Does Nuking both Nations at the end of LR destroy them?

Atomic Postman

Atomic Postman

Vault Archives Overseer
Does choosing to nuke both the NCR and Legion at the end of Lonesome Road Destroy them or does it just severely cripple them.

The LR ending slide implies it destroys them, but then half of the base games ending slides wouldn't make sense.
 
IRC nuking both nations severe cripple the Mojave Campaign making them weaker and it's a hard hit to the full nation.
 
Like Emperor said, it destroys their main trading routes to the Mojave, crippling their campaigns and weakenning their home region too.
 
Ulysses said he doesn't intend to destroy NCR nor Legion but cut thier throat(main supply lines of them)
 
Yeah, but nuking both sides launches all the nukes in the divide all over their territory whereas I think Ulysses plan was to fire one or two nukes at NCR supply lines.


"The Divide erupted in fire, violent, red as the last message of the two Couriers arced into the sky... The missiles rained like spears down on the land, burning flags and communities alike... destroying all they struck. The history of the West was erased for the second time, thorough and complete... and America slept once more"


That seems to imply that both nations are destroyed entirely, or are at least severely crippled.
 
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Yeah, but the ending slides are narrated by Ulysses, in the style of Ulysses, with all its hyperboles and poetic talk.
As cool as it sounds, I don't think nukes obliterated either.

However, one could argue that by cutting the "throats", Courier brought on the slow and painful death for both the Bull and Bear, which could/would result in "America sleeping once".
 
Even though it's very poetic and vague, I still think it implies they are destroyed "The History of the West was erased for the second time thorough and complete "

It's obvious he means the NCR and its history, thorough and completely destroyed.

To add on to the implications, all the talk of one man being able to make or break a nation seems like it's important in terms of implications and meaning.

Even if I'm wrong about that, you are still "cutting the throats" of both nations, more obviously implying you are killing them by destroying trade routes and trade hubs.
 
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You can basically say that by launching the missiles The Courier started a series of events that leads to a civil war in the homelands that destroyed both nations.
 
Emperor said:
You can basically say that by launching the missiles The Courier started a series of events that leads to a civil war in the homelands that destroyed both nations.
Click to expand...


Sure. That's another interpretation.

What we can say for sure is that, if you launch nukes, both sides will eventually die out.

The vagueness of the sentence is intentional - it is open for interpretation - and canon featured in future games - whether they died from "bleeding out" (quite a many metaphors and symbols in this thread), internal civil conflict, financial crisis, simple territory/cultural/military dissolution etc. The list goes on.
 
I found some articles with interesting quotes from Avellone.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/intervie<wbr style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(214, 186, 208);">ws/105836-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc<wbr style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(214, 186, 208);">-post-mortem-interview-part-one.htm<wbr style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(214, 186, 208);">l

Lastly, with regards to the DLCs, I believe Ulysses is correct, a new framework of civilization is the only solution for the Mojave and the Legion and NCR are self-destructive institutions (the Legion is more a slow burn than NCR is) and both should be cleansed with fire. ~ Chris Avellone

http://www.gamebanshee.com/intervie<wbr style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(214, 186, 208);">ws/105885-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc<wbr style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(214, 186, 208);">-post-mortem-interview-part-two.htm<wbr style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(214, 186, 208);">l
Lastly, I wanted to nuke the Fallout world to reset things. NCR's getting a bit big, and it's making things too civilized. Lonesome Road was a way of resetting the culture clock. ~ Chris Avellone
 
If you ask me, the world might need a "reset", but Lonesome Road was a very bad and rushed way of doing it.
It's an add-on, canonical, but still optional content not present in the vanilla, and it's a one possible ending of several. Not to mention that it is, as has been said before, very vague in description.
Plus, as Emperor points out, that decision is left to Beth.

I'm sorry, MCA, I love you, but this wasn't the best call.
Unless you wanted to say to Beth:
"You fucked FO world so much, so you might as well nuke it to shit again. Have another excuse to make a GRIMDARK Fallout game a la Fallout: Capital Wasteland.
Well, I've done it for you.
No need to thank me, just pay me my royalties.
Enjoy your stay."

In that case I love that man even more.
 
Yeah, I think they are meant to ensure a slow death for which ever country you nuke and if not at least severely weaken them.

I disagree with Avellone when it comes to "resetting" the West. I think it should be allowed to develop. There are still plenty of other places to make a Fallout game other than where we have been. No need for NCR to expand much further in the near future anyway. The world is going to get back on its feet eventually, the war marked the start of a new dark age but not the end of everything. There's no reason a sequel, prequel or midquel in some new location can't be made.
 
AlphaPromethean said:
Does choosing to nuke both the NCR and Legion at the end of Lonesome Road Destroy them or does it just severely cripple them.

The LR ending slide implies it destroys them, but then half of the base games ending slides wouldn't make sense.
Click to expand...

Nukes are going for main cities/towns, not only trade routes like others are saying.
When you're choosing what you want nuke, you can see that warning about cities. :)

My some PM about it to other user:

As I said in topic, ending slides are not that important.

I even linked some let's play from FNV Lonesome Road, when someone was choosing his victim. And when you are choosing, there is cleary said, that major cities will be wiped out, so you don't need to have any text in endings to support it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB_LXgk-nkE - 0:04

"This will launch Ulysses' missiles against targets in the heartland of the NCR, raining nuclear fire down on it cities and its people."

As for Legion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxLBSCZ1-xI

0:23

"This will launch Ulysses' missiles against targets in the lands east of Coloardo controlled by Legion, raining nuclear fire down on its cities and tribes... (...)."
Click to expand...
 
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As far as the NCR is concerned, they aren't doing to well anyways. It wouldn't surprise me if the NCR loses Baja or areas near the Shi in future games because they can't maintain their power over such a large area. They can't even take the Mojave, that must mean there are supply issues at the far ends of their territory. It wouldn't be hard for some break away group in Baja to contest the NCR and push them out creating their own Republic or series of independent towns.

As for the Legion, assuming the NCR or House ending becomes canon, I'd expect the Legion to start to unwind. Caesar is disgraced and the Legionaries start to question his leadership, then the tumor kills him a few months after the campaign. Then the Legate becomes the new Caesar and leads a disastrous campaign against the Midwestern BoS which ends in his death and the Midwestern BoS invading the northern parts of the Legion and maybe going at New Vegas from the northeast.
 
If the NCR ending is canon, then they have a far more powerful energy supply than ever, which means factories. The point of taking the Mojave was actually that. They aren't really supply constrained, but have to, you know, cross a desert to get supplies there, where they currently had no sustainable economy. Expanding is always expensive, and they weren't reaping the benefits just yet.
 
Hanlon complained about how the NCR is under supplied and over stretched, same with the arms dealer in the 188. And many other NCR NPCs made similar remarks.
 
I think the NCR stationed at Mojave have the supply problems. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly.
 
That's how I recall it, too, that's my point. They are stationed since not too long ago, their crops aren't really catching up due to the drought they're suffering (there's even a quest about that, to help the sharecroppers), and the supply line is a problem in general. I don't remember any clue about the rest of the NCR being supply constrained. IIRC, there's even a choice to make about that involving the Crimson Caravan: you can choose to allow them to keep going because the NCR needs them to get supplies to the Mojave. But, first, those supplies need to exist in the NCR...
 
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