do you think there will be more karmic options in fallout 4?

Or employ method's of Grey Morality and implement a system of reputation. But, This is bethesda we are talking about. If it doesn't involve making something that explodes would even give Micheal bay an erection. You can bet your ass this won't be implemented.

#Cut4Radiant AI

#OverSeventy-Voice Actors
 
so a choice like blowing up megaton, even though you start the game in megaton, if it was a brian fargo game, would the option to blow it up be typically saved for a late game quest? i mean deciding to nuke a town is kinda a big evil act...
 
It's a hamfisted way of evil act. I never liked the whole concept and premise of Megaton and the way how the quest starts and ends is one of the most shitty things in F3. Because it doesn't feel like it was added in to the game to make some good quest but to only to have as an excuse for a pretty mushroom cloud. I really think that a quest whith the target of blowing up a whole town, one of the few locations of F3 that could be eventually called a settlements isn't something that should be simply finished in 5 min. of gaming ... I mean for fucks sake you could make a whole own plot around a nuclear bomb. It still baffles me how the shitty BoS runs around looking for all kinds of tech and scraps ... but ignoring that nuke completely. No one even really mentions it.
 
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It's because Fallout 3 was written in the flattest, most shallow way possible.

Instead of a big alive world, you have a theme park where everything is separated and nothing even interacts.

Oh and there's vampires, bleh!
 
Soapstone said:
so a choice like blowing up megaton, even though you start the game in megaton, if it was a brian fargo game, would the option to blow it up be typically saved for a late game quest? i mean deciding to nuke a town is kinda a big evil act...
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I think nuking Megaton, if it was going to happen, ought to have been reserved for a climactic narrative event. It should be the culmination of working for Mr. Tenpenny, not the very first thing he asks you to do.

I mean, look at the potential nuclear explosions in each Fallout game:
Fo1: The nuclear bomb (that the Master was afraid of) is detonated after the Master is defeated (either you pop it or he does).
Fo2: The Oil Rig is self-destructed with a nuke after you have thwarted the Enclave.
Fo:NV: Ulysses baits the Courier into detonating an ICBM near hopeville to send a message about unintended consequences (also the end of LR, potentially.)
Fo3: You can blow up Megaton within 5 minutes of leaving the vault because a man promises you 500 caps for mass murder.

The message Fallout games should be sending is that nuclear weapons are horrible, that we should fear them, and that we should hope that no one ever uses them again. Not that they are fun or trivial. (This is, FWIW, why I *HATE* the Fat-Man item.)

So if you wanted to still include "detonating Megaton" as an option in Fo3, there should either be a good reason for doing so, or it should be the last thing Tenpenny asks you to do after a lengthy series of quests where your ethics become increasingly compromised. If there was something like "there's not enough food, water, or electricity to sustain both communities, so one has to die" that would be a better use of that bomb than the one the game included.
 
The Megaton explosion was cheap, with a meh reason. To most it's a fair enough reason (there is actual lore reasons for it) that there is a bomb and Tenpenny wants to get rid of it, but they handled it so badly.I agree with Cabbage about working through a group of quests, but one thing that bugs me is that no one has disarmed the bomb till you come. That was mind numbingly stupid.

"Oh this bomb may blow up, so let's wait till some random shit comes and disarms it for us."
"What if he never comes?"
"... We can wait..."
 
There is a bomb and I want to get rid of it and also killing everyone because it's in my sight, how's that conected to any lore. Except beeing a psyopath is some kind of conection :ugly:
 
Well... the reason you want to do it is your's alone... but Tenpenny wants to force people to go to his expensive 'hotel' and exploit the local populace. Dumb but reasonable. Now how they did was shit...
 
I still fail to see how that's reasonable.

There is no other reason than "LULZ! I WANNA SEE MUSHROOM CLOUD!".

You should not forget that we are talking about a wasteland here. In a wasteland where every resource counts - aparantly not for Fallout 3 of course, but let us go with logic. And humans and towns are resources too. Blowing it up just for giggles is one of the most stupid things you can do.

I don't want to attack you, but I have yet to hear one sound argument that actually is at least slightly understandable outsode of (...)Mister Burke who wants you to help him detonate it, as his employer, Allistair Tenpenny, considers Megaton a blight on the landscape of the Capital Wasteland;

The only reasonable explanations are that Tennpenny and Burke are psychopaths. Outside of that there is nothing else going on.

*Edit
But to be fair, I am somewhat biased because I absolutely LOATHE the whole premise of it as a whole, Tennpenny and everything that surounds him makes zero sense in a world like Fallout particularly one shown like in Fallout 3. They are displaying a form of eccentricity that simply doesn't fitt to a PA setting in my opinion. Maybe more to a world like Bioschock really - just the character and his personality. What I expect in a Fallout setting, if we have to really use someone that has wealth and power, than it would be first citizen Lynette and Vault city or @Gizmo and Junktown. But all of the villains in F3 are really more on the side of psychopaths sadly ... there is no variation.
 
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Another peculiar detail about Tenpenny is that he's supposed to be an Englishman. We also have Moriarty who came with his father from Ireland. So the first question is, since when is intercontinental travel something that happens in the Fallout universe, and the second - why would anyone emigrate to what was arguably the most devastated part of the country most devastated by nuclear war? And even though they come from a far away land that most people in the Fallout US don't even know exitsts, you can't ask them a single thing about it, or how they made the journey across the Atlantic. As if the only purpose of their backstories is for them to have accents.
 
The narrative Logic is that Tenpenny is a rich snob so that means englishman, and Moriarty has the name of Sherlock Holmes' arch enemy so he is Irish. They never gave it any thought at all beyond that. Hell, the people in Post Apoc Boston don't even have Bostonian Accents. That's the level of not giving a fuck Bethesda has towards it's writting and setting.
 
The odds of a Bostonian having that trademark Boston accent is about 50/50.

And only ten percent of the ones who do have it have the real hard version.

You know, the whole "Caaah in dah paahking laaaht" deal.

I figure it's mostly determined on a person to person basis, but to be fair, I'm kind of glad they're not trying to force the accent too hard.

I mean, there's probably going to be some characters who have it and I imagine those characters are going to have forced subtitles.
 
The Boston accent's going to be featured undoubtedly, but if it's not up to your expectations, that can easily be explained by the alternate future of Fallout.

A karma cap depending on negative actions to specific set piece situations is what I would like. The lowest the cap could go would be neutral.
 
Practicat said:
A karma cap depending on negative actions to specific set piece situations is what I would like. The lowest the cap could go would be neutral.
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I think how New Vegas handled reputation, with positive rep and negative rep tracked on separate axes and the combined value being what affects the world is the right way to do it. After all, the message that "do good things and the bad things you did will be forgotten" is kind of a terrible message to send with your mechanics. You can completely absolve yourself for blowing up Megaton in Fo3 if you give 20 bottles of water to beggars, which is both dumb and kind of offensive. I mean, you kill more than 20 people when you blow up Megaton, I get that human life is cheapened in the wastelands but come on...

Karma is better tracked as a "general reputation" than some sort of metaphysical notion of goodness or badness.
 
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I don't know, I liked how a lot of the Mojave natives in New Vegas had Cowboay like accents (No idea of the correct term for that accent). Gave them a lot of character, even Easy Pete is memorable thanks to his particular way of talking. In FO3 everyone (Dukov, Moriarty and Tenpenny being exceptions) had neutral accents, that combined with the cartoonish performances robbed all character from them, it became more of a Script reading than a performance.
 
Hey I hate Fallout 3 so I ain't going to argue. But in my opinion... scrap Karma all together! Use reputation for different factions and settlements! Like a mini-karma (though not numbers, titles) for each settlement. Maybe add a kind of gossip system, so depending on what you do it may get spread around the wastes. Also your actions change it, joining one faction may make another dislike you and so on.

Sadly... Bethesda...
 
I think everyone here agrees that the Karma system should've been scrapped since Fo2, specially because FO2 introduced the reputation system in the first place and Karma was kind of superficial in handling things.
 
Yeah I always wondered about that... I considered it a kind of overall reputation, like the gossip systen I put forward but less realistic and changeable.
 
I proposed a karma system with both a Threshold mechanic and a set of automatically gained Karam perks that would affect your standing with the factions in addition to the Reputation system, but now that I think about it maybe it would be better to just discard karma and instead work the threshold system and the perks into the reputation system. Maybe still have some Cross Faction perks if you do a Heinous enough act (Or enough amazingly selfless ones too). And they would have negative on positive effects. That way yo ucan avoid the idea of getting a punishments from the heavens for stealing cans even if nobody saw you doing it.
 
Agreed. I hated that...

Simply just lose reputation if you steal and get seen. And it can be changed by a multitude of things such as quests and choices.
 
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