Determinists Piss Me Off.

Ashmo said:
Determinism is hip? I thought Skepticism was hip.

Fuck. I've become mainstream.
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If you kill yourself now you'll be just like Cobain.

You wouldn't happen to be married to a malnutritient Bridge Troll would you?
 
Bradylama said:
Ashmo said:
Determinism is hip? I thought Skepticism was hip.

Fuck. I've become mainstream.
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If you kill yourself now you'll be just like Cobain.
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I lack the handguns to do that. I also suck at music.

You wouldn't happen to be married to a malnutritient Bridge Troll would you?
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How'd you figure? My other wife is a demon garding one of the seven gates of hell.
 
Sander wrote:
Then think about this: you only think you know you exist, because you deduced that with your logic. But how do you know your logic is correct at all? You can't ever deduce that, you need to start somewhere.
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Yes, i know.
And that point for me was, and still is Decards Cogito ergo sum.(and Kant`s merging of empirism and rationalism a little bit further)
Although I have fun thinking about the possibility's of my whole existence being an illusion, I know that i exist, and that existence will not vanish just because logic, or science, tell me that it never was there.
 
I know that i exist, and that existence will not vanish just because logic, or science, tell me that it never was there.
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Correction, you believe you exist.

See, this is what makes sophistry fun. And the part where nothing can be ever known entirely for certain outside of beliefs makes philosophy interesting, really.
 
Hehe, I LOVE Skepticism. It always leads to interesting drain bamage.
 
Sander wrote:
Correction, you believe you exist.

See, this is what makes sophistry fun. And the part where nothing can be ever known entirely for certain outside of beliefs makes philosophy interesting, really.
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Yes, but how can something not existing have an illusion of existing since having an illusion requires a something that can be fooled, if nothing exists nothing can be fooled.
Even if we, let us say all contained of one big creature having the illusion of being divided into many small, i would still exist, as a part of something else, but nonetheless it would.
Equally if there are all these small tiny believing that the sum of them is me, the result still is me.
Personally i think this is one of the fix points of philosophy, if not the only one.
But still, the existence of everyone expect myself is not proven at all.
 
Yes, but how can something not existing have an illusion of existing since having an illusion requires a something that can be fooled, if nothing exists nothing can be fooled.
Even if we, let us say all contained of one big creature having the illusion of being divided into many small, i would still exist, as a part of something else, but nonetheless it would.
Equally if there are all these small tiny believing that the sum of them is me, the result still is me.
Personally i think this is one of the fix points of philosophy, if not the only one.
But still, the existence of everyone expect myself is not proven at all.
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You keep omitting this one tiny but extremely important detail: you can never know that your thoughts or rationale are correct. Never, ever, possibly can you know this for certain, it is completely impossible. And because every assessment you make is based on that rationale and uses it, there is no way whatsoever to that you are correct.
See, your line of thought is in principle correct, but only if you assume that the tools you use to reason with are correct, and you need that one vital assumption, but don't forget it is still an assumption.
The fact that your puny mind can not think of any other way in which all of this may exist (or not exist) and these thoughts are somehow produced does not mean that there is no other way.
 
Crap, by this post you do not just indicate that European philosophers have wasted, their time for 400 years, philosophising about existence and fixpoints of this philosophy, you`ve even made me realise i`ve wasted half a year thinking about this myself.
I never thought about the thoughts themselves being illusions far to complicated to realise, so now were back were we started 400 years ago. :cry:
 
If organized religion is the opium of the masses, then disorganized religion is the marijuana of the lunatic fringe. —Kerry Thornley in the introduction to the 5th edition of Principia Discordia
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I like it.
 
Principia Discordia is total bullshit.

Determinists are no more annoying then anyone who keeps to a ridgid set of philosophies without respect or attempting to understand another. It might be kind of weird linking to another debate I was in, but I just was in a massive debate on this very subject not very long ago. It's weird, but I'm almost an entirely diffirent poster there.

http://kapland.net/forums/index.php?s=07a3873e9ca3ae747c7e1de2af7a63b8&act=ST&f=70&t=11055&st=30

Crap, by this post you do not just indicate that European philosophers have wasted, their time for 400 years, philosophising about existence and fixpoints of this philosophy, you`ve even made me realise i`ve wasted half a year thinking about this myself.
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Meh. Philosohpy just went by it. Everyone adopted some bullshit manner of Dialectical Materialism or psedo-platonism like Bertrand Russel.

Exsistance? Meh. Not for me to know. Only for me to know is weather I live a Christian life.

Sander said:
See, this is what makes sophistry fun. And the part where nothing can be ever known entirely for certain outside of beliefs makes philosophy interesting, really.
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I'd hate to give you Derrida (OMFG PUNNAGE), but how do you know that your 'beliefs' exsist? For that matter, what is a 'belief'? Is it something one believes in? Well, if that is the case, what if there is a conflict in the central belief, what if the 'belief' that is acted upon is not a 'belief' at all, but rather the illusion of a belief, or a person acting out of fear that a 'belief' may not be correct? What of 'belief' then? Then only the action of the belief that exsists?

But then do the 'actions' of the belief really exsist either? No.

I would argue that all philosophy in essence boils down to alterations of perspective and the essentail changing of emotion, and it is only emotion that is known to exsist.



See? Sophistry is somewhat bullshit. Deconstructionism just went way, WAY to far.
 
I would argue that all philosophy in essence boils down to I would argue that all philosophy in essence boils down to alterations of perspective and the essentail changing of emotion, and it is only emotion that is known to exsist.
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Well if we follow the logic of this discussion, we don`t even know emotion to exist, since we also here could have been tricked on a level we do not understand.

Exsistance? Meh. Not for me to know. Only for me to know is weather I live a Christian life.
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I envy you, I really do. If i could think that way, I had a fixpoint in my life, and did not have to think about what happens to me when I die. The only problem i have in believing in Christianity is that it has changed so often, and because i can`t see why it should be the one and only true religion existing.

And, by the way I consider Desconstructionism as a funny experiment of thoughts, no more, since by it you question the tools you are using in the very moment they work perfectly.
It is like asking yourself how humans possibly could fly, while you are sitting in a plane.

PS: I hope I did understand you right, I have a slight feeling that i did not.
 
Truth is diffirent things for diffirent people. I am a Christian, and Christanity works for me, and I believe Christainity would work for most people. I'd say that makes it true enough, even if it's impossible to prove it to be true using Secular means.
 
You are right, if all people would live Christianity as intended by Jesus, there would be no reason longing for a paradise after death, since it already would exist on earth.
Sadly some people can`t live that way, no matter how hard they try, me included.
 
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