Can we all agree Bethesda did power armor right?

[Irwin John Finster]

Pros

1. I see everyone complaining on this about the lore retcon concerning the power supply. Who cares?

I care. They could have went about it a different way instead of retconning shit that was clearly stated in the old games.

After watching a YouTube video titled "The Elder Scrolls: The Dumbing Down" by Samyoul Online I am fairly certain that they are just as adept at retconning themselves with the Elder Scrolls as they are with the original Fallouts.

 

[Gizmojunk]

snip

Another thing that bothers me is the T-60. Couldn´t Bethesda just fit it in by making it an improvement over the T-45 (they look quite similar) made by the bloody BoS in the 10 years between FO3 and 4? Shit, they built the Prywden in 8. It would have made much more sense than just shoehorn it as a pre-war PA when it has been established many times that the T-51B was the state of the art when the bombs fell.

All in all is just
another kick to the lore

The BOS were never able to design power armor; all that they had in 2161 was salvaged suits that they maintained. In 2241 the BOS was a shell of its former self. In 2258 ~who knows? The BOS in the CW were using obsolete found armor even then.

So while I agree it's more of the mess to have it pre-war ~on one hand, the alternative is worse, and less plausible IMO. At least the pre-war concept might allow for state of the art to mean what was [functionally] in use, as opposed to what existed in a lab, or was just released, and not in wide spread use.

(Bear in mind that I haven't a clue about the recent lore contamination; I don't have the game yet.)

 

[Swastakowey]

I don't like that they are immune to Assault Rifles etc (going off your description). In real life nothing is immune to bullets. Tanks for example have optics, external gear, vulnerable track bits and more. A unit of rifle men could in theory (with no appropriate weaponry) shoot at a tank with everything they have and disable it's ability to see. Once this is done they can then do as they please.

In this way I like the old power amour. It, through abstraction, allowed you to shoot the eyes still, shoot the arms (joins) and so on. Sure it may not be as effective as the latest plasma gun or rocket launcher. But over all it works better.

Plus the new suits seems like they would never fit military service. Humans have a huge variety of heights and proportions, so they would need to accommodate this in the suits (well more like mechs now). But it seems like anyone can fit in them regardless of leg heights etc. This means they would need to make (complicated) a variety of sizes in order to make proper use of it in wartime and no army likes complicated and expensive in wartime unless they want to lose.

Overall, not a huge fan. As someone who is tall, with longer legs than most, I can see this suit being EXTREMELY uncomfortable.

 

[cybazz]

Compared to anything Bethesda did originals are Obsidian hard and according to tv tropes it'd be around 3.5 hardness level. I said it's hard and dressed up in pulp, so there are inconsistencies played as jokes. My points on the armor ( machinery protected by an elastic material protected by the outside plates) and fusion cells stand.

 

[Gizmojunk]

They would probably have requirements in place for anyone issued a PA suit; they would surely have to pass a training course, and field test with the equipment. Fringe cases (body proportions) would not be cost effective to support, but the suits themselves would likely have a limited range of conformity to the occupant. Such things are basically robots that are puppeted by their avoidance of the person inside.

 

[Askorti]

snip

It would have made much more sense than just shoehorn it as a pre-war PA when it has been established many times that the T-51B was the state of the art when the bombs fell.

All in all is just
another kick to the lore

It gets worse. They themselves state that T-51 was state-of-the-art pre-war PA. And they state it in... Fallout 4 itself! One of the loading screen tips says that T-51 was the pinnacle of PA technology before the war...
So not only are they inconsistent with the already established lore, they are inconsistent with what they tell the player themselves!

 

[Articulo34]

snip

...Couldn´t Bethesda just fit it in by making it an improvement over the T-45 (they look quite similar) made by the bloody BoS in the 10 years between FO3 and 4?...

The BOS were never able to design power armor; all that they had in 2161 was salvaged suits that they maintained.

They didn´t need to design it, only refurbish those old T-45d. They built the Prydwen from nothing but pieces found on the old airbase after all, a giant airship that can carry Vertibirds. Compared to that, how hard would it be to improve some systems and armored pieces of an already existing design of PA?

At least the pre-war concept might allow for state of the art to mean what was [functionally] in use, as opposed to what existed in a lab, or was just released, and not in wide spread use.

In the intro video you see a soldier wearing a T-60 at the frontline while it´s being repaired. There are also two soldiers protecting the access to Vault 111 wearing it. And the whole BoS is equipped with them. Hardly a just "being tested" or "just released" armor, if they could get it to frontline soldiers and even use it on soldiers guarding Vaults.

 

[Swastakowey]

They would probably have requirements in place for anyone issued a PA suit; they would surely have to pass a training course, and field test with the equipment. Fringe cases (body proportions) would not be cost effective to support, but the suits themselves would likely have a limited range of conformity to the occupant. Such things are basically robots that are puppeted by their avoidance of the person inside.

Yep, I gathered they would have to have pilots that fit within X proportions (again limiting the pool of pilots greatly) but THEN you have the issue of malnourished wastelanders willy nilly being able to simply get in these mechs and use them as normal (it is likely wastelanders after a few hundred years would be a lot shorter). Since it's pretty much an enclosed form based machine, there is little room for expanding it's size or reducing it. (looking at the suits there appears no way to do so). I mean just look at clothes which has the same principle as the suits (put them on, move around). There are so many clothing sizes (especially for leg areas) that you would need to make an elastic onsie to accommodate most people. But since you can piece together random bits of machine, we know they have a 1 size fits all mentality without the ability to make the suits elastic. Ultimately only select groups of people could wear the armour in reality.

This could have made the suits a bit better. Have an organization based entirely on those who can fit in the suits or something.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Compared to that, how hard would it be to improve some systems and armored pieces of an already existing design of PA?

Very hard, I would expect. Those suits would need to be understood to modify, and doubtless require specialized tools to work on.

In the intro video you see a soldier wearing a T-60 at the frontline while it´s being repaired. There are also two soldiers protecting the access to Vault 111 wearing it. And the whole BoS is equipped with them. Hardly a just "being tested" or "just released" armor, if they could get it to frontline soldiers and even use it on soldiers guarding Vaults.

How do you know? They were at home inside the US; For all anyone can prove... those suits could have been just weeks in the field.

*(Not that it bothers me though; I discount all Bethesda additions to the lore.)

Since it's pretty much an enclosed form based machine, there is little room for expanding it's size or reducing it. (looking at the suits there appears no way to do so).

Think of it as probably being like a blood-pressure cuff at many points on the inside (after closed).

 

[Crni Vuk]

They didn´t need to design it, only refurbish those old T-45d. They built the Prydwen from nothing but pieces found on the old airbase after all, a giant airship that can carry Vertibirds. Compared to that, how hard would it be to improve some systems and armored pieces of an already existing design of PA?

Well, exploring that would be a lot more interesting than most of what we see in F4 I guess ... anyway, it's not the first time that Bethesda doesn't give a crap about what happend in F1 or F2 or what the loore says about something.

I can't help it but feel constantly like Bethesda is recycling a lot of content that was actually meant to dissapear afte Fallout 2.

Take the Super Mutants and FEV as best example. In F1 they have been your enemy. By the time of Fallout 2 they already start to dwindle, same for the Ghouls, the BoS and a lot more. And now? It's like everyone has some FEV lying around somewhere, I guess we will have to accept that Super Mutants are the Orcs/Ogres of Fallout now.

I have no clue how much "old" Stuff Van Buren was supposd to contain, but it is pretty obvious that they also included a lot of new factions, where Fallout 4, and even more so Fallout 3 is taking "old" factions and creatures that have been on the brink of fading just to transport them across the whole continent ... for reasons I guess?

In the intro video you see a soldier wearing a T-60 at the frontline while it´s being repaired. There are also two soldiers protecting the access to Vault 111 wearing it. And the whole BoS is equipped with them. Hardly a just "being tested" or "just released" armor, if they could get it to frontline soldiers and even use it on soldiers guarding Vaults.

That's actually pretty common in war though. See the Sherman and M10 tank hunters with 76mm canons rushed into service after 1944 to battle new German armor, or the conversion of Shermans to M36 with 90mm guns for that matter, or sending the M26 Pershing heavy tanks across the ocean right before WW2 ended in Europe to get some field testing, maybe 20 units on the European theater actaully saw some action. Of which at least one incident became a very famous battle. Pretty sad and very fascinating footage for anyone interested in WW2 by the way. However the Pershing, or better known as the M48, an upgraded vesion of the Pershing designated as medium tank, didn't really started to make an real impression before the Korean War in the 1950s.

Or, the Germans for example, they lost even more than 70% of their Panthers on their first battle, simply because they rushed them into service to be ready for the fighting in 1943 at the Kursk salient. The Tiger 1 was also used as early like 1942, even though it didn't really made it's debut in larger numbers before 1943, they have send at least 4 Tigers to the Leningrad front for field testing in late 1942.

So just released armor and designs in service next to older designs is definetly not rare in a prolonged war.

 

[Monco]

How do you know? They were at home inside the US; For all anyone can prove... those suits could have been just weeks in the field.

It's stated in a loading screen that the T-60 saw "extensive use" after the Battle of Anchorage. It really doesn't bother me THAT much, I mean honestly there are much worse retcons in FO3 and 4, this barely even feels like a retcon, it's just kind of a really unnecessary addition and obviously just an excuse to keep the T-45 design and make it more powerful for the people that liked the T-45.

 

[Gizmojunk]

How do you know? They were at home inside the US; For all anyone can prove... those suits could have been just weeks in the field.

It's stated in a loading screen that the T-60 saw "extensive use" after the Battle of Anchorage.

That's too bad then; more of the same ~crap.

(At least they said it was after Anchorage, and not before.)

 

[Askorti]

I wouldn't mind T-60's if they were actually a simplified version, something that comes after T-51, but is actually worse in order to make mass production cheaper, faster and so on. This way Beth would have their new toy and lore would be intact.

 

[Articulo34]

Something like a Super Sherman (M-50/M-51). That would have made sense.

 

[LynnetteJJW]

i personally think its really strong... heh. not really. it give amazing protection cool! BUT ... ITS THE ONLY THING THAT BREAKS IN THE GAME!
over prolonged use itd make sense with guns and other armors... but power armor is the only stuff that will break. why.
other then that. ya WAY too early. im level 33 and have 8 suits. one of which is Advanced Power Armor. which i stumbled across way too easily.
i think the X-01 should have been a MQ thing at the least.

 

[Rouce]

I do like the new power armor a lot, but obtaining it so early as well as it being so freaking over powered is just immersion-breaking. Where the hell is the character progression or balance in there? I don't mind having to repair it, it's ressource management and fine to me. I even equip my follower in PA with 2 sets of the same armor so I can just replace them if they break - which they somehow do extremely fast on companions. (Probably a balance attempt because of Fusion Cores not draining, but a bad attempt imo)

But this thing getting handed over to you in the first 15 minutes of the game as well as practically being godmode is utter garbage. It really should be an end-game item which you're looking forward to use the entire game. Like the PA in F3 or the PA and/or Ranger armor in NV. Or it should at least have either advantages and disadvantages to balance things out if handed over so unbelievably early.

 

[Articulo34]

I even equip my follower in PA with 2 sets of the same armor so I can just replace them if they break - which they somehow do extremely fast on companions. (Probably a balance attempt because of Fusion Cores not draining, but a bad attempt imo).

Doesn´t really balance much, considering that companions cannot die. Sure, with PA they take a few more hits before going down, but on the long run means nothing.

I used to equip Piper with a fully upgraded T-51f plus titanium coat (coudn´t afford the cost of repairing two T-60 or an X-01 plus a T-60), but since it would break within a couple of fights I just switched to reinforced combat armor for her. Doesn´t seem to have changed anything, she still barely goes down and only against hordes of well armed enemies (like those Gunner bases).

 

[Crni Vuk]

I am surprised Bethesda didn't went with the introduction of Power Armor like this:

Spoiler

Actually now that I am thinking about it ... it is pretty much like that ...

 

[Irwin John Finster]

I think it's worse that not only do they give you power armor and have you shooting deathclaws, but you're General of the Minutement within the same time frame of an hour into the game. If I didn't know better, I'd say Bethesda was deliberately trying to provoke me because I pointed this out with Skyrim - that you are made leader of every organization direct from apprentice by doing a couple quests only. Now I'm leader of everything simply by showing up.

 

[Rouce]

Now I'm leader of everything simply by showing up.

Hahaha.