Design Doc Galore

[4too]

World View

World View

.. I thought they didn't have feminism in the 50's. ..

All forms of oppression, to tickle your fickle fetishes were present in the 1950's.

It appears you need a media palatable event to prove existence.

A good photo op, featuring trendy white middle class advocates in tastefully, sexually repressed, fashion relevance.

Not real unless it's on TV.


As seen on TV.
Beaver's mom, wearing pearls while making cookies, so Eddy can gush out compliments.



4too

 

[Briosafreak]

4Too rocks!


Now Maxson bunker, i really liked this area, it`s the one i think would probably be more popular, even beeing optional, but then again options are always good.

The pics seem to be made with the game WorldBuilder, then some touches were made with some other program. I don`t know if that`s true, but seems like it.

 

[Ausir]

I just went through the Twin Mothers doc, and didn`t find anything really wrong there.

How about ZAX as a standard Vault computer and it being Vault 29, which contradicts the Vault Experiment doc (which isn't really canon, but it's not as if it's that hard to come up with another number - which they did at some point, judging from the Vault 31 reference in some other leaks).

Well, out of the three the Maxson Bunker was okayish, although I still like Puuk's and Sean's docs you released earlier more than the John Deiley ones...

What I really like about the Maxson Bunker doc is that they finally decided to make use of the Steel Plague ending for FO1:

The Brotherhood of Steel, under new leadership after the death of Rhombus, becomes an overzealous, techno-religious dictatorship. In 20 years, the Steel Plague devastates the newly formed New California Republic, and starts a Dark Age that could last a thousand years.

While the dates don't match, it seems that this ending was the inspiration for the BoS/NCR war in VB.

 

[Brother None]

I just went through the Twin Mothers doc, and didn`t find anything really wrong there.

Apart from it being badly written, I've noted before that I was fed up with tribes at the end of Fallout 2, let alone wanting to see it in Fallout 3.

There's a group of people that think tribes fit well into a post-apoc setting. I call them nitwits and sit them in front of a tv and force them to watch Mad Max 3 for 48 hours straight. That'll teach them.

Mad Max 3 was a great film, fantastic, right up until the point where a bunch of >>TRIBAL<< kids gathered around Max and started chanting Walker.

Maybe I just never got over that traumatic experience, but it surely imprinted on me the firm concept that tribes and gritty post-apocalyptics don't go together. Fallout 2 proved this again, Arroyo was one of the suckiest Fallout locations. Ever.

Anyway Ouroboros seems to have some great maps, nice junktown visuals, but lacks a bit on the Role Playing side. This area seems a bit rushed, but again there´s nothing really wrong with it.

Ignoring its name, Ouroboros reads like a bad fan-fics. That intro is horribly written and I can only hope no reference would've been made to it in the game, ever.

also it's trying to go for two or three feels simultaneously. Cult, tribe and junktown-esque PA survivor-type thing. Only two of those fit into the Fallout setting and they all conflict each other.

Now Maxson bunker, i really liked this area

Brio, I love you, man, but don't make me kick your ass.

The Maxson design doc very clearly shows that the player's path was more-or-less pre-written from the moment he enters.

He HAS to know key plot information before being able to finish a conversatin with the doctor. He HAS to talk to the doctor. He HAS to fight that insane traitor-dude before progressing.

I'm sorry, that's fine for your average piece of shit that Bioware spils over us unwitting CRPGers, but to see it in a Fallout game makes baby Jesus cry

Not to mention, again, that it's an OUTPOST IN A FRIKKIN' WAR, and the PC is just supposed to walk in like that. Even Lost Hills was easier to enter, and that was a research place not at war, 'cept for occasional raider-hunting.

 

[seankreynolds]

but wasn't the game 90% finished if i remember right ?

No, we still had about another year of design to go. IIRC we were about 30% finished.

Actually, that's incorrect, Sean. The engine was 95% done, the documentation was complete (design, rules and interface), and the maps were 50% built. We would have shipped a month earlier than originally planned (the original plan was about October of 2004).

But few of the dialogues were built, most creatures had no scripts, we still needed a lot of special tiles for use in the maps, areas didn't have their scripts. There was still a lot to do. So while my 30% may not be totally accurate, overall we still had about a year of design work (and we had spent 6 months of team design already, which doesn't count the original work that Avellone had done but also doesn't take into account all the updates and revisions we did to the story). So maybe it was more like 50% done, the percentages are up for debate, but I think we can both agree that we had close to a year of design left.

 

[Puuk]

but wasn't the game 90% finished if i remember right ?

No, we still had about another year of design to go. IIRC we were about 30% finished.

Actually, that's incorrect, Sean. The engine was 95% done, the documentation was complete (design, rules and interface), and the maps were 50% built. We would have shipped a month earlier than originally planned (the original plan was about October of 2004).

But few of the dialogues were built, most creatures had no scripts, we still needed a lot of special tiles for use in the maps, areas didn't have their scripts. There was still a lot to do. So while my 30% may not be totally accurate, overall we still had about a year of design work (and we had spent 6 months of team design already, which doesn't count the original work that Avellone had done but also doesn't take into account all the updates and revisions we did to the story). So maybe it was more like 50% done, the percentages are up for debate, but I think we can both agree that we had close to a year of design left.

No, I don't agree. At most we had about 8 months of production work to do. Design was done and we were in full production mode. All but two of my maps were built (though not scripted), 75% of my art requests were done, and item placement was about 80%. The same went for for the other designers (Jeff and Deiley). Also, my dialogues were about 50% done as well. I don't know how far you got, but the process was still pretty new to you so you may not have caught up with the rest of us. Regardless, the project would have been done in 8 months or less - this is speaking from experience from games shipped. Even Josh said we would finish ahead of time, in the same time frame I mentioned (where do you think I got that estimate from?) Hell, Battle for Middle Earth was done in 7.5 months of production (granted with more over-time than I ever want to put into a game again) and IWD2 was done in 13 months total. IWD2 dev time would have been cut to 8-10 months if we hadn't switched to 3rd edition rules at the last 75% of development. Even my current title I'm on, X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocolypse, was done in 12 months total and it's almost twice as big as the last game (and with very little over-time, thankfully). So, I have a good feel for how longs video games take to make if everyone has their shit together, and most of us did in F3.

 

[SimpleMinded]

sigh... to think that if only interplay wasn't run by morons... the game would not only have been released by now but i'd have finished it and written a walkthrough

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Breaks my frickin heart, it does, so close, yet so very far.

 

[SNorth]

If it had been released it makes me wonder if we would have continued with Mutants Rising. I think most of us just can't stand the thought of letting Fallout die.

 

[MethidParadox]

If F3 was released NMA would still be around, we would most likely be complaining about all of the non-fallout aspects that were pushed into fallout 3.

And even if F3 was good, we'd still be wanting an F4, which would totally be the sickest game ever. obviously

Anyhow, I think these design docs are extremely weak, The plot for the revenge lady was kinda good, but need a lot of work still. The other 2 locations just didnt do it for me. So far I REALLY loved the first design doc that was out just recently, with the Ghoul city and lab, that was a really deep design doc and left a lot out on the board, as well as a lot of posibilities to add even more to the locations depth without corn-holing it.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

When developers can't decide.

Good to see two FO3 devs can't figure out how far away they were from finishing. Always a good sign of a great product.

this is speaking from experience from games shipped. Even Josh said we would finish ahead of time,

Yeah SKR, listen to the man who's shipped games!

If it had been released it makes me wonder if we would have continued with Mutants Rising. I think most of us just can't stand the thought of letting Fallout die.

You would've given up because MR SUCKS! Of course we on the FMF team would've continued because FO3 would be such a piece of shit, it'd surely be the last Fallout game EVAR and only our mod could rekindle the glory days of Fallout. As for finishing in a year? Pah! We know that carefully crafting a proper Fallout game takes time and we'd devote more than that to ensure perfection.

Ego++

It'll be interesting to see what Bethesda are going to do with all of this.

If F3 was released NMA would still be around

You mean it's not!!? This sure is some funny illusion of a web-site I'm staring at here.

 

[seankreynolds]

And by "close to a year left" I mean that it would be out in time for the xmas season.

 

[Carib FMJ]

Ceaser's legion is intriguing, from the docs I gathered they will be an interesting group...

I'm just waiting for documentation on that mysterious uber badass the Hanged Man.

The Reservation was deep, and took a new spin on Ghouls... a scarry spin.

And what will Beth do with all of this... I am sure, and willing to bet a Hundred dollars to donate to NMA that they will fly with most of this documentation; improve and add where they see fit - They will most likely stay in Fallout form, but try their own things.

I guess we'll see.

 

[Claw]

You're stark mad. I don't entertain the idea for a second.

Did you forget a smiley to denote sarcasm?

 

[Rev. Layle]

Yeah, in fact using any of these design docs would not be a good idea as they now present a pseudo-walkthourgh for such a game. Bethesda needs a new design so there is an air new exploration, nothing that no one has visited before.

 

[dwave1165]

Actually i studied feminism from 1890 to 2004... and the 50`s popular culture was one of the items i was interested, because of all the stereotypes beeing thrown by TV and the movies, while pulp and comics sometimes had a diferent aproach on women. The warrior ladies and the women in positions of power would sometimes appear in pulp and comics, while only in b-movies or Elizabethian hollywood aventure/drama flicks you could see that. The 50`s pop culture is a fascinating place, much more than the Mad Max references that took some advantage in FO2...

Anyway Ouroboros seems to have some great maps, nice junktown visuals, but lacks a bit on the Role Playing side. This area seems a bit rushed, but again there´s nothing really wrong with it.

What? Huh? You studied this by a choice of your own? You were held down by a mob of fanatical bra burning tree huggers and forced to learn this? I would have chosen death! Death by Snu-Snu!

 

[Ausir]

So far I REALLY loved the first design doc that was out just recently, with the Ghoul city and lab, that was a really deep design doc and left a lot out on the board, as well as a lot of posibilities to add even more to the locations depth without corn-holing it.

Actually, that was the second doc. The first one was Denver/Dog Town.

As for the three latest docs, they were written by John Deiley - the same guy who designed Vault 13 and the talking deathclaws in FO2 - not exactly my favorite FO designer...

 

[MethidParadox]

Yea, this guy seems creative but doesnt have that Fallout ruggidness in his designs

oh, and Fallout Tactics does not count as Fallout 3

 

[Ausir]

Who ever said it does?