Chris Avellone examines the Fallout TV Series

Resardiv said:
Just started reading; I'm so glad he wrote this in plain text. It's infuriating that so many believe that Fallout is about "muh capitalism bad" when the franchise is about so much more. (<--It's usually the media literacy types that say that nonstop.)
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Looks like the rest of the world learned about Fallout not being about muh capitalism bad. Pc gamer did an article that did the rounds on Twitter. Avellone is being redeemed live.
 
Resardiv said:

Looks like the rest of the world learned about Fallout not being about muh capitalism bad. Pc gamer did an article that did the rounds on Twitter. Avellone is being redeemed live.
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I was thinking about posting this. It’s refreshing to see an out and out communist like Tim Cain push back against this idea that Fallout is mostly about how much capitalism sucks.
 
Iprovidelittlepianos said:
I was thinking about posting this. It’s refreshing to see an out and out communist like Tim Cain push back against this idea that Fallout is mostly about how much capitalism sucks.
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It's such a boring take from communists, as they view everything that's not communism as capitalism. It removes all nuances as all bad aspects can be ascribed to capitalism as if it's one unified ideological system. Apparently, a post-nuclear warlord shares the same weltanschauung and morals as today's market liberals in DC, because they're both "capitalists".
 
Emil didn't write Fallout 3/4's corporations the way he did from an anti-capitalist lens, he wrote them evil because they're written like funny Saturday Morning Cartoon villains. They do wacky and awful things for humor, like Mom from Futurama, not because the writer is a socialist.

Now, my personal take from this? You can do the whole death of the author thing and have whatever takeaway you want from the writing of the series. Totally fine. Just don't shut people down who aren't anti-capitalist because they "don't understand that the game they like hates them". We've all seen those memes. There is nothing wrong with seeing a moral lesson in a work that wasn't out to write that lesson specifically, just don't get upset that it's not what everyone else takes from it.

I've seen right-wing analysis of Disco Elysium of all things, and of course people flipped out about it, but it's not "wrong".
 
PaxVenire said:
It's funny how Emil understands that here but not when he writes Fallout
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I don't think he genuinely understands because it's clear in the Bethesda's Fallouts writing that he doesn't (and he clearly doesn't care). The thing is that he obviously is gonna take Tim's side over some disgruntled fans.
 
PaxVenire said:
It's funny how Emil understands that here but not when he writes Fallout
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I've been seeing this idea hinted at a lot, that is the Bethesda Fallouts and TV Show have more Anti-Capitalist themes than the rest of Fallout, but honestly I need concrete example of this.

There's nothing about Capitalism or Corporations in Bethesda Fallouts that would suggest Anti-Capitalism any more than other Fallouts. Vault-Tec experiments come from F1. Jingoism was always a thing.

And the show isn't Anti-Capitalist. It's from Amazon. It's anti-corporate at best
 
Triple Alliance said:
I've been seeing this idea hinted at a lot, that is the Bethesda Fallouts and TV Show have more Anti-Capitalist themes than the rest of Fallout, but honestly I need concrete example of this.

There's nothing about Capitalism or Corporations in Bethesda Fallouts that would suggest Anti-Capitalism any more than other Fallouts. Vault-Tec experiments come from F1. Jingoism was always a thing.

And the show isn't Anti-Capitalist. It's from Amazon. It's anti-corporate at best
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Vault experiments come from Fallout 2 but otherwise I agree.
 
Resardiv said:
It's such a boring take from communists, as they view everything that's not communism as capitalism.
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Painfully true on both sides of that to be honest

Tim's answer to this shocks me zero though, because the primary message was that our need for resources and competition rather than cooperating and/or modesty (regardless of political or economical ideologies) will ruin the world one way or the other.
Triple Alliance said:
Vault-Tec experiments come from F1.
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Yeah what Piano Man said. It's from Fallout 2. Though Cain and Boyarsky from what I remember either were fine with the idea or essentially helped create the idea and liked it because it didn't really contradict with what was seen in Fallout 1 and the idea retroactively fits to the game.
 
SquidWard said:
Painfully true on both sides of that to be honest

Tim's answer to this shocks me zero though, because the primary message was that our need for resources and competition rather than cooperating and/or modesty (regardless of political or economical ideologies) will ruin the world one way or the other.

Yeah what Piano Man said. It's from Fallout 2. Though Cain and Boyarsky from what I remember either were fine with the idea or essentially helped create the idea and liked it because it didn't really contradict with what was seen in Fallout 1 and the idea retroactively fits to the game.
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I believe Tim came up with the vault experiments idea before leaving Interplay and Fallout 2, yes
 
Anyone who plays fallout and comes away thinking it's about "muh capitalism" should've been euthanised at birth
 
It also doesn't help that a lot of the Vaults have *stupid* experiments, especially those from Fallout 3 and 4, and particularly the Penny Arcade ones which are apparently canon for some reason. A lot of the Bible Vaults were dumb too, like Vault 12's door thing is still silly to me.


Vault-Tec would have come off a lot more believable as a corporation/government contractor if the experiments made sense, whether cruel or not. Less "3 people and a panther" vaults and more "Intentionally divide the Vault between red and blue to simulate political factionalism", "lets stuff the vault to twice capacity and make every family a different ethnic group" and so on. Instead, they're a wacky corporation doing cartoonishly evil things for...money? Apparently, the video game equivalent of a Family Guy cutaway gag about Amazon is a scathing anti-capitalist critique.

Also, for what it's worth, I always felt like Vault-Tec and especially West Tek was more a critique of the Military Industrial Complex, not private megacorporations. Like, it's more a Lockheed Martin or Boeing situation than Disney or Amazon. Vault-Tec said it was building vaults to protect people from nuclear warfare, and it took that mandate as free reign to experiment on the people it protected for humanity's long term benefit. West Tek was meant to cure a disease and some shit happened, and they create a super soldier program out of it. That shit wasn't done out of corporate greed, it was done to serve American interests.
 
Alexmikli said:
It also doesn't help that a lot of the Vaults have *stupid* experiments, especially those from Fallout 3 and 4, and particularly the Penny Arcade ones which are apparently canon for some reason. A lot of the Bible Vaults were dumb too, like Vault 12's door thing is still silly to me.


Vault-Tec would have come off a lot more believable as a corporation/government contractor if the experiments made sense, whether cruel or not. Less "3 people and a panther" vaults and more "Intentionally divide the Vault between red and blue to simulate political factionalism", "lets stuff the vault to twice capacity and make every family a different ethnic group" and so on. Instead, they're a wacky corporation doing cartoonishly evil things for...money? Apparently, the video game equivalent of a Family Guy cutaway gag about Amazon is a scathing anti-capitalist critique.

Also, for what it's worth, I always felt like Vault-Tec and especially West Tek was more a critique of the Military Industrial Complex, not private megacorporations. Like, it's more a Lockheed Martin or Boeing situation than Disney or Amazon. Vault-Tec said it was building vaults to protect people from nuclear warfare, and it took that mandate as free reign to experiment on the people it protected for humanity's long term benefit. West Tek was meant to cure a disease and some shit happened, and they create a super soldier program out of it. That shit wasn't done out of corporate greed, it was done to serve American interests.
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Please explain to me how the Iraq War served American interests and not just the interests of the MIC.

Also

Operation Sea-Spray - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
News flash. The population is just an experimental group for government and corpos
 
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