Don't like it? Mod it!

[TorontoReign]

The number one reason for owning a gaming pc! Mods baby! Some may be a bitch to get working but boy are they worth it! Lore friendly or not: Nude mods, Total Conversions, Overhauls, Tweaks/bugfixes, or map packs - Everyone has used a mod at some point if they game on a pc. Back in the old days it may have been a wad for Doom. A few map packs for Duke3d maybe? Custom adventures in Dink Smallwood? Some might like the loot mods for Diablo 2, others the different civilizations you can add on Civ 5. Most love the kind of patches that fix broken games like Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines, or Killap's famous Restoration patch for Fallout 2.

As far as I'm concerned, I can't even play some games anymore without them being modded. Fallout New Vegas is one of them. That one is particularly fun because I know how to use the GECK a little. Other mods I am fond of are the ones for Duke3d, Doom, Don't Starve, System Shock 2, Crusader Kings 2, anything Fallout really, and lets not forget Xcom's Long War mod. The point of this thread is to talk about your experience with mods. Whether it be mods you have used, mods you like, mods you worked on, or simply why you might not want to use mods. Maybe even speak about mod ideas you may have. Have at it folks!


Here is a good one for Duke3d:http://hrp.duke4.net/download.php

It may be too much for some, but this is a good Doom mod if you are in for something different: http://www.moddb.com/mods/brutal-doom

Now for something a little different for Fallout New Vegas. Bring back the glory days of Sega with Chakan the Forever Man!: http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/55713/?

 

[SnapSlav]

The number one reason for owning a gaming pc! Mods baby!

Coulda sworn there were lots of other, better reasons. Customization. Knowing exactly what you bought. Performance. Multilateral uses beyond gaming.

I always thought of mods being a negative point regarding consoles, rather than the other way around.

 

[mobucks]

It's also my # 1. I don't mod every game I play but 90% is a pretty safe bet.

 

[1fps-warlock]

It's funny how you put xcom in the same category as doom, that is open source.
Let's not forget how we needed to hex edit the executable to enable dev console in that game.
And how the publisher patched it to discourage modding. And how steamworks replaced the data with no way to revert back.
How about cookedPCconsole that you need to tear apart and rebuild to edit minor things.
Things that are normally found in configuration files of PC games, but always hardcoded in console ports.

So you say xcom supports modding, but you don't mention curse platform, where you can code your own interface in lua.
You don't mention battlenet platform with thousands of maps and custom modes, or sc2 and warcraft3 editors?
Are you aware that sc1 was ported into sc2 engine by the mapping community and released for free?
How about source games, where you can mod everything you want? Have you seen Black Mesa?

I'll rate your post because of that brutal doom remark tho.
I prefer doom reborn, but brutal one is still great, seems really hard to find quality stuff like that nowadays.
It's probably because most devs target the majority market and don't give a damn about PC.
Development driven by greed is the worst kind of development because the dev will see modding as competition.
Not a community effort to make the game better, but a a source of ideas for his DLC content.

There's a similar problem in early access, that is made popular by the media.
Where previously there were bug bounties, you now need to pay the dev to beta test and provide bug reports.
It's a joke and anyone with half a brain will know how much the exploit is worth to a programmer.
Can't really blame the dev, because I would also prefer if someone paid to do my work for me.
Because of this, you get complete idiots hunting bugs, and that leads to exploits not getting fixed for months, even years.

I was fooled by 'mod-able' console port once, but it will not happen again.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I would say mods are really a love/hate thing in my opinion. Mods, like the ones that change the whole game have lead to such incredible games like Counter Strike, Day of Defeat, and many more awesome stuff based on the Half Life 1 engine, in my opinion, somewhat the golden age of modding, modding for it self has become a bit more difficult today because many games, at least popular games, work now on systems that make it impossible to modd the game without either breaking some ToS or what ever. Just take a look at Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 as best example, there are no real mods for Diablo 3 because Blizzad keeps Diablo 3 on a leash that is so tight that it simply doesnt allow for anything outside of the "norm", while Diablo 2 with its open and closed BNet was a lot more mod friendly. Infact developers can make modding extremly difficult by the way how they writte the sourcecode for their game, if I remember correctly. Though the advantages of modds can be incredible. On the other side when I am looking at most Bethesda titles, (in my opinion) you can barely play the game without mods, and many of the mods offer you things that should be actually part of the game when buy it ... like better textures, better user interfaces and many other quality improvements, like balance mods and in some cases even bug fixes. This is in some way the "evil" side of mods, because games like Skyrim, Oblivion and Vegas receive positive views becaues of positive mods, I doubt that Oblivion or Skyrim would have be as succesfull if they didnt support modding with their cration kits. The games are crated as Sand Box experiences for players and modders, in that sense it makes the developers (in my opinion) sometimes lazy, why have a great story or narration? Why a lot of well made quests? Just make a big sand box with some tools and some story thrown in, and let the community do the rest! I am not trying to bash Bethesda right now, but they are a good example. Mods should enrich games, giving you new experiences, maybe SOME quality improvements, like high quality textures, but bug fixing? Fixing "design mistakes" (bad user interfaces ...), that is not what modders should do, but sadly they have to in some cases. For example, I could not imagine to play a game like Vegas or Skyrim without mods, though the Witcher 1 or Witcher 2? No problem, they are awesome games even without mods, as long you play them with the latest patches which fix allmost all the issues.

Though I am missing today mods like Counter Strike, Tactical Ops, Darkest Hour/Red Orchestra, mods that turn a game completely around.

 

[Walpknut]

I love mods, more devs should release mod kits. Mods do run the whole gamut of quality, from the stellar to the terribly done pervy shit; (and there is some stellar pervy shit too, although is far rarer) but that's the beauty of it.

Also Crni, Skyrim and it's ilk are pretty popular in consoles too, where they can't mod anything because of their peasantry, so I don't think mods have anything to do with the popularity or laziness of those games, they are just a plus.

 

[1fps-warlock]

I doubt that Oblivion or Skyrim would have be as succesfull if they didnt support modding

I don't think skyrim can be taken as a textbook example of how console port modding should be done.
You have to look all the way back into Morrowind to understand why. It was successfull, regardless of modding.
Because it started as a PC game, it's well documented, and therefore easily modded.
TESV configuration file has ~1500 lines, to put things into perspective.
Flash interface does suck, but it's still fairly easy to rewrite, even though I personally prefer lua.
Point is, console version of that game does not hurt the PC version in any way, shape, or form.
It only adds functionality to already successfull game, similar to how mods add functionality to Morrowind.

Problems arise when the game is written primarily for consoles, and then ported to PC.
That kind of game lacks any documentation and configuration is mostly limited to what you find in the menu.
Since there's no point in writing new cvar because is useless on console, PC version will have none.
Then, a publisher gets this bright idea of how skyrim is also a console port and declares the game is moddable.
While in reality, you need reverse engineering skills to change some trivial stuff like mouse acceleration.

That's why I believe a game must be written primarily for PC to reach half the level TESV currently has in terms of modding.
Otherwise, it will fail at the start, because not many PC players are willing to turn their machines into consoles.
Regardless of what the corrupt mass media has to say about that.

there are no real mods for Diablo 3 because Blizzad keeps Diablo 3 on a leash that is so tight that it simply doesnt allow for anything outside of the "norm", while Diablo 2 with its open and closed BNet was a lot more mod friendly.

A comment about tight battlenet control stands, I don't play D3 but I agree that the old battlenet was better for both modders and players alike.
However, you can still play and mod starcraft for free, which doesn't really apply to any beth title that I know of.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I don't think skyrim can be taken as a textbook example of how console port modding should be done.

With success I mean that (probably) a lot of people would have stoped playing Skyrim, Oblivion and F3 much sooner, simply out of boredom if not for mods that spice up the gameplay with new features, items and all that. Because at the end of the day, most of Bethesda games are hiking simulators filled with 95% of the simplest fed-ex quests you can imagine and once you saw one nord ruin you saw them all anyway. With Morrowind this was acceptable, because when Morrowind came out, the kind of open world game we see today was still a somewhat fresh concept, more or less. But today? In a time where you have open world games and sand box experiences in almost every genre it starts to become dull, at least in my opinion.

Also Crni, Skyrim and it's ilk are pretty popular in consoles too, where they can't mod anything because of their peasantry, so I don't think mods have anything to do with the popularity or laziness of those games, they are just a plus.

It is just a guess on my side, I mean pretty much all of the Bethesda titles get a lot of prise for things they simply dont deserve in my eyes, and I AM NOT SAYING THOSE GAMES ARE NOT FUN, but winning awards for writing in F3 or looking at Skyrim as the pinacle of role playing with the emphasis on role playing? That is kind of a stretch. I mean one must probably have to suffer from some brain damage to seriously think F3s writing is really on the level where it deserves awards, I am not saying everything is shit, but in my opinion something to deserve awards has to be at least, no clue, "special" in some way, outstanding, better then what we have seen before, and no one can tell me that F3s writing was even remotely as good like what we saw in games like Planescape Torment or a few other RPGs.

In that sense Bethesda games get a lot of bonus from the mods, companion mods, aditional quests, interesting NPCs, visual improvements to towns/settlements etc. Because the game is such a great sand box to work with. What I mean is, Bethesda games get a lot of great/awesome reviews and almost no (serious) criticism, so there is no point for the developers to ever question their own work or formula - I understand it, I would not change anything either, its how they make a ton of money after all. So probably less about lazy work or design, but in my eyes Bethesda is to gaming what Mc Donalds is to food.

Also success on the console, I guess that is true, no clue. Anyway, this is about mods, not about Bethesda afterall. Most of the time mods are a great thing, and I think it is sad that so many companies make it more difficult to mod games, like aEA, Ubisoft and such.

 

[TorontoReign]

The number one reason for owning a gaming pc! Mods baby!

Coulda sworn there were lots of other, better reasons. Customization. Knowing exactly what you bought. Performance. Multilateral uses beyond gaming.

I always thought of mods being a negative point regarding consoles, rather than the other way around.

You are immune to hyperbole.

It's funny how you put xcom in the same category as doom, that is open source.
Let's not forget how we needed to hex edit the executable to enable dev console in that game.
And how the publisher patched it to discourage modding. And how steamworks replaced the data with no way to revert back.
How about cookedPCconsole that you need to tear apart and rebuild to edit minor things.
Things that are normally found in configuration files of PC games, but always hardcoded in console ports.

So you say xcom supports modding, but you don't mention curse platform, where you can code your own interface in lua.
You don't mention battlenet platform with thousands of maps and custom modes, or sc2 and warcraft3 editors?
Are you aware that sc1 was ported into sc2 engine by the mapping community and released for free?
How about source games, where you can mod everything you want? Have you seen Black Mesa?

I'll rate your post because of that brutal doom remark tho.
I prefer doom reborn, but brutal one is still great, seems really hard to find quality stuff like that nowadays.
It's probably because most devs target the majority market and don't give a damn about PC.
Development driven by greed is the worst kind of development because the dev will see modding as competition.
Not a community effort to make the game better, but a a source of ideas for his DLC content.

First off. That seemed a bit rude. Slow your role dude. I know everything you just talked about. I don't need a damn history lesson. I could have written a several page essay on mods and which ones I liked, but I left it with a few to see if others had more to say. I have often posted several pages worth of material before only to get 5 fucking comments so excuse me for not listing every mod in existence that you like. I'm talking about mods in general. I could have chosen to say a lot, but I left you to say something right? Yes I know Warcraft 3 is moddable as shit. Do I also have to mention that there is a mod for Arma 2 called DayZ? I'm asking for people to list mods they like with links if they feel like it. Leave a link if you have one thanks bunches.

 

[1fps-warlock]

The point of this thread is to talk about your experience with mods.

If you want links then just say so, instead of asking for xp ^
And that's some thin skin you got there, I wasn't even trying to be rude.
No idea how you got that impression, maybe my english is not delicate enough for you.

 

[TorontoReign]

It's funny how you put xcom in the same category as doom, that is open source.
Let's not forget how we needed to hex edit the executable to enable dev console in that game.
And how the publisher patched it to discourage modding. And how steamworks replaced the data with no way to revert back.
How about cookedPCconsole that you need to tear apart and rebuild to edit minor things.
Things that are normally found in configuration files of PC games, but always hardcoded in console ports.

So you say xcom supports modding, but you don't mention curse platform, where you can code your own interface in lua.
You don't mention battlenet platform with thousands of maps and custom modes, or sc2 and warcraft3 editors?
Are you aware that sc1 was ported into sc2 engine by the mapping community and released for free?
How about source games, where you can mod everything you want? Have you seen Black Mesa?

I'll rate your post because of that brutal doom remark tho.

Up to this point it sounded like a dismissal of my original op. Then you go to say you'll rate it because of Doom, as if everything else I said was shit. Sorry if I took it that way, but I'm in a mood. I won't say anymore.

 

[1fps-warlock]

[
Up to this point it sounded like a dismissal of my original op. Then you go to say you'll rate it because of Doom, as if everything else I said was shit. Sorry if I took it that way, but I'm in a mood. I won't say anymore.

No worries, I have nothing against you or anyone else here.
Maybe I sometimes rant to much, but try not to take it personally.
This particular quote is just my wicked way of saying how I like doom and hate the new xcom.
I'm way better with machines than interacting with people, that's why I mostly just lurk in the shadow.

 

[TorontoReign]

[
Up to this point it sounded like a dismissal of my original op. Then you go to say you'll rate it because of Doom, as if everything else I said was shit. Sorry if I took it that way, but I'm in a mood. I won't say anymore.

No worries, I have nothing against you or anyone else here.
Maybe I sometimes rant to much, but try not to take it personally.
This particular quote is just my wicked way of saying how I like doom and hate the new xcom.
I'm way better with machines than interacting with people, that's why I mostly just lurk in the shadow.

Well, going off of that I would say try Xenonauts. It's far superior to NuXcom. It isn't perfect, but I got some enjoyment out of it. The engine is a bit limited but I liked it. Great mods for it too.

 

[naossano]

Didn't tried Xenonauts yet, but the graphics seem great from what i'v seen in trailers. Way better than Wasteland 2 or Jagged Alliance: Flashback.

About mods , i tend to agree with Crni Vuk. Even if i enjoyed some great mods and the facts that most games are modded now, i tend to think that when you get a game, you expect to enjoy the game itself, not the fact it could be modded like everything else. You are buying a game, not a set of modding tools.

Beside that, i currently spend more time looking for mods than actually playing them. There are too many actual games that i want to try first, that it leaves most of the mods untouched after the initial start.

About Beth, they are bashed a billion time a day by the player community. It might make them think it is not a coincidence.