Do you think the world eventually recovered from the Great War?

[Ragemage]

Can the world ever return to what it once was? Well if we're going by the Bethesda Fallouts, then yes. Because somehow they magically made synths that fully act like humans, eat like humans, drink like humans, breathe like humans (Curie even mentions after you make her into a synth that if she doesn't breathe she'll die) in a world where the closest we came to modern computers was the vacuum tube. Let's not forget that even though all vehicles run on a mix of gas and nuclear stuff in this world, the Brotherhood of Steel, 200 years after the world ended and around 150 years after the last supply of oil in the world (the Enclave Oil Rig) was destroyed, they manage to not only maintain but use a massive army of vertibirds without ever explaining how these things are running since there's no gas to power them with. If they can magically make vertibirds work without their main fuel source, it's only a matter of time before cars and whatnot start making a comeback too. After that, cities! Hell, magic apparently exists if we look at the Cabot House questline! Just have the main protagonist tie down Cabot and drain him of blood, then share that blood with everyone! Boom, everyone gets to be immortal, live forever, and solve all the worlds' problems! Yaaaay! *for the record, writing this made me throw up in my mouth a bit*

If we're going by Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas, then no. I don't really think so. The world may come CLOSE to what it once was, but it will never be the same. What with all our resources, gasoline, gold, silver, etc etc being pretty much wiped out, I don't think we'd ever have a world like today's society. The NCR and New Vegas (the city, not the game) about as close as we're going to get to the old world unless Mr. House's grand dreams actually do manage to come true. If Mr. House is put in charge and you have a good Karma courier that managed to unite everyone and didn't destroy the BOS (there's cut content for that, and since pretty much all cut content for this game was going to be content but had to be removed because of Bethesda's time constraints, it counts to me), along with the technology from the Sierra Madre and the Big MT, I feel like it may become even better than the old world.

Only problem with the Mr. House perfect world is that it requires a loooot of steps to get there. You have to get everyone to like you and believe in your ideals, you have to leave both Caesar and Kimball alive, you have to not only conquer the Sierra Madre but win the grand prize so you can access the vending machine in the Hidden Bunker in order to show Mr. House how it works, you have to not only leave the Big MT scientists alive so they can keep working, but you'll have to convince them that 1. The outside world isn't worth looking for, and 2. that they need to show humanity and ethics in their experiments. (This is possible by going through all their questlines, such as with Dr. Borous by saving Gabe and making him feel remorse about what he did). You have to keep both Lanius and Oliver alive so they'll be used as scapegoats for both the Legion and the NCR, causing strife between those nations so House can focus on the Mojave. So many different factors go into it. You screw up one little thing and Mr. House will most likely keep New Vegas as his own personal snow globe and focus only on it. If you, the good courier, can show him that the rest of the Mojave is also worth saving and fighting for, then you can have the best possible ending. But if one little thing goes wrong, I just feel like it all goes up in smoke. Mr. House is an extremely smart but vain individual. If 1 little cog doesn't fit, he's the type that'll throw the whole plan out.

A good example of one little misstep throwing everything off is the Freeside ending if House is in charge. If you brokered peace between the Kings and the NCR, Mr. House will send his Securitrons to fuck them up for their supposed "loyalty to the NCR". If you leave Freeside alone, then the Kings will try to attack Mr. House's securitrons and get wiped out. The only way to save the Kings if you side with House is make them go to all-out war with NCR. Then House will spare them. The Kings, while pretty much a gang, are the only things actually protecting Freeside. If they get wiped out, Freeside is sure to fall into chaos, with the Followers of the Apocalypse probably being forced to leave the area because they'll be swarmed by chem fiends and thugs. With Primm, if you put the NCR in charge of the town's protection, House will send a swarm of securitrons to Primm and hike up the taxes to ridiculous levels due to them trusting in the NCR. House is very very fickle but if you manage to do everything correctly then House is the best choice. You just have to be very careful with your choices essentially.

 

[Dr Fallout]

A famine? Only if they don't have the OSI, which they have, or if the Mojave Occupations continues without a Dam victory. it's not like the NCR is just stting un untended crops, they have a whole scientifics team.

With little funding and over reliance on mercenaries.

 

[Walpknut]

you mean like every organization on the planet? It's cheaper to pay a freelance than to waste soldiers or keep researchers on payroll, also they aren't underfunded, they even have special priviledges within the NCR.

The famine thing is a simplification and exageration of what the characters actually say.

 

[Brivoo]

Yes.

 

[Dr Fallout]

you mean like every organization on the planet? It's cheaper to pay a freelance than to waste soldiers or keep researchers on payroll, also they aren't underfunded, they even have special priviledges within the NCR.

The famine thing is a simplification and exageration of what the characters actually say.

You mean having two people, in an important NCR base isn't a bit small? Okay sure.

 

[Sn1p3r187]

Radiation isn't going to be that bad 200 years after the war. Levels drop off pretty quickly. Here's a picture of Hiroshima in 1960, 15 years after the bomb (which was a relatively small and dirty bomb by today's standards)

200 years after a nuclear war, levels will probably be slightly elevated due to longer-lived fission products, but not at levels that will actually have a massive effect. We're talking probably a marginally higher incidence of cancer, not widespread radiation poisoning.

Energy won't really be a problem either. We could quite easily power the world with solar and wind, the reason we don't is because fossil fuels are cheaper, especially once you factor in the fact that you can't control the sun and wind, and need backup storage for calm or cloudy days. If all the oil disappeared tomorrow, energy prices would spike sharply (we're talking maybe a 50% increase, not 10 or 20x), we'd probably have a massive economic crisis as everything would cost more to make, but it wouldn't be civilisation-ending.

Going to another planet wouldn't make any sense. In our solar system, Mars is maybe the closest thing to earth we have. It is near-vacuum, high radiation, and it doesn't have any oil either. If you're on Mars, you're pretty much going to be living in a vault. At least on earth you can go out the front door!

But then again. I think Hiroshima recovered so quickly because the Japanese government was still alive and the U.S assisted in the reconstruction. I just gotta wonder if the U.S government would ever actually survive a nuclear conflict and would they actually be able to rebuild. But U.S government or not someone will eventually take over and may try to focus on rebuilding what was lost.

 

[mnmn1234]

But then again. I think Hiroshima recovered so quickly because the Japanese government was still alive and the U.S assisted in the reconstruction. I just gotta wonder if the U.S government would ever actually survive a nuclear conflict and would they actually be able to rebuild. But U.S government or not someone will eventually take over and may try to focus on rebuilding what was lost.

Yeah, especially when the remnant of that government are trying to kill everyone on earth....

 

[DVL]

I vote tentatively, "yes." Even with some adjustments to interpretation of canon.

Firstly, the NCR doesn't have to be a hyper-mechanized society to do ranching. It's just that their economy is overwhelmingly agricultural and wouldn't be postindustrial. Most of the trade in New Vegas are caravaneers using Pack Brahmins. Water Traders in Fallout 1 use those modified flatbed wagons.

And ultimately radiation does drop off fairly quickly. Fallout 1's radiation was mostly limited to a few locations. The occasional spring that was "too clean" or places like Dayglow. Honest Hearts established that the worst radiation lasted only a few months before a storm blew most of it off around New Zion.

And for some reason, microfusion cells work. That's right, Fallout has cold fusion. Why that didn't relieve the resource pressures that caused the War is a matter of debate though.

 

[Lanfear]

And for some reason, microfusion cells work. That's right, Fallout has cold fusion. Why that didn't relieve the resource pressures that caused the War is a matter of debate though.

 

[Sn1p3r187]

Yeah, especially when the remnant of that government are trying to kill everyone on earth....

Ain't the world's the fault they don't understand how evolution works. But then again maybe the Japanese and Americans have a different perspective on post apocalyptic fiction.

 

[mnmn1234]

I vote tentatively, "yes." Even with some adjustments to interpretation of canon.

Firstly, the NCR doesn't have to be a hyper-mechanized society to do ranching. It's just that their economy is overwhelmingly agricultural and wouldn't be postindustrial. Most of the trade in New Vegas are caravaneers using Pack Brahmins. Water Traders in Fallout 1 use those modified flatbed wagons.

And ultimately radiation does drop off fairly quickly. Fallout 1's radiation was mostly limited to a few locations. The occasional spring that was "too clean" or places like Dayglow. Honest Hearts established that the worst radiation lasted only a few months before a storm blew most of it off around New Zion.

And for some reason, microfusion cells work. That's right, Fallout has cold fusion. Why that didn't relieve the resource pressures that caused the War is a matter of debate though.

It didn't help because the US was hoarding it. that's why the chinese invaded alaska in the first place, the US was keeping all oil for themselfs. they paid for their crimes with nuclear fire. had they shared their tech, the war would have indeed ended.

 

[Lanfear]

It didn't help because the US was hoarding it. that's why the chinese invaded alaska in the first place, the US was keeping all oil for themselfs. they paid for their crimes with nuclear fire. had they shared their tech, the war would have indeed ended.

This is really a gross oversimplification - the Fallout games have always been careful not to lay blame for the Great War on any one party. China was as complicit in it as the U.S. were.

 

[Sn1p3r187]

It didn't help because the US was hoarding it. that's why the chinese invaded alaska in the first place, the US was keeping all oil for themselfs. they paid for their crimes with nuclear fire. had they shared their tech, the war would have indeed ended.

So basically the old world U.S is basically like the Brotherhood of Steel?

 

[Vergil]

Yes, the process has pretty much started already. It'll be a few hundred years but not only will the world recover, it will be better than before since the people rebuilding have loads of never before seen/used advanced tech being found and invented.

 

[The-Artist-64]

It didn't help because the US was hoarding it. that's why the chinese invaded alaska in the first place, the US was keeping all oil for themselfs. they paid for their crimes with nuclear fire. had they shared their tech, the war would have indeed ended.

You might be interested to know that the Sino-American War actually started because of Chinese communist aggression. Canonically, they invaded a lot of southeast Asia and Mongolia, most definitely started war with the Soviet Union and then went after Alaska. As the United States went back to a more nationalist and isolationist stance, the Chinese stuck with heavy Maoist insanity and never went through reforms. It was only AFTER the Chinese attacked American soil that things began to break down in North America and the U.S. annexed Canada.

"Yeah man, totally redistribute oil. Peace and love, man." No. That's all I'll say to that noise. Nevertheless, there were some wrongdoings on both sides of the conflict, I will give you that.

Not to debate or anything, just a correction. That's where I'll stop.

 

[mnmn1234]

This is really a gross oversimplification - the Fallout games have always been careful not to lay blame for the Great War on any one party. China was as complicit in it as the U.S. were.

According to several sources(Richardson from Fo2 and Black Mountain), the great war was started by china.


"We were winning, too. And then those damn Reds launched everything they had. We barely got our birds up"
-Dick Richardson


Log 674

Oh my god.It's actually happening. We have readings across the board of launches happening everywhere. They must've thrown everything they had, and it looks like we didn't hold back either. The computer says we have 2 minutes until the first missile drops.

 

[Dr Fallout]

You might be interested to know that the Sino-American War actually started because of Chinese communist aggression. Canonically, they invaded a lot of southeast Asia and Mongolia, most definitely started war with the Soviet Union and then went after Alaska. As the United States went back to a more nationalist and isolationist stance, the Chinese stuck with heavy Maoist insanity and never went through reforms. It was only AFTER the Chinese attacked American soil that things began to break down in North America and the U.S. annexed Canada.

"Yeah man, totally redistribute oil. Peace and love, man." No. That's all I'll say to that noise. Nevertheless, there were some wrongdoings on both sides of the conflict, I will give you that.

Not to debate or anything, just a correction. That's where I'll stop.

Ugh, please prove the Sino-Soviet war (sounds nice though doesn't it?), which you've failed to.

 

[Brivoo]

According to several sources(Richardson from Fo2 and Black Mountain), the great war was started by china.


"We were winning, too. And then those damn Reds launched everything they had. We barely got our birds up"
-Dick Richardson


Log 674

Oh my god.It's actually happening. We have readings across the board of launches happening everywhere. They must've thrown everything they had, and it looks like we didn't hold back either. The computer says we have 2 minutes until the first missile drops.

I don't think Dick Richardson can be considered an unbiased source. I'd imagine the Enclave, being the last remaining hope for humanity according to themselves, would be very careful not to lay the blame on their own ancestors.

As for the log, it doesn't really support your point, seeing as it mentions both parties launching every single nuke they had.

 

[The-Artist-64]

Ugh, please prove the Sino-Soviet war (sounds nice though doesn't it?), which you've failed to.

Because of the Sino-Soviet split in the 1960s. It's simple. China hates the Soviet Union more than they hate the United States. If you have China 'eating high on the hog' so to speak, it would be the Soviets that would go first on the plate.

Remember that the Chinese invaded and annexed Mongolia (Gobi Campaign) and guess who the People's Republic of Mongolia was a protectorate of? Right, the Soviet Union. It would be like another country attacking the Virgin Islands, something would happen.

Finally, Russians have one thing the Chinese need for their war effort. Oil. It's a mad scramble for oil, and everyone wants it. Have to keep the tanks going against American power armor, so oil is absolutely essential for their empire to succeed. For similar reasons to the American annexation of Canada, an invasion in Kazahkstan and the Russian far east would be logical and not actually that hard to do. You can't have this country with a warriorlike mentality of conquest take all of southeast Asia then just leave their big opponent alone. In their strange culture, it would be viewed as an act of cowardice.

What's in between China and Alaska? Oh yeah, Russia. I would totally wage a war without nearby bases, makes perfect sense.

Nice job pulling the thread back into total war. I didn't want to have to post this, and I made it clear that I was ending it there on the last post. I will continue to post about the Sino-Soviet War in every thread I can use it in because it can be confirmed by a simple analysis of canon. You just keep on with that sarcasam, and I think I'll keep on with my posting. Thanks for always keeping it thought provoking.

 

[mnmn1234]

I don't think Dick Richardson can be considered an unbiased source. I'd imagine the Enclave, being the last remaining hope for humanity according to themselves, would be very careful not to lay the blame on their own ancestors.

As for the log, it doesn't really support your point, seeing as it mentions both parties launching every single nuke they had.

But why would the US start the great war? by the time of the nuclear ending of the sino-american war, The US was at the gates of beijing. (Galaxy News Network
Transcript of Broadcast October, 22, 2077
Thanks to the brave souls of the armed forces and our newly developed power armored combat suits, US forces have pushed back the Chinese invaders. Crippled by lack of fuel, US forces have pushed the invaders back to their home capital of Beijing. Sierra Depot GNN transcript) How I see it, China launched so that they would not have to accept defeat. Mind you, that the GNN Transcript very well could be propaganda, but we do at the very the least that the US was in china, to what degree though is unknown.