Christine Royce's Magic Brain and Houdini Act

NMLevesque

Commie Ghost
She is lobotomized and loses only the ability to hack computers. Making her the second most successful brain extraction known. Maybe--other successes were not noticed, or were forgotten. Maybe her brain was taken by Mobius too, and now it sits in a vat of mentats laced gel, being all snarky and what not. She also manages to escape Big Mt without the help of the Think Tank. If all it takes to defeat the radar fence is to walk into a train tunnel that would make be kind of funny I guess, and also stupid given the story. Thoughts?
 
I knew Christine got screwed up, but I didn't think they removed her brain. As for the train tunnel thing, that is pretty funny. Maybe the doctors patched security after she left but before the Courier arrived.
 
I thought that maybe Elijah took her out of Big Mountain as a slave to use in Sierra Madre, after he got the explosive collars working.
 
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Christine wasn't lobotomised, she was "only" experimented on. Apparently brain damage affecting only the ability to read and write is quite common: http://theconversation.com/alexia-w...ain-injury-makes-you-forget-how-to-read-43811

"Patients with pure alexia lose the ability to read fluently following injury to areas in the rear part of the left hemisphere of their brain. The curious thing is that they can still walk, talk, think, and even write like they did before their injury. They just can’t read. Not even what they have written themselves."
 
Check her dialogue. She definitely was.


I saw records of other "patients," and what had been done to them. Some couldn't hear anything but static. Others, just... gibbering wrecks...Never going back... and Elijah was on his way here, so I couldn't stop to see if it was something I could fix......if you can even fix what happened to me when they jabbed the electrodes into my skull and turned my head into a flashlight."

This seems to indicate she was lobotomized.
 
Was it a shock in the head, then? Or else they just extracted a little piece .....just like what happening in Point Lookout.
 
Check her dialogue. She definitely was.


I saw records of other "patients," and what had been done to them. Some couldn't hear anything but static. Others, just... gibbering wrecks...Never going back... and Elijah was on his way here, so I couldn't stop to see if it was something I could fix......if you can even fix what happened to me when they jabbed the electrodes into my skull and turned my head into a flashlight."

This seems to indicate she was lobotomized.



Lengthy post coming up. Don't take offense at this, it's not aimed at you in particular, I'm just illustrating a point.

...

Despite pop-culture, lobotomy is a very specific neurosurgical procedure that, among other things, doesn't use electrodes. It is also largely abandoned as a procedure, given that the original reasons for its usage (various mental disorders) are treated differently nowadays (and given how well-developed Fallout world is in medical terms - think of stimpaks, autodocs, mentats etc - it is not far-fetched to assume that they have surpassed lobotomy too).

Ability of speech and comprehension of it are focused mostly in two areas of the brain, that is Wernicke's area and Broca's area. The first one is responsible for speech comprehension, while the second one is responsible for speech production.
To put it bluntly, first one understands what is being said, while the second one produces speech.

I am making it all very simple, of course. These are highly complex areas of our cortex, and they are interconnected with many, many other parts of our brain and sensory/motor systems.

With that all being said, I have little recollection of how Christina acts in the game, but from what I remember, she cannot speak at all, while she understands human speech, and is quite adept at mimicry and using hand signs to elucidate a point. Given that she can understand speech and can non-verbally respond and after her vocal cords are restored she can immediately speak fluently, this implies that these two brain areas crucial for communication weren't damaged, or at least not that much.

@peadar87 has properly pointed out that Christine has a condition known as alexia (inability to read) which here goes hand-in-hand with agraphia (inability to write). These are acquired conditions that stem from cortical injury of a very specific brain area (we are not completely sure which one, but it seems to overlap parts of temporal, parietal and occipital lobe of the dominant hemisphere - areas in which Wernicke is too). In other words, Christina had this particular area of brain injured. Since it's such a small area, using an electrode to damage it is feasible (feasible in video game terms - electrodes can be placed directly to the cortex but AFAIK they are used to register impulses within the cortex, not to cause harm, but eh, I guess we can pretend it was done).

In any case, harming such a small area is a very "precise" injury.
Lobotomy is, for a lack of a better word, a brutal procedure that leaves massive, global effects both on patient's nervous system, as well as their psyche. Christina was unethically experimented on, sure, but no, she wasn't lobotomized.


It's worth noting that in Fallout world "lobotomy" is a somewhat loose term (think of Lobotomites), but as I've already pointed out, I think medicine in FO has moved past this procedure.

Also, if I am not wrong, Chris Avellone wrote Christina - he is known for meticulously researching the subjects and stuff about which he is writing, so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't resort to such a ubiquitous and incorrect term of pop-culture's understanding of lobotomy to explain development of an important character. I'm not saying he read dozens of neurology and neurosurgery textbooks either, but you catch my drift.



P.S. I should point out that while I have a solid basis in neurology, I am not a neurologist. I'm a dude on a Fallout forum that's sleepy as fuck. Take stuff with grain of salt.
That being said, I'm confident in what I've written here.
 
I don't think any of the lobotomites fit the real nature of lobotomies. The Courier also becomes a lobotomite. They are also described as having electrodes implanted, so that's part and parcel for lobotomy in Big Mt land. So her alexia doesn't rule that out. We also know she was put into a Big Mt auto-doc, in the lab where they lobotomites were invented, and came out with the same scars as one.
 
Big MT Lobotomites get their whole brain extracted and replaced with a Tesla coil that keeps them alive but on a feral and stupid state. Christine on the other hand received brain damage after a botched implant surgery, which is different, just like how your Courier got implants on top of his lobotomy. Maybe they would've eventually lobotomized her too if Ulysses hadn't decided to help her.

I thought that maybe Elijah took her out of Big Mountain as a slave to use in Sierra Madre, after he got the explosive collars working.
Actually no. Christine tracked Elijah to the Sierra Madre but she was taken down by Dog who then put a explosive collar on her.
 
I really think you really need to read up on what lobotomy is.

Me or the people who wrote OWB? Removing the entire brain isn't a lobotomy, but that's apparently what they've been doing. So actual lobotomies don't really have any bearing on the Fo variety as best I can tell.
 
Big MT Lobotomites get their whole brain extracted and replaced with a Tesla coil that keeps them alive but on a feral and stupid state. Christine on the other hand received brain damage after a botched implant surgery, which is different, just like how your Courier got implants on top of his lobotomy. Maybe they would've eventually lobotomized her too if Ulysses hadn't decided to help her.

What indicates that?
 
The in game text and interactions?

Guy plays through Old World Blues and apparently doesn't clue in on the whole joke being that the Brains are insane and their experiments make no sense and them mixing up real science with crazy Mad science from 50's movies.
 
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Well, there is some truth in it. There are people out there dismissing games like Kingdomcome Deliverence or if you want Witcher 3, calling it totall garbage, cuz it's nothing like Sykrim. If games like Fallout 3 or Skyrim are the kind of games you mainly consume and you blieve they are the epidome of RPGs, than obviously your perception will be only confined to those experiences.
 
Well, there is some truth in it. There are people out there dismissing games like Kingdomcome Deliverence or if you want Witcher 3, calling it totall garbage, cuz it's nothing like Sykrim. If games like Fallout 3 or Skyrim are the kind of games you mainly consume and you blieve they are the epidome of RPGs, than obviously your perception will be only confined to those experiences.

Yeah, that's just flat out disappointing. I've seen people wearing Fallout t-shirts or lanyards with Vault Boy on them, and every time I strike up a conversation with them they tell me that Fallout 4 and Skyrim are their favorite games and think New Vegas sucks because the graphics are bad. I stopped wearing my NCR flag t-shirt a long time ago so that these people will no longer speak to me.

Once upon a time being a Fallout fan meant you belonged to a pretty well established geek culture where it was safe to assume someone was at least mildly intelligent and had decent taste. Today it just means you're a consumer of soulless corporate productainment like anybody else.

"Hey guys, let's all go to McDonald's before we see The Fast And The Furious 26, then afterwards we can go to Walmart's midnight release of Call Of Duty Space Warfare 3."

The only thing I will say is that I think automatically assuming ignorant users here are Fallout 3 and 4 players might be a bit premature, even if true. This community is already kind of infamous for its (valid) hostility towards Bethesda fans, and I'd hate to alienate what few casual gamers actually pick up New Vegas before they can convert to liking the real Fallout games. We are a dying breed as it is, you know?

Not saying your joke was bad, I fucking laughed.
 
The in game text and interactions?

Guy plays through Old World Blues and apparently doesn't clue in on the whole joke being that the Brains are insane and their experiments make no sense and them mixing up real science with crazy Mad science from 50's movies.

I provided in-game quotes. If you have a source, then supply it. Insults aren't a substitute for a real argument.

We don't know if he's a Fallout 3 and 4 fan, so give him a bit slack. He might be damaged.

Lazy ad homs. Neat.

Don't know if he is a Fallout 3 or 4 Fanboy but he certainly seems to not have put too much attention to what he is complaining about here.

Ironic, since you're unclear on what I've actually written and what's in the game.
 
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