DUPONT TO CUT 3500 JOBS!

Blade Runner said:
My thoughts exactly. Where have all the rebels gone? The ideals of previous generations? Oh well... what do you expect when even Bob Dylan betrays his ideals and starts making commercials? Pfff... The future CAN not be bright this way. :(
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I agree! We should all hide in our bedrooms and refuse to work because we don't agree with the violence inherent in the system!

COME AND SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!

Tchyeah.
 
Kharn said:
I agree! We should all hide in our bedrooms and refuse to work because we don't agree with the violence inherent in the system!

COME AND SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!

Tchyeah.
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I'd rather have you stop commenting on my private life, Kharn, because you obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about. And how would you? You don't know the precise reason why I am where I am (not that far away from the gutter) and doing what I'm doing. Your post is highly offensive actually, and if you would know just a little bit more about my situation, you'd immediately take that stupid argument back. However, knowing how you are and how you usually react to my posts these days, you'll probably feel good about this. Well, good for you. And for your ego. I don't think I have anything to say to you anymore. Thanks.
 
Blade Runner said:
I'd rather have you stop commenting on my private life, Kharn, because you obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about. And how would you? You don't know the precise reason why I am where I am (not that far away from the gutter) and doing what I'm doing. Your post is highly offensive actually, and if you would know just a little bit more about my situation, you'd immediately take that stupid argument back. However, knowing how you are and how you usually react to my posts these days, you'll probably feel good about this. Well, good for you. And for your ego. I don't think I have anything to say to you anymore. Thanks.
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Please tell me what you've been doing here on NMA to be given special consideration. You've insulted people left and right, so please explain why I should give you the consideration not to insult you. Guess what? Your whiny attitude is insulting me as I consider it an affront to humanity.

That said, I'll stop commenting on your bitchy attitude as soon as you stop attacking people and calling them morons for not seeing the light that obviously makes you so happy. Yeesh.
 
hey, does dupont OWE you people f'ing jobs??
those people who got sacked should be thanking dupont for giving them jobs in the first place.
if the irresponsible dupont management were to scuttle that company w/an overinflated payroll, then there'd be a shitload more than 3500 jobs lost --- the problem is, nobody gives a shit about anybody else.
those greedy fuckers all think they're entitled to their overpaid slackass union jobs, until they finally break the company and the whole thing sinks.
I have never met people as lazy as union workers.
 
In the university dorms we weren't allowed to unclog our own toilets (under penalties of fines) because it was a union job. :D
 
GOD DAMN THESE KIDS!

There, I had to say it. Whew, cathartic.

You know, it wasn't too far off in the history of man that someone could have a job for their entire life, become good at it, and become reasonably well off (unless they were in a shit trade). You know, master and apprentice? The same system that roughly still exists for construction workers. This system insures that someone has a concrete trade to work in.

Now? You are expendable. You are shit. You are there for no other purpose to make money. Unions only helped inflate the problem, but in other ways, when there should have been another solution made. University diplomas don't mean a damn thing anymore (and in which, you used to get experience credit while doing such work at a university - or so it used to be), it's all about experience. However, experience doesn't come about automatically, mainly because the past experience of people who were fired from a company that is no longer around often doesn't count towards work experience. See, it can't be verified, and it's not counted since people do "dead company" resume entries all the time as a scam. Therefore, there they go back to the bottom rung in the job market. This same scenario goes for someone who worked at a company too lazy to look up the ex-employee, or is vindictive bout it.

Yes, there definitely is a job market ladder. Unfortunately, most of the rungs are greased.
 
Hideki Hitler said:
You know, it wasn't too far off in the history of man that someone could have a job for their entire life, become good at it, and become reasonably well off (unless they were in a shit trade). You know, master and apprentice? The same system that roughly still exists for construction workers. This system insures that someone has a concrete trade to work in.
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Hey, society developed and became more intertwined and specialized. The logical effect of this is that the master-apprentice concept doesn't work for the most part. Can't do much about it without taking the entire system apart piece by piece
 
Blade, you shouldn't assume Kharn is after you. In my experience, Kharn has always been above that kind of pettiness.

As for DuPont- you would think with the advantages given under Bush's clean skies rules they would be doing better. Oh well.

I agree that unions can really fuck over an economy. The Port of New York used to be one of the most vibrant in the country, but now all the work is done in Jersey. Why? Because the Unions fucked it up and made it too expensive for the shipping companies to do business in New York.

That said, eom, you sound like a stool pigeon for big business. I think one of the reasons why people in Europe have benefits that Americans dream of is because they have strong Unions. Given that labor is so weak politically- only big business and a few other special interests can get the ear of government, than unions are one of the few ways that people can get a decent standard of living. Do you think business gives a shit about your quality of life? Please! Business wants only cheap labor and that's one of the reasons manufacturing has gone overseas to developing countries and we are seeing a similar move of services. A couple weeks ago I called up regarding a credit card bill and was talking with some chick in Manilla!

And what does Bush do- Fast food becomes manufacturing to save his political ass. You do realize that Bush gets his campaign funds from the top 1% of the population? Go figure. He stays in office, the rest of us get fucked.

Very soon you can kiss off the middle class. Keep this up and we probably won't be making enough money to even order from the McDonald's. Wouldn't that be something- food riots because people can't afford the fucking $1 meal!

In the meantime, hold those fries and drink water instead of Coke.
 
ahhh...the halcyon days of yore, when bread was a nickel.....

no, wait --- that was the depression.

edit:

"Very soon you can kiss off the middle class. Keep this up and we probably won't be making enough money to even order from the McDonald's. Wouldn't that be something- food riots because people can't afford the fucking $1 meal! "


yes, yes... and giant ants will have us all working in their underground sugar mines.
well, don't blame me --- I voted for kodos.
 
Would be fun to see, all these folks with giant McDonald fed asses, rioting for their $1 meals.

The thing is that a country like the US makes a big issue of civil liberties and we focus on issues of race. But the truth is that the system does favor those with money vs. those without. If this was the place of opportunity, if the idea is that with hard work you can make it, than the more that middle class hurts the less realistic that becomes.
 
Kharn said:
Hey, society developed and became more intertwined and specialized. The logical effect of this is that the master-apprentice concept doesn't work for the most part. Can't do much about it without taking the entire system apart piece by piece
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Some parts really do need to be taken apart, but that takes money. Money the decision-making rich are more interested in having in their fist.

The master-apprentice concept still lives on, but in different forms. Tech support is one I've noticed.
 
Nor in other fields. Doctors go through an Apprentice period, as do most doctors, accountants, architects and other professions.

That said, one could also say that the greater specialization of the field does lead to greater alienation from the work product as well. This is true even in law. There were firms where attorneys were trained in very narrow areas of law and would be called in for that single part of the contract. Eventually contracts became like assembly lines with each specialist contributing their small part but not having a direct relationship with the final work product.
 
I have been in the tech industry for over five years now. There have been mass hirings and mass layoffs. The trick for me has been keeping tabs on the company I work for. I know when we announce earnings, I watch for news about the company, and I have learned to see the writing on the wall. I quit my last job a week before they went Chapter 11. Many of my friends were jobless for quite a while and I did what I could to help them get one. Currently, everyone that I know that was laid off has a job and is back on their feet. Sure, people have a tough run when they are laid off but it's not the end of there world.
 
welsh said:
That said, eom, you sound like a stool pigeon for big business. I think one of the reasons why people in Europe have benefits that Americans dream of is because they have strong Unions. Given that labor is so weak politically- only big business and a few other special interests can get the ear of government, than unions are one of the few ways that people can get a decent standard of living. Do you think business gives a shit about your quality of life? .
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of course they don't, and I'm not naive enough to want them to.
the business exists to make money, and the people running it are primarily concerned w/THEIR quality of life --- I'm capable of worrying about my own quality of life, thank you.
I'm not looking for some corporate mommy and daddy to adopt me and care for me my whole life.
the decision makers in a business (management) are concerned w/their own job security and paychecks --- they'll happily exploit the 'workers' to this end.
the 'workers' are solely concerned about their own paychecks, and will happily exploit the company (and each other) to this end.
meanwhile, the union organizers are happily exploiting both parties to stuff money in their own pockets.

there's nothing inherently noble about being a brokeass 8-5 clock puncher.
maybe if some of these hard working victims used a little friggin' foresight, they might've socked some money away for this rainy day, instead of maxing their credit cards for a widescreen and $150 sneakers for their 4 kids, just so they could have a "decent standard of living", like they see on tv.
maybe they could've taken some initiative and furthered their training/education instead of just being content to slop at the corporate trough, never thinking that farmer brown might not show up one rainy day.
 
my momma was made redundant a couple of weeks ago. She wasn't part of the union so she says can't get any hep finding a new job. She also hasn't bothered looking for a job and refuses too talk about it, like it will go away if she ignores it.

lol
 
I agree with you on that eom. Both sides will exploit the other as far as they can. And I also agree, a lot of these folks need to think of themselves and have foresight. Invest what you make. It's amazing that if you invest well enough you can get by without working.

When my father passed on he wasn't making that much money, but my mom knew how to invest. Eventually she went back to work, but she didn't have to. It wasn't a great middle class life, but it wasn't lacking either. Invest and learn how to manage your money wisely and don't spend it on useless crap.

That said, there has to be some balance in the relationship between labor and business, if not for the sake of each, but for the society as a whole. These folks are doing what is simply in their best interest, but aggregate the best interest of individuals and you often have a social wide collective bad result.
 
I could be way off, but I wonder why there haven't been personal financial risk sharing instruments or contracts yet. People with jobs with similar wages in industries whose fortunes are negatively correlated with each other could enter into a contract to swap a portion of their salaries for a short period. If one gets fired, they would retain enough income to keep them afloat while they find another job, especially if the counterparty's company benefits from their misfortune. The period would be short and constantly renegotiated to prevent people from abusing the system, but long enough to allow them time to prepare them to get hired elsewhere. Abuses and overall incompetence would render them incapable of renegotiating new contracts, like bad credit. A small team with a legal background and a strong IT infrastructure, charging a minuscule percentage for each contract could make this happen. Of course this wouldn't work for all industries, but might for some. Am I missing something obvious that makes this a stupid idea that no one would ever try?
 
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