Deny the Holocaust- crime or no crime

[alec]

It was a time for escape coats, so the government cave one's.

That's brilliant.

 

[Jebus]

Damnit, this thread pisses me off.

Jebus: Hitler's plan to exterminate the Jews was part of his ultimate goal of creating a master race. It certainly doesn't make it right or justifiable, but it makes it his goal. Innocents died. It's either war or a crime, but as far as I'm concerned it can't be both. Hitler was the only one willing to wage total war, hence all the atrocities that we can attribute to him. You can't set down a nice, polite, sporting limit on total war because the whole idea is that there is no limit and any means are used to achieve your goal, not just fight another nation. Hitler's goal just happened to be an evil one, hence most everyone turning on him and his deserved defeat.

You just don't get it, do you?

The holocaust had nothing to do with WWII. It served absolutely no military purpose - on the contrary, the fact that so many soldiers and supply lines were held up dealing with death camps in the end hampered the war effort. It was kept SECRET from everyone, so it could have had no possible goal on morale either. IT WAS NO PART OF THE WAR. Kristalnacht happened before WWII even started. They are crimes against people, crimes against humanity, AND NOT A MILITARY STRATEGY.

Total war is a 20th century term to describe a war in which countries or nations use all of their resources to destroy another organized country's or nation's ability to engage in war.

How did the holocaust destroy Englands ability to engage war? How did the holocaust destroy Russia's ability to engage war?

Don't throw everything in the heap of total war, pal.
These are crimes against humanity.

Re: Israel: What I'm talking about here is that some of the people in charge of the creation of Israel and in charge of it today are affected by the mistreatment of the Nazis. Europe may be all "Passive and Hippy" but look at the rules in Germany about displaying Nazi symbols and such; free speech is stifled because someone long ago, among other things, stifled free speech. All this can safely be pinned on Hitler and Co.

Wait... So the holocaust made Jews evil?

Dude, you're talking incredible shit here.



And Alec, you're not funny.

 

[Sander]

Re: Israel: What I'm talking about here is that some of the people in charge of the creation of Israel and in charge of it today are affected by the mistreatment of the Nazis. Europe may be all "Passive and Hippy" but look at the rules in Germany about displaying Nazi symbols and such; free speech is stifled because someone long ago, among other things, stifled free speech. All this can safely be pinned on Hitler and Co.

Wait... So the holocaust made Jews evil?

No, Jeebs, he's saying that some Jews (not the Jews in general) look back at how their people were treated under the Nazis, and are using that as an excuse or even a reason to do some pretty fucked up shit. That's what he's saying. He's also saying that Hitler and Co. influenced a lot of aspects of the world negatively, other than the obvious.

And Alec, you're not funny.

You may not find him very funny, but I sincerely disagree.

 

[Ashmo]

The Unterme^H^H^H^H^H^H^HBelgian is right.

It's exactly what I tried to say: the Holocaust wasn't part of WW2, it just happened around the same time.

 

[Sander]

You just don't get it, do you?

The holocaust had nothing to do with WWII. It served absolutely no military purpose - on the contrary, the fact that so many soldiers and supply lines were held up dealing with death camps in the end hampered the war effort. It was kept SECRET from everyone, so it could have had no possible goal on morale either. IT WAS NO PART OF THE WAR. Kristalnacht happened before WWII even started. They are crimes against people, crimes against humanity, AND NOT A MILITARY STRATEGY.

Total war is a 20th century term to describe a war in which countries or nations use all of their resources to destroy another organized country's or nation's ability to engage in war.

How did the holocaust destroy Englands ability to engage war? How did the holocaust destroy Russia's ability to engage war?

Don't throw everything in the heap of total war, pal.
These are crimes against humanity.

They may be crimes against humanity, they were still part of the war effort. Or at least insofar that they were part of the great big plan that motivated the Germans to wage war in the first place.
The whole motivation behind invading other countries, for the German people, was Lebensraum. Lebensraum they needed and deserved because they were Ubermenschen and the rest were Untermenschen, supremacy of the Aryan race and all that.
Part of this was to find the opposite of the Aryan race, which they found in the Jews. Everyone 'knew' Jews were evil, and everyone knew they were being killed, since that happened in the streets as well. Now, the *myth* upheld publicly was that the Jews were being sent to their own little villages where they could live without harming the pretty Aryans. Fact was that they were being used as free labour and being killed. The last part wasn't propagated, as it wouldn't have helped morale. However, the mass transporting of Jews eastward was propagated, and was a known fact and that was part of the war effort since it was one of the things motivating the Germans to keep fighting: they have to get more Lebensraum and get rid of the Jews. The German command, however, apparently thought it too much trouble to actually give the Jews their villlages, and instead decided to kill them (through forced labour, gassing, experiments and whatnot) because this was easier and possibly cheaper.

 

[Jarno Mikkola]

That's brilliant.

Yes, it was, but a photoshop picture with this:

at the place where the woman stands in this office:

and a sign which says escape coats for scape goats, provided by the German army.
Might be a nice addition.

 

[Starseeker]

Actually, I find the concept of total war v.s. civilized war interesting.

My memory for historical fact has not being the greatest, but from what I can remember, almost all wars before modern times are total wars. Winners take all, so to speak.

Aztecs supposely slaughtered thousands of POWs for human sacrifice and proteins for its population. In Japan, raping, killing and pillaging is part of your pay as a professional soldier before the shogon era. And some still try to keep that tradition after that. In China, if you skip the Confucious moral code that helps to keep the upper class in power(meaning lower caste people had no rights to violate anyway), most wars were brutal and total. It's common for the new rulers to slaughter the whole gene line of a previous dynasty.

If one follows this line of thought, then all of WW2's "war atrocities" were committed by people who had won and thought they had the power to do this. The famous "Rape of Nanjing/Nanking" perpetrated by the Japanese soldiers was done as it was done less than 100(more or less) years ago.

And if I recall correctly, a lot of these "war criminals"(another new term) don't really believe they had done anything wrong. They were winners, and they did as they have done in earlier times when winners take all. Losers have no place in history. And some of them probably believed that they only got "punished" for their "war crimes" because they lost.

Maybe that is why Japan, unlike Germany, never really admitted its war "crimes" or "crimes against humanity". It's interesting to hear Japanese students who went to study in the North America and learned that their history in WW2 was a lot more colorful than they thought. There are still some extreme rightists who hold high ranking position in traditional Japanese society that have this I lost last time but I won't lose this time.

Of course, brainwashing is another topic, and I believe the current Chinese government has less righteousness to claim otherwise about Japan.

 

[EyeMaster7]

I don't care. However I am AGAINST it being ILLEGAL but FOR killing the deniers.

Yeah. Let's extermited the deniers!!! The final solution for who deny the holocaust. Kill them all, for God knows his own !!!l


Alec Vs Jebus. Someone should change the pool to call a new vote for the most clueless belgian here. eh.