Diversity in video games and whatnot

I'm sure the Christians enjoyed paying the Jizya to their new islamic overlords very much and Saint Eulogius and 48 of his followers being put to death for speaking out against islam teachings and promoting Christianity. Very tolerant. Also yes surprisingly the Spanish who were forced to flee their own country to the North were very outspoken about their anger about their country being taken over and their fellow Christians left in the country who didnt flee being subjugated in their own land.
 
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Hey, i'm not saying that that wasn't bad... But we would have done exactly the same... And we did :P
 
Vergil said:
I'm sure the Christians enjoyed paying the Jizya to their new islamic overlords very much and Saint Eulogius and 48 of his followers being put to death for speaking out against islam teachings and promoting Christianity. Very tolerant. Also yes surprisingly the Spanish who were forced to flee their own country to the North were very outspoken about their anger about their country being taken over and their fellow Christians left in the country who didnt flee being subjugated in their own land.
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i say, its still much better than the condition of visigothic kingdome before the time of umayyad presence. lots of prejudice againts jews and arian christian (depends on the ruler, leaned toward catholic papacy or not) that happen because of no laws that regulate it. Blasphemy as a crime is happen everywhere, consider the time period. I say that as long you keep silent you enjoy the prosperity that caliphate provide. And it does marginally better than what happen at the rest of europe everywhere post migration periode
 
Arnust said:
Hey, i'm not saying that that wasn't bad... But we would have done exactly the same... And we did :P
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Fair enough (although I think it's a little more justified when you're taking back your own country) but at the very least let's agree islamic Spain wasn't exactly all peace, happiness and prosperity for everyone either.
 
Vergil said:
Fair enough (although I think it's a little more justified when you're taking back your own country) but at the very least let's agree islamic Spain wasn't exactly all peace, happiness and prosperity for everyone either.
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but its better than what it used to be before. that is my point
 
Vergil said:
They have no obligation to make them not White guys either.
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No, they thought it was an awesome story idea to do Lincoln Clay and did it.

mithrap said:
Which is weird, in comparison with the Elder Scrolls, where your ethnicity has a direct impact on your nature. If you play a redguard (aka, an african guy), you can take more damage and run faster (!) because... er... "all black people run faster and don't feel as much pain as the other people", apparently? That could come from a slaver's guide book when you think about it.
And if you play an Imperial (aka, a roman), it is heavily implied that you are naturally born intelligent and business savy. Considering how the subject is sensible, and how scandals can come very easily, I'm surprised that the elder scrolls always managed to pass through with this.
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I think it's because the fact Nords are magically immune to cold and Bretons fire. They're not Earth humans.

For example, all the Dragon Age games had black Dwarves. How does a people that lives underground turn black?
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A Titan did it. :) You could also ask how they have lava flowing downtown and they don't get burned or why they look like human beings despite not being related to them in any way if you start asking those kind of questions.
 
CT Phipps said:
No, they thought it was an awesome story idea to do Lincoln Clay and did it.
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Why did they have to attach the Mafia brand onto it instead of making it its own original thing then if its such an amazing story that can stand on its own?
eissa said:
but its better than what it used to be before. that is my point
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I suppose for some people average life may have been better but I'm glad it was returned to Christendom.
 
Diversity forced just for the sake of diversity suck big time, the most important thing is creative freedom. I'm watching Japanese or Chinese movies with zero black or white actors with great pleasure, social justice my ass.
 
Just a nitpick of mine, but Spain didn't exist until after the moors were all kicked out of iberia at around 1500 AD. Before that it was just several different kingdoms. And there is also Portugal which was formed in 1139. So using the Iberian word instead of Spain is the correct thing to do...

Sorry, just a nitpick I have (like the USA being called Americans in the Civilizations Games... For some reason makes me go nuts :confused:).
... Oh well... carry on :aiee:
 
Vergil said:
Why did they have to attach the Mafia brand onto it instead of making it its own original thing then if its such an amazing story that can stand on its own?
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http://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-real-story-behind-mafia-3s-development/1100-6444264/

They talk about their process here but it basically went, "The Mafia is a group we've never really wanted to lionize, which is why the games have such tragic stories for your protagonists. In the Sixties, you have the Mafia weakened by RICO and the FBI so that ethnic gangs [such as the Black Mob in New York] rise to power when they're no longer under the control of the Italians who can't keep them down anymore. If we ever did an Eighties mobster movie, it would be about the perspective of the Mafia when it was almost completely irrelevant."

The Black Mob works for Sal Marcano and is a satellite organization just like the Irish Mob in New Bordeaux but you get betrayed.

valcik said:
Diversity forced just for the sake of diversity suck big time, the most important thing is creative freedom. I'm watching Japanese or Chinese movies with zero black or white actors with great pleasure, social justice my ass.
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Which is kind of the humor as there's two arguments here.

1. Social Justice Warriors suck, artists should have freedom
2. Why does Battlefield and Mafia III have black guys?

Garbagecrone said:
Dozens of video games come out a year in the AAA market and you're hung up on those two? Why not just play something else if you're bothered by them having black people in them?
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Vergil's political beliefs are very clear if you visit his profile page.
 
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Why not show the decline of the mafia be from theirpoint of view like the rest of the franchise and name suggests and would thus fit in with the rest of the series? Why does it randomly become a black power fantasy with lynching the kkk in a game thats supposed to be about the decline of the Mafia in a Mafia game in a series about being a member of the Mafia?
 
Vergil said:
Why not show the decline of the mafia be from theirpoint of view like the rest of the franchise and name suggests and would thus fit in with the rest of the series? Why does it randomly become a black power fantasy with lynching the kkk in a game thats supposed to be about the decline of the Mafia in a Mafia game in a series about being a member of the Mafia?
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They could have done that but they wanted to do it another way. As mentioned, I thought they could have gone further. But I don't disagree it would have worked better as it's own thing versus Mafia III despite the tie-ins to II. It's sort of like Spec Ops: The Line where they owned the title so why not use it? IMHO, Sleeping Dogs was a better game for not being True Crime 3.

Call it Southern Crime or American Criminal
 
CT Phipps said:
. It's sort of like Spec Ops: The Line where they owned the title so why not use it?
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The issue is now there will never be an actual sequel to Mafia II, a game I really liked actually. Its just kind of a shit move for fans of the series who wait for a sequel only to get something barely related to what brought them to like the franchise in the first place.

Glad you at least agree tying it into the Mafia series as a direct sequel randomly was not a good idea.
 
Honestly, I'd love some more Deep South influenced games and this is part of the reason why I like Mafia III more than Mafia II.

Southern Crime 2 could have been "Justified: The Video Game."
 
CT Phipps said:
Honestly, I'd love some more Deep South influenced games and this is part of the reason why I like Mafia III more than Mafia II.

Southern Crime 2 could have been "Justified: The Video Game."
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Given your views on the South I'm horrified to even think of what you'd make it about.
 
Vergil said:
Given your views on the South I'm horrified to even think of what you'd make it about.
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As my father said, "Lord Almighty, I hate the bastards who can't see past the Confederacy." The South is more than a bunch of apologists and Klansmen.

I think my ideal sequel for this would take place in Florida during the 1980s and you as a Drug Enforcement Agency agent. There would be Miami, of course, but there would also be the Florida Everglades. Enemies would include the Cartels and their agents but also rednecks in the swamp plus corrupt cops.

A DLC would take place in the Magic Kingdom which has been shut down for the day and you need to deal with the criminals within.

:)
 
There is a funny couple of stories which I do think deserves to be mentioned in the diversity issue can and sometimes is one which can backfire.

Prototype 2, for example, was planning to make a bit of a splash by switching from the very white Alex Mercer (well, kind of since I don't think Shoggoths actually have ethnicity) to a African American protagonist. This had the not-insignificant issue of the fact Alex Mercer was a well-liked protagonist and had a story-arc related to the fact he was a monster. But even beyond that, the game didn't receive the praise it expected because Sergeant James Heller was a raging stereotype of the Angry Black ManTM who basically could be described as "Barrett and Sergeant Apone endowed with Tentacle Powers."

Remember Me was a French game which had received a small amount of notoriety for the fact they couldn't sell the game with a female woman of color protagonist (at least according to the developers) and they rode that notoreity to the project being purchased by Capcom. Note, this particular notoriety didn't stop the developers from marketing the cover heavily on the main character of Nilin's ass. Admittedly, the depiction of her was rather tame but the game received a lot of support nevertheless from someone who wanted a more diverse female main character.

The problem being Remember Me is well....an Arkham Asylum clone without any of the cool gargoyles to hang on or Detective mode. As Yahtzee said, "Remember Me was kind of forgettable."

I contrast this to Ajay Ghale in Far Cry 4 where the protagonist's ethnicity and ties to the country at least actually have a serious part in the role. It also goes to show you that sometimes people aren't paying attention. The developers at Ubisoft originally had planned to have Jason Brody return as the protagonist for FC4 because it F3 had worked out well for them. Also, the "Mighty Whitey" elements of the game had been successfully parodied (when not played straight). However, they wanted to do something which avoided that cliche altogether. He would be a native of the land who overthrew the evil foreign Imperialist who was occupying the land.

The thing was, they released the poster of Pagan Min (A Chinese lunatic who'd taken over Not-Nepal with his armies and acted like Idi Amin and Kim Jong Il) in his pink suit overlooking the land and they got hell because people assumed HE was the protagonist. They also couldn't tell he wasn't white.

I also point to Sleeping Dogs as an amazingly good example of a game which did diversity right.
 
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