China will send troops to Haiti

Dixie_Rebel

Still Mildly Glowing
I find this news to be important. ESPECIALLY read towards the bottom of the article.

The Washington Times said:
China will send troops to Haiti


By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

China's Public Security Ministry is set to dispatch a 130-man "special police" unit to Haiti this month in the first deployment of Chinese forces to the Western Hemisphere, Bush administration officials say.

The first advance unit of the police troops, who are specially trained for riot and crowd control, will over the next two weeks join the U.N. Stabilization Mission in Haiti, the multinational force known as Minustah dispatched to the war-torn Caribbean island.

The main body of the force will arrive a short time later and will deploy to the port of Gonaives, say officials who insist on anonymity.

Administration officials are concerned that the Chinese government will use the troop deployment as a way to put political pressure on the Haitian government, one of the few nations retaining diplomatic relations with China's rival Taiwan.

"It's been a big year for China," says one official opposed to the deployment. "They put a man in space, won gold medals at the Olympics, and now they are going to put troops in the Western Hemisphere for the first time."

The official says China's first military presence near U.S. shores would boost Beijing's long-term strategy to "supplant U.S. influence" in the region. "China is pursuing a maritime strategy in the Caribbean to gain access and control over port facilities, free trade zone infrastructure, fisheries, oil and minerals, and off-shore banking platforms,"

For example, a Chinese company whose leader is close to Beijing's communist rulers operates major port facilities at both ends of the Panama Canal.

"They will assert political influence [through Chinese companies]," the official says. "That is where this is headed."

Administration officials say the decision to permit the Chinese to join the U.N. force in Haiti was made quietly, without a full debate among defense, foreign policy and national security agencies.

"This was done by the people in charge of peacekeeping," one official says.

China has sent small numbers of observers to previous U.N. peacekeeping missions but has declined earlier requests to send active units.

According to China's state-run Xinhua news agency, the Chinese security forces, known as the People's Armed Police, have spent three months in special training and passed exams administered by the United Nations.

Public Security Minister Zhou Yongkang, head of the Communist Party's political police and security organ, says the dispatch of the troops is an important diplomatic move and reflects China's "devotion to world peace and stability".

Chinese Embassy spokesman Sun Weide says 125 riot policemen will arrive in Haiti in early September and will stay for six months. The unit will be drawn from police troops in Beijing, Shanghai and two other cities.

A State Department official says he has "mixed feelings" about the Chinese deployment in Haiti.

"They don't have benign intentions when they deal with countries that have formal relations with Taiwan," the official says. "On the other hand, the administration has been trying to organize support for the peacekeeping operation in Haiti."

"We would really prefer to have someone other than the Chinese there, but [peacekeeping] is something we need others to contribute to. It's a difficult challenge, and there are conflicting views on what to do about this."

China has covertly dispatched military trainers and intelligence personnel to Venezuela, whose leftist president, Hugo Chavez, recently defeated a recall referendum. Beijing recently obtained observer status in the Organization of American States and will sponsor a China-Caribbean Economic and Trade Cooperation Forum later this year.

China has shipped military goods to Cuba and is working with Cuba's communist government on intelligence and military issues, the officials say.

A classified study by the U.S. Southern Command in the 1990s stated that China is working to establish bases, primarily economic, at strategic choke points near the United States, said to officials familiar with the study.

Al Santoli, vice president of the American Foreign Policy Council, says the deployment of Chinese forces to Haiti sets a bad precedent. "This now gives them a legitimate mandate for having a martial presence in our hemisphere and sets a very dangerous precedent," Mr. Santoli said. "This is something China could do more of as it develops economic relations with smaller countries in Latin America and the Caribbean."

http://washtimes.com/national/20040906-123723-3774r.htm
 
Oh God...another Communist standoff is gonna ensue...just like the 50's...JUST LIKE FALLOUT!

(hides underground),
The Vault Dweller
 
Why do you think I'm training Kung fu? Hail our new masters!

Seriously though, this is bad stuff. I want to complete my engineering degree and find good shelter before a nuclear war occurs. I just ain't ready.
 
Yes, it is very concerning news. The Chinese are very powerful. I have a feeling they are trying to take our place as the "world police". I want your opinions on what you think the United States should do. Please try to keep this topic serious.

On another note: Seriously, how many of have thought of building or have built a shelter?
 
Dixie_Rebel said:
I have a feeling they are trying to take our place as the "world police".

yes, because you are all doing such a nice job, go USA!

euhm, seriously though, how do you suppose China is taking over your place as world police? China might be a pretty powerful nation (and will obviously become a lot more powerful in the future), but where do you get the idea that they want to police the world?
mostly looks like they are trying to help (of course also make friends and shape opinions).

as for the US being the world police? most often you are the stubborn grunt rather than the police...

Dixie_Rebel said:
On another note: Seriously, how many of have thought of building or have built a shelter?

euhm, no fucking way...
 
Ehehehe. A couple of months ago China made its army a LOT smaller. If they were going to go for "world police"or "world domination" they would never have done that.
 
OMG teh commeys R comin'!!!1one!
:roll:
Seriously, why shouldn't play a similar role to other countries in policing the world? It's about time they became more involved in the "international community".
The US doesn't have a position, nor a right to a position, as world police, it's a job undertaken by many countries. Why is it a big deal that they have troops in the western hemisphere? The US for one have troops all over the planet, why is it different for a communist nation?
The cold war is over y'know.
Just sayin'.
 
Sander- a big army is not necessarily a better army. Much of the costs of maintaining an army is spent on labor- manpower. If you cut manpower down, you can invest more in infrastructure, technology and training. One very good division is probably better than three poorly trained and armed divisions.

If China is cutting back it's forces it's doing what most developed states do. Reduce the labor factor and improve the capital factors in military policy.

As for China in Haiti- frankly, I would prefer the police of Haiti to be either Latin American states or perhaps the French, Spanish or Brits. It's nice of them to get more globally active, but this seems to run counter to the US Monroe Doctrine- the "stay out of Latin American" doctrine against non-Western Hemisphere countries.
 
Sander said:
Ehehehe. A couple of months ago China made its army a LOT smaller. If they were going to go for "world police"or "world domination" they would never have done that.

That's what they want you to think, Sanders. I'm telling you. Our future is doomed if China takes Haiti. They are going to use it as a base to launch an attack against the US!!!! Fallout !!!!

The following link has all the info you need about TeH EvIl Chinese plan!!

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/China/index.html

The first article has everything about this new chinese strike against democracy.
 
They are taking an opportune moment just before (crosses fingers) bush gets fired. The world will (hopefully) see that the last two years the US's actions have been directed by a CEO, a zealot, and a chicken-hawk (Cheney, Bush, Rumsfield, respectively but without respect) and will give us a chance to regain our status. Not that clinton was all that great, or that kerry will be, but they will certainly look great relative to the current administration.

Even so, I wouldn't trust the Chinese to be dealing in world policing, as they are not exactly a reliable gov't in the way of ethics and following accepted world law.

(cuts to the oval office)
Damned them slanty-eyed wetbacks! They best bees not screwin with me grounds! (sorry guys, I couldnt help myself)
 
Killa Killa said:
Even so, I wouldn't trust the Chinese to be dealing in world policing, as they are not exactly a reliable gov't in the way of ethics and following accepted world law.

Unlike the current world police, right. :roll:

The Chinese getting involved in world policing. Well, well. Intriguing.
 
Well, i'm from China. We Chinese always appreciated peace in the last thousands of years. If we are going to be another world police we could rule the world in the Tang Dynasty.
Do you think all the Chinese are Communists? Chinese are always Chinese, and cannot be changed by a single Party. No one can deny, there are problems with our government, and i don't like it too. But i don't think they will bring wars to the world, even on the Taiwan affairs. I clearly know what's happening in China. People want a better life, not a war. We are not USSR or Northern Korea. At least, we didn't send troops to search for the weapon of mass destruction, THAT IS FALLOUT!

Is there any of you have ever been to China? You just read a news written by someone who's also never been to China, and believe that is the truth, well, i must say this is really NOT good.


i'm not angry about this, there are many people in the world misunderstanding China. I really want people to know something through their own eyes. My english is not good, i hope you guys here can understand.

war, war never changes, so do we Chinese.
 
alfred117 said:
Do you think all the Chinese are Communists?

No, but your country is ruled by the iron fist of the communists, so for all intents and purposes Chinese foreign policy is built by communists. Whether you yourself or 999 million of your countrymen are not communists really doesn't matter if 1 million are.

Chinese are always Chinese, and cannot be changed by a single Party.
so you are saying that China has always been a dictatorial regime? And that is supposed to encourage me?

No one can deny, there are problems with our government, and i don't like it too. But i don't think they will bring wars to the world, even on the Taiwan affairs. I clearly know what's happening in China. People want a better life, not a war.

Yet your nation makes threatening gestures at Taiwan, not to mention SE Asia in general.

We are not USSR or Northern Korea. At least, we didn't send troops to search for the weapon of mass destruction, THAT IS FALLOUT!

Those are two separate issues. No, China is not a communist state in the Stalinist tradition, but it is ruled by a single party with an iron fist. And what do you mean by Fallout? As in the game?

Is there any of you have ever been to China? You just read a news written by someone who's also never been to China, and believe that is the truth, well, i must say this is really NOT good.

I for one work with a number of Chinese, and also read the Economist for my internaational news. And considering the censorship you must endure, I frankly do not give much credit to your point of view either; in a censored state, how can you know that what you think is the truth is the truth?


i'm not angry about this, there are many people in the world misunderstanding China. I really want people to know something through their own eyes. My english is not good, i hope you guys here can understand.

Neither am I, and please continue posting. But if there's one thing about China that people do not misunderstand its that an oppressive state with one billion people can't be good for the world. Regime change in China is tops on many people's wishlist for a happier, safer, freer world.
 
Considering what happened in Haiti was a huge US political blunder, it kind of makes sense as to why China would want to get involved. We didn't really hear much about it. I think it was covered for about a week or so and that was that. China is probably trying to capitalize on a mistake that the US made in order to gain political power and friends.

Think about it: US blows it, China helps to save it. They've just killed 2 birds with one stone...
 
alfred117 said:
what censorship?
Like the part where girls aren't allowed to read or do anything that is "inappropriate". Or the fact that many internet sites are simply blocked off.
Oh, and how about the fact that you got a lot of circumstances where children would denounce or attack teachers or parents because they were thought to be "counter-revolutionary."

In any case, since China now has (IIRC) a smaller army than the USA, and is severely behind on the USA concerning advancements in military technology, I highly doubt that China can really have any ambition to become a threat to world peace.
 
Sander said:
alfred117 said:
what censorship?
Like the part where girls aren't allowed to read or do anything that is "inappropriate". Or the fact that many internet sites are simply blocked off.
Oh, and how about the fact that you got a lot of circumstances where children would denounce or attack teachers or parents because they were thought to be "counter-revolutionary."

History check Sander, your talking about the Great Leap Forward and other Mao ideas. Chinese women can indeed read, and the days of "Red brigades" or something are long over.

I'm talking more about firewalls on Chinese computer access, limiting information access. Also the prepoderance of state owned television and printed media. And lets nor forget human rights abuses.

That's what I'm talking about alfred117, what do you think?
 
Sander said:
In any case, since China now has (IIRC) a smaller army than the USA, and is severely behind on the USA concerning advancements in military technology, I highly doubt that China can really have any ambition to become a threat to world peace.

Does anyone know this for sure? I mean, I googled it and all the information I found still regards the Chinese army to be the biggest in the world. The numbers I found were:

China: 2,1 million active men
USA: 1,4 million active men

And get this: if the shit really hits the fan, China can come up with 30 million soldiers! 30 million! Even if they use spears and pitchforks and start throwing stones, the enemy is - simply put - fokked.

Another remark would be this: is a technologically highly advanced army really that much better? Look at what has happened and what is still happening in Iraq. Precision missiles aren't really that precise, are they? And those outfits the US army has, are probably very decent and might save a soldiers life, but what does that mean if the soldiers become less mobile and thus easier targets? I'd rather have a solid and thrustworthy AK47 and no kevlar suit instead of walking around like that Michelin man (the rubberbandman) whilst carrying a plastic firearm that looks like it was stolen from a Star Wars movie.

Just some thoughts, I'm really not that knowledgeable about modern warfare. But do not underestimate the Chinese: they have nukes too, you know, and they might not have as much experience on the battlefield, but hey: the USA does have the experience and they still fuck up continuously.

I recommend everybody to study Chinese. :wink:
 
Surely everyone remembers the Tiananment square incident. (its spelled wrong, I know) Those havent changed much since then and I believe this re-structuring of its military is much, like Welsh said, a way to make it more efficient...and thats not good!

When I have my own house I will have a bomb shelter...even if I dig it with my own hands!

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
History check Sander, your talking about the Great Leap Forward and other Mao ideas. Chinese women can indeed read, and the days of "Red brigades" or something are long over.
Reading check, Murdoch. I never said that those were these days.
Note, also, that I read in the papers yesterday that the women being employed by the government can't wear certain clothing anymore.

Another remark would be this: is a technologically highly advanced army really that much better? Look at what has happened and what is still happening in Iraq. Precision missiles aren't really that precise, are they? And those outfits the US army has, are probably very decent and might save a soldiers life, but what does that mean if the soldiers become less mobile and thus easier targets? I'd rather have a solid and thrustworthy AK47 and no kevlar suit instead of walking around like that Michelin man (the rubberbandman) whilst carrying a plastic firearm that looks like it was stolen from a Star Wars movie.
If it comes to war, a technologically advanced army really is much much better. The only problem technologically advanced armies can face are the terrorist tactics they can't do much about. Normal war, though, would always be won by a more technologically advanced army. The aftermath is what can weigh them down.

PS: Googling revealed: http://taiwansecurity.org/AP/2003/AP-062103.htm
site said:
The 2.5-million-member People's Liberation Army is in the midst of a 5-year-old downsizing that reportedly will eliminate hundreds of thousands of troops. The newspaper report yesterday did not mention plans for coming years.
 
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