Can you really call yourself a Fallout fan if you love Fallout 4, honestly?

The whole 'Art is subjective' concept is 100% true.
Nah. What you like is subjective. But you can't say "I think fallout 4 is well written" and not be wrong. Because quality itself is not subjective. This ain't hard.
think Bethesda may have altered it to distance the newer entries from the older ones.
Yeah that would explain why they moved forward with titles like "fallout 3" and "fallout 4" like they're sequels or something.
That's part of why they made New Vegas, to sate the fans of the first two without explicitly connecting it to the newer games.
It is explicitly connected to fallout 3 with dialogue with Veronica and arcade.
 
So, I'm not telling you you're wrong. There is no right or wrong when it comes to subjective stuff like this. I get you love the older ones and New Vegas because they stick to the story you liked. But I propose an idea. Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 are spinoffs, not really designed to be connected to the others.

Here's my source for that argument.
http://tagaziel.blogspot.com/2012/01/sequel-vs-spinoff.html
 
Alright, and on the same note, it being not fun is your subjective experience.
Which means saying it's objectively good for mindless fun is wrong. On the same note everyone who plays this game is going to experience objectively bad writing, objectively sub par shooting, and an objectively shallow Gameworld. These things are bad. That's fact. The subjective part is whether or not you care.
 
A spinoff with a number after the name of the franchise. Nope, they are sequels and terrible ones at that. They are not spinoffs. New Vegas can actually be considered a spinoff due to lack of a number, but it's the one that is most true to the first two.

This man also linked an argument from Tagz, resident Bethesda white knight on Redditt. Truly helps your argument.
 
So, if I were to say Fallout 1 were poorly written, is that subjective too? You keep acting like your opinion is fact, when in reality it's not. If I like it, I think it's good, okay. But that's no reason for you to act like something is bad, no two ways about it, never ever changeable, goodbye. There are other people out here whose ideas differ from yours. I can respect that you hate them. I can't respect you telling me that they are definitively bad.
 
There is no right or wrong when it comes to subjective stuff like this. I get
It's not subjective.
get you love the older ones and New Vegas because they stick to the story you liked
No I like them because they're good games.
But I propose an idea. Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 are spinoffs
Except they're very clearly billed as sequels and spinoffs are expected to maintain continuity just as actual sequels are.
 
So, I'm not telling you you're wrong. There is no right or wrong when it comes to subjective stuff like this. I get you love the older ones and New Vegas because they stick to the story you liked. But I propose an idea. Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 are spinoffs, not really designed to be connected to the others.

Here's my source for that argument.
http://tagaziel.blogspot.com/2012/01/sequel-vs-spinoff.html

Oh no... quoting Tagaziel is not the best idea, I must warn you. He has a long history with this site, which if you PM me I can tell you.
 
No, the subjective part is what a person thinks. There aren't definitive ways to prove it's awful. For example, if a person decides to develop a game in a 16-bit format, do we judge them because the graphics aren't as good as another game's? No.
 
A spinoff with a number after the name of the franchise. Nope, they are sequels and terrible ones at that. They are not spinoffs. New Vegas can actually be considered a spinoff due to lack of a number, but it's the one that is most true to the first two.

This man also linked an argument from Tagz, resident Bethesda white knight on Redditt. Truly helps your argument.
Just because he linked a bum argument doesn't mean another argument isn't valid, dude.
 
You keep acting like your opinion is fact, when in reality it's not
That's because it's not opinion.
I can't respect you telling me that they are definitively bad
Obviously not since you don't seem to care enough to take a second to understand why the whole "art is subjective" stance is actually stupid.

Quality is not subjective, taste is. You're getting the two confused.
 
You would be objectively wrong, yes.
Objectively? If I didn't like the story, I didn't like it. It could be grammatically flawless, but if I didn't like the direction it was taken, it's subjectively bad to me. You're so set in the 'if someone hates something I like, they're wrong' mentality. Sure, better stories can and have been told, but that doesn't diminish the game. Even if they had rebooted it and called Fallout 3 'Fallout', you wouldn't be satisfied. You'd say "Oh no, they redid the story. I hate their reboot, the old games are better." And that's your opinion. But it's subjective.
 
Objectively? If I didn't like the story, I didn't like it. It could be grammatically flawless, but if I didn't like the direction it was taken, it's subjectively bad to me. You're so set in the 'if someone hates something I like, they're wrong' mentality. Sure, better stories can and have been told, but that doesn't diminish the game. Even if they had rebooted it and called Fallout 3 'Fallout', you wouldn't be satisfied. You'd say "Oh no, they redid the story. I hate their reboot, the old games are better." And that's your opinion. But it's subjective.
No, you would still be wrong. I can not like something, but still appreciate how well designed it is. By your reasoning, me not liking a whole genre of games makes them bad. That's how atrocious your reasoning is.

A story having one dimensional characters, plot holes up the ass, contradiciting past events, making no sense and being terribly told is an objectively bad story. And this is the story of Fallout 3, it's objectively bad. You can like it, doesn't make it good.

Rebooting would have been the best. This would mean it would be Bethesda's own retarded world, and not the world they didn't created, but they are destroying with their trash writing. Meaning i could just play the first two and know whatever nonsense Bethesda is doing doesn't affect this world, because it's an alternate world.
 
If I didn't like the story, I didn't like it. It could be grammatically flawless, but if I didn't like the direction it was taken, it's subjectively bad to me.
Nah fam that just means you didn't enjoy it. I don't enjoy the godfather. But that movie is objectively well made. I do enjoy howard the duck. The movie is objectively not good. This ain't hard dude.
 
So, here's where I think you've got my intentions and position skewed. It's not to say that if you don't like a genre of games, they're bad. They're bad to you. That's the beauty of subjective arguments. Fallout 3 is bad. To you. And whoever else who shares that opinion. But to me, it's good. And to whoever else shares that opinion. Hate it for whatever reason you want, everyone has some sort of scale they measure it by. Even critics. In every case, they have their idea of what it should be, and if it falls short, it's bad. If it meets or exceeds expectations, it's good. To some degree, there is good and bad. Most often, the masses dictate the reception.
 
Nah fam that just means you didn't enjoy it. I don't enjoy the godfather. But that movie is objectively well made. I do enjoy howard the duck. The movie is objectively not good. This ain't hard dude.
Objectively, by your definition, seems to be what the majority dictates. Some people would find Howard the Duck to be a well made movie, and the Godfather to be a poorly made movie. It's like Scream. Scream was a poorly made movie, in my opinion. Yet it's seen by many others as one of the greatest films of the 90s. It's not that anybody is right or wrong. It's that their opinions are different.
 
That's the folly of subjective arguments
Ftfy

Dude it's like you said hating something doesn't make it bad
But on the same side
Liking something doesn't make it good

Fallout 3 is objectively bad whether people like or not.
Some people would find Howard the Duck to be a well made movie
These people would be wrong and possibly retarded.

Well made is an objective state of being not an opinion.
 
It's not to say that if you don't like a genre of games, they're bad. They're bad to you.
Nope, still can't call them bad because i don't like them. That would be spitting on good game design. I don't care for the Devil May Cry games, Bayonetta games and anything in that genre, but i'm not gonna call the whole genre bad because i don't like it.

Not being made for me doesn't make it bad. Being made for me but completely failing, like Fallout 3, is bad design. They have failed at design choices that are done better in other games. Not an hard concept to grasp.
 
don't care for the Devil May Cry games, Bayonetta games and anything in that genre, but i'm not gonna call the whole genre bad because i don't like it.
This is one of my favorite genres.

Actually there's a great example here.

Devil may cry has some of the most challenging action packed badass games to it's name.

Then Theres devil may cry 2

I think it's safe to say that even if you like devil may cry 2 (like me) that game is still just... Disgraceful in the gameplay department.
 
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