, yeah

Even better, the business model EA envisions to make it back is that the two studios have to produce 3 games that sell 2 million copies, each and every year. Oh yeah, that sounds like a great creative atmosphere.

If this over-paying becomes a trend, we're looking down the barrel of a bubble, too.
 
Fuck, gaming is about to be churned into overtime and then exploded.

I get it now.

Good thing I'm growing out of most games anyways.
 
Brother None said:
Even better, the business model EA envisions to make it back is that the two studios have to produce 3 games that sell 2 million copies, each and every year. Oh yeah, that sounds like a great creative atmosphere.
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EA's reputation didn't just drop out of the sky. it's wellearned. slavedrivers. poor devs.

as for the price? i'm not terribly surprised. after all, games (in all shapes and sizes) are the future of entertainment, i think. this is well reflected when you compare the revenue of lets say the movie industry and the game industry.
 
During my travels around the net I found this:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=29522

This really shows how stupid :shock: :roll: EA's beancounters are. They have added all of Bioware's past games up in the past 10 years or so, and came out with a total number of say 20-22 million units sold. Now 20:10 = 2 million games on average a year each year, right? No, it doesn't. At least not when it comes to Bioware.

Bioware's games are slow & steady sellers. Baldur's Gate 1 has sold 5-6 millions, but that's over 10 years or so. KOTOR1 sold 3 millions or so, but that's over 3 years or so, averaging 1 million a year. Bioware has a great back catalogue that has helped them stay afloat, I think. BG2 sold what 2½-3 million units in what 2-3 years time or so?

I've done a little math myself. If Pandemic & Bioware each are expected to bring in revenue for about 150 million US dollars, then both companies will have to sell about 2½ million games each year - every year. Pandemic might be able to pull this one off, based on the records of previous sales that were i the 4½-5½ million units range. But Bioware, not a chance. As we have seen their yearly average sale for any game has been about 1-1½ million units pr. game pr. year. Hopefully, Pandemic will sell the other 1½-2 million units (or more) pr. game pr. year. But if the beancounters at EA expects both Bioware and Pandemic to sell 2½ million units pr. game pr. year, then the future is looking bleak for Bioware, both as an independent and as an 'independent' game developer, even within the EA subsidiary system. And I doubt Ray&Greg's friend, a certain mr. Riccitiello, who btw, stand to gain nearly 5 million US dollars on this biz deal, can save Bioware, let alone Ray&Greg as CEOs of Bioware.

/aries369
 
you know what would be the epitome of greatness?

if all the employees and programmers were NOT on contract employment and they all left the day after the sale was final, they took all the money and started their own franchise.

that to me would be perfect justice for EA for what they did to OSI.
 
Brother None said:
Even better, the business model EA envisions to make it back is that the two studios have to produce 3 games that sell 2 million copies, each and every year. Oh yeah, that sounds like a great creative atmosphere.
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Wow, talk about streamlining processes. Or is it content? Remains to be seen.

Brother None said:
If this over-paying becomes a trend, we're looking down the barrel of a bubble, too.
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Let's all buy the same stock and get rich!
 
It is a lot of money but Bioware is about to release Mass Effect which is expected to sell a lot of copies, have lots of DC, and be a trilogy. I had a feeling they were going to milk it forever by adding planets on XBL for years and years but now I'm positive that it will be ridiculous.
 
You have to remember, though, that Bioware and Pandemic are both in this together. They both need to sell for about 300 million US dollars worth of games, combined, in 2009 and 2010. And they need to have a combined 3-4 games out pr. year. Bioware released Jade EMPIRE SE for PC this year, while they're releasing Mass Effect in Nov. 2007. Pandemic is releasing Mercs 2 and Saboteur in 2008, I think, while Bioware is releasing the Sonic RPG as well as Dragon in 2008. Ray or Greg said in an interview that the game was almost done as either Ray or Greg did play it all weekend long. Maybe Bioware is releasing as a special Christmas gifts for its loyal customers and fanbase ?

One can also hope&dream, can't one...

Over at the Bioware forums, the proverbial shit really has hit the fan. And the uprising of the fans won't be calmed down. Almost every fan, including me, thinks this move bioware's ray&greg are are very stupid move. If Bioware needed money, I think they should have gone public e.g. on the stock exchange. I would gladby shares for say 100 US dollars or so in Bioware...

At the Evil Avatar forums, there's a thread about how Bioware and Pandemic had other options via the Elevation Partners firm that were ready to give good money for buying Bioware&Pandemic, but apparently not nearly enough money....for the board of directors at Elevation Partners which also includes Ray&Greg and Bono etc.

I'm pretty sure now that a certian mr. John Riccitiello leaving Bioware and befriending Ray&Greg of Bioware game, getting these two people to trust him, were an elaborate plan, a scheme, fostered at EA, so that EA could get their hands on Bioware. I have no way of proving this of course, but does not it ring a little fishy in your years to learn that John R. left EA as a COO in 2004 to form Elevation Partners. Then as, chairman? or CEO of this firm he buys
Bioware & Pandemic in 2005. Then 1½ years later he leaves Elevation Partners so that he can get what EA needs or rather craves to wet its appetite for world power and global domination of every gaming genre there is on the planet: Bioware&Pandemic.

To me, this simply doesn't make sense at all, if this move weren't planned all along either someone at EA, or by the doctors as well.
It makes what happend two years ago so more understandable, I think. The big question is still: why EA? Why not Activision? or Ubisoft? Only the 'good' doctors of Bioware would know this, of course, but it could be that EA promised Bioware's management that EA won't be restricting Bioware's creative freedom, while funding and marketing their games all over the world, thus hoping to sell more gamers than ever before. I'm afraid its now also becoming 'all about the money' for the two doctors, not about the great games they want to make.

If you read some posts on Bioware&Pandemic's forums you get the impression that this move mas motivated because of FEAR, fear of not being able to get a publisher for the next title. And FEAR, as YODA tells us us leads to the dark side...

And that's exactly where I think the two doctors are headed...

/aries369
 
I'm sorry, aries, but I don't get your angle? The two doctors are fine, as is mr Riccitiello. There is no conceivable, and mark this, no conceivable way they could possible not come out of this on top, no matter what.

So I'm not getting your angle beyond that it strikes me as an incredibly naive one. Gaming has been moving towards conglomerating since day 1 at a speed higher than any industry (hell, even faster than film).

And this is just a cog in that, a link in the chain. From an economic viewpoint, there's nothing wrong with what they're doing.

Don't like it?

Then don't buy their games.

But you know you will. And you know damned well those guys on the BioWare forum will. And hence you'll all bless the further degradation of the genre. But that's just the way the cookie crumbles, innit?

EDIT: also, there's nothing particularly unusual with the way the take-over happened and Riccitiello's position in it. Switching between companies like that is regular, and at most it facilitated the take-over. That doesn't change that it was always 100% up to the docs themselves. To imply otherwise is ridiculous.
 
Kharn said:
Don't like it?

Then don't buy their games.

But you know you will. And you know damned well those guys on the BioWare forum will. And hence you'll all bless the further degradation of the genre. But that's just the way the cookie crumbles, innit?
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Oh come on Kharn if the guy is a member of their forum he obviously cares alot about the quality of their games and probably won't buy them now that they'll probably become much worse. You sound so pessimistic.

Now you can expect them to make in the next few years:

-Knights of the Old Republic 3
-Knights of the Old Republic Racer
-Knights of the Old Republic RTS
-Knights of the Old Republic 4
-Knights of the Old Republic Racer 2 (insert villain's name here)'s Revenge
-Knights of the Old Republic: The Adventures of (insert name of obscure character with no backstory here)
-Knights of the Old, but not that old Republic
-Knights of the Old Republic vs. Marvel Fighting game

-etc...

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
The Vault Dweller said:
Oh come on Kharn if the guy is a member of their forum he obviously cares alot about the quality of their games and probably won't buy them now that they'll probably become much worse. You sound so pessimistic.
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I don't know, BioWare obviously peaked with Baldur's Gate 2 and has been on a downhill ride ever since. I don't seem to notice many people caring about that, think anyone will care when the awesome Mass Effect <s>movie</s>"game"-trilogy comes around?
 
The point I was making which obviously got lost in the figures is this:

There are no ways, in hell or otherwise, that Bioware & Pandemic can sell 2½ million units pr. game each year every year. I was trying to back this up with figures from how many units pr. game Bioware has sold in the past. Pandemic's games generally seem to
sell about twice as much as Bioware's games. I don't think the beancounters, as I call the people in EA only interested in selling games for profit and nothing else, would hesitate one minute closing down Bioware Gaming Studios if Bioware doesn't sell at least 2-2½ million units pr. game - or more. The only thing that today would be able to prevent this from happening would be a person, EA's CEO, John Riccitiello who has vouched for Bioware.

I think that both the doctors and John Riccitiello are probably fine :) and very well off economically, too :) I don't know much about the inner workings of the gaming industry, but it does indeed look fishy to me that the CEO of EA can get a personal gain of more than 4,5 million US dollars - just by buying a company.

When I first two years ago learned about the Bioware/Pandemic merger, I thought to myself, 'hey, this is great news, since this means that Bioware etc. will now be safe for many years as independent developer of great quality games'. I had never in my wildest dreams expected that the two doctors would sell to the steamrolling global money making seeking world domination in games that is EA. Many on the Bioware forums, including myself feel deeply betrayed by the two doctors. I don't blame the workers and developers etc. at Bioware, since they probably didn't have a say in the merger, or rather, this sell-out, to EA.

I know, of course, that small companies are eaten by big companies. I also think that EA wants to be the worlds largest & biggest game developer and publisher and couldn't stand that Activision were getting bigger&larger than EA is (or was). And so EA swallowed Bioware - to get bigger, but not necessarily better.

I call EA buying BIoware for a sell-out, mostly from Bioware's side, I think, since the good doctors apparently now more value money than making great games. I also call it a sell-out, since I know that EA hasn't changed its stribes, they will still look at how many games, Bioware sell. And if and when Bioware doesn't sell enough games, EA will be shutting Bioware down - faster that you can say - - Bioware...

The only strategic reason for this sell-out which would benefit Bioware would be that Bioware get access to a publisher which basically is a steamrolling dragon e.g. a marketing machine that spews fire. But still, Bioware will need to sel many more games than it ever has done before pr. year - and I don't think that Bioware will be able to do so...

/aries369
 
aries369 said:
There are no ways, in hell or otherwise, that Bioware & Pandemic can sell 2½ million units pr. game each year every year. I was trying to back this up with figures from how many units pr. game Bioware has sold in the past. Pandemic's games generally seem to sell about twice as much as Bioware's games. I don't think the beancounters, as I call the people in EA only interested in selling games for profit and nothing else, would hesitate one minute closing down Bioware Gaming Studios if Bioware doesn't sell at least 2-2½ million units pr. game - or more. The only thing that today would be able to prevent this from happening would be a person, EA's CEO, John Riccitiello who has vouched for Bioware.
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There isn't? Hell yes there is, it's not nearly as difficult as you imagine. If Mass Effect is a hit, as it well might be, they'll float along for years now. Simply twitch their market targets further away from the RPG niche and closer to the Action game niche and they're more than fine.

aries369 said:
but it does indeed look fishy to me that the CEO of EA can get a personal gain of more than 4,5 million US dollars - just by buying a company.
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Nothing fishy there. Pretty standard.

aries369 said:
I had never in my wildest dreams expected that the two doctors would sell to the steamrolling global money making seeking world domination in games that is EA. Many on the Bioware forums, including myself feel deeply betrayed by the two doctors.
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Then don't buy their games.

You can complain. Complaining is good, it's a part of the modern consumer feedback loop. But it won't mean shit if you continue to buy their games.

aries369 said:
I know, of course, that small companies are eaten by big companies. I also think that EA wants to be the worlds largest & biggest game developer and publisher and couldn't stand that Activision were getting bigger&larger than EA is (or was). And so EA swallowed Bioware - to get bigger, but not necessarily better.
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Wrong. That's not what's going on here. When someone says "the big fish is eating the smaller fish" they're talking about stock market buy-outs or market pressure (killing the company off by competing in their niche). EA has done no such thing. They made an honest buy from a pair of owners that was happy to sell their company.

From a business viewpoint, this is a logical move both for BioWare and EA. It's about something BioWare was very willing to do, not something EA forced out of the market.

aries369 said:
I think, since the good doctors apparently now more value money than making great games.
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Seriously, what world do you live in? BioWare has been about making money over game quality for years, some would say since its inception.

aries369 said:
I also call it a sell-out, since I know that EA hasn't changed its stribes, they will still look at how many games, Bioware sell. And if and when Bioware doesn't sell enough games, EA will be shutting Bioware down - faster that you can say - - Bioware...
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No they won't. Where the hell are you getting this? No one with any sense of business acumen would *shut down* a multi-million purchase just because the return is disappointing. If it is, EA will just hollow out the company, lower costs and infringe on their creative freedom further. They won't shut it down for years.

For Frith's sake, they're a public company. They're a public company who just paid hundreds of millions for a purchase and you're here speculating about them shutting it down?

Seriously, aries, I know you're trying, but right off the bat from posting everywhere that you thought this was a scam to the posts you're making above, it's pretty obvious you simply don't know anything about either standard economics or the gaming industry. Why are you trying to draw conclusions about something you don't understand?
 
It might just be me but I always tend to get suspicius when people in CEO functions get a personal gain just by buying a company or something similar. Must be a Danish thing, I think ? I don't mind CEOs getting paid their fair share if they have done something over the past 3-6 years to raise the value of the company's stocks or shares.

I don't think I have posted everywhere that this was a scam?
I have posted it here and on the evil avatar forums. On other forums I have expressed my concerns about this deal, and about the oddity that a CEO of Elevation Partners now is the CEO of EA. And as such has bought Bioware. The same concerns have other people voiced at the Bioware forums.

I agree that Mass Effect probably will be a hit. However, I doubt that Bioware will be able to sell the requied 2½ million units for Mass Effect. I hope so, but I doubt it.

I agree with you that this is, of course, a great business opportunity for Bioware & Pandemic. Whether or not it is a great deal for the consumers remains to be seen, I think. It is, of course, a great deal for Bioware. They now have access to a marketing machine called EA that will market their games vehemently and agressively all over the world.

I don''t know why you call me 'naive', though. At the Bioware forums, I have been saying that the two doctors had a seat on the board Elevation Partners. And that they probably voted for the merger - or more precisely - voted to sell their company - to EA.

I have also said, as I think? I have done as well? that the only logical reason this would be two things 1) Bioware wants to go multi-platform, but Microsoft wouldn't let them or 2) Bioware got word from Microsoft that they didn't want to fund their games no more. Of course, these are only guesses at my part. It could well be that there could be a third, fourth or fifth reason for this.

The point about the big fish eating the little fish was just my way of saying that I'm agreeing with you, brother none, that all things seem to turn into big conglemerate corporations that look for ways of how to cut costs pr. unit produced, regardless of whether we're talking about chewing gum or game production.

When I talk about a Bioware sell-out, I'm not talking about the business deal. I'm talking about abandoning everything what Bioware (maybe) once stood for: quality games with great plots, romances, characters, and good decent story that could rival any book, movie or tv-show. As least as I see it.

I probably have another view on Bioware that you have. For me, Bioware games were about making the greatest games first and foremost, not about making money. Bioware just made great games. And then they made money. It seems to me that the money making thing now comes first.

I agree, however, that Bioware games in the future could be Action games with a thinly veiled story or third person shooters like Gears of War. I would be sad :( to see this happen, but luckily then I have the choice of, as you see say, not to buy a Bioware game ever again, if this ever were to happen.

/aries369
 
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