Fallout 2 mod EcCo Gameplay Overhaul (new version for RPU)

[J_Fred]

I am an idiot.

The installer automatically adds "Fallout2" to the end of the search once you locate the file. I was selecting C:/BlackIsle/Fallout2, when all it needed was C:/BlackIsle

But it did seem to be case sensitive. It only worked after I found my own error AND changed them to lower case. I"ll be testing the mod today! I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

 

[phobos2077]

New version is up: https://yadi.sk/d/vVmC7G9VWC2w7

v0.5.2:
- adopted to RP v2.3.3
- added russian translation of mod, readme file and installer
- added new *better* buying price formula (not using vanilla price, but uses all proper variables like perks, discounts, etc.)
- swapped .223 Pistol and Mauser back to vanilla places; to make .223 rare, removed it from NCR shop and all common encounters
- changed some weapon distribution in random encounters according to changed weapon stats, added some grenades and throwing axes
- throwing axe uses knife animation: not much worse than club animation, but allows it to be used by more enemies
- two identical 9mm ammo types now split into "ball" and "Armor piercing"
- fixed Mr.Fixit dialog not producing items when using keyboard shortcut (Ctrl+C)


Edit: some good people just opened my eyes to the fact that followers barter skill is used to calculate prices in vanilla... That explains a lot

 

[Kothyxaan]

ok not sure if this has been reported, if it has then apologies, (well with the changes of the .223 pistol back to its original place one of the things i spotted is not a problem; the [Encounter: WILD1_Trader] in the worldmap.txt had one of the guards with a .223 pistol which will now be a 9mm muaser again)
one thing though did you change the laser rifles back to "big gun" holding frame?
if not it nerfs supermutants, any armed with a laser rifle cant use it
anyway, good mod!

 

[phobos2077]

(well with the changes of the .223 pistol back to its original place one of the things i spotted is not a problem; the [Encounter: WILD1_Trader] in the worldmap.txt had one of the guards with a .223 pistol which will now be a 9mm muaser again)

Yep, he will hold Mauser now. It's intentional. Mauser is just a flavor weapon, it will always remain weak.

one thing though did you change the laser rifles back to "big gun" holding frame?
if not it nerfs supermutants, any armed with a laser rifle cant use it

Wow, didn't thought about it.. Thanks for the report. It's a shame though, looking at weapon picture it's more sniper rifle than it's a big gun... Will be fixed in next version.

 

[Kothyxaan]

no problem, glad I could be of help
and yeh i know it does basically look like a sniper rifle, same size, but different weight (sniper rifle weight 8, laser rifle weight 12, according to the proto via F2wedit, lovely tool)
oh and btw you could add a temporary fix by just adding a link to a fixed item proto
anyway, keep up the good work!

 

[phobos2077]

Hotfix for anyone who might be playing this right now: https://yadi.sk/d/YudNGmsMWVSkH

- in all barter price calculations, highest Barter skill in party is now used instead of PC skill only (to conform with vanilla)
- price koefficients were tweaked: merchant skill affect prices in similar scale to vanilla game
- laser rifle hold frame switched back to "big gun", now super mutants can use it again...


Does anyone else think that we should somehow nerf down Sierra Army Depot loot?
(replace plasma rifle with laser rifle, reduce number of rockets, plasma grenades, etc.)

 

[NovaRain]

Does anyone else think that we should somehow nerf down Sierra Army Depot loot?
(replace plasma rifle with laser rifle, reduce number of rockets, plasma grenades, etc.)

I'm with replacing plasma rifle with laser rifle. In vanilla/RP, if you don't encounter the remnants of Master's army and don't kill some merchant guards just for the weapon, the earliest laser rifle you can get should be the one from Melchior in Military Base or gun shops in San Francisco. But by that time/stage it's utterly useless, because you've already has a turbo plasma rifle just after visiting SAD and free upgrade in New Reno.
But I'd keep other not-so-advanced stuff (rockets & grenades) as they are, because basically it's still an intact pre-war military base after all.

 

[phobos2077]

Does anyone else think that we should somehow nerf down Sierra Army Depot loot?
(replace plasma rifle with laser rifle, reduce number of rockets, plasma grenades, etc.)

I'm with replacing plasma rifle with laser rifle. In vanilla/RP, if you don't encounter the remnants of Master's army and don't kill some merchant guards just for the weapon, the earliest laser rifle you can get should be the one from Melchior in Military Base or gun shops in San Francisco. But by that time/stage it's utterly useless, because you've already has a turbo plasma rifle just after visiting SAD and free upgrade in New Reno.
But I'd keep other not-so-advanced stuff (rockets & grenades) as they are, because basically it's still an intact pre-war military base after all.

I always thought rocket launchers were late-game weapons. And here you get your hands on one, not even entering structure itself...
Can you advice more places with overpowered loot? I think someone mentioned earlier some of the new locations from RP having too much loot.


I'm considering possible stuff to be added to the game (only ideas, nothing final yet). Feedback will be appreciated.

1) Add new high-end 14mm SMG. It will cover SMG's line in a late-game period along with G11. Possible difference from G11: maybe little more power, slightly better penetration, less range.
Pros:
- more variety
- 14mm caliber felt incomplete with just one weapon, also there's planty of this ammo - this solves it
Cons:
- yet another small gun
- cannot be logically made different enough from G11

2) Grenade launcher as a way to blow up stuff in mid game (not found rocket launcher yet) for characters with low throwing.
Pros:
- more variety in combat
Cons:
- yet another weapon + ammo type/caliber just for one purpose

3) New assault rifle (or re-chambered 5mm assault rifle) to .223 caliber.
Pros:
- too much .223 ammo left unused after Bozar changes, this solve it
Cons:
- yet another weapon... (however, rechambered "upgrade" for assault rifle may be considered as extending existing weapon)

4) New 9mm SMG as a flavor weapon (like Mauzer) for use in random encounters. Inferior to 10mm SMG.
Pros:
- Can make some early encounters more doable.
- Finally make proper use of 9mm ammo
Cons:
... don't see any

5) Another "stimpak" type, something between healing powder and proper stimpak for early game
Pros:
- as you know, stimpaks are hard to come by in early stages. Healing powders are useless outside of arroyo where you need to heal yourself several times during combat (making yourself blind). This should solve it
Cons:
- yet another stimpak... this will make healing powder obsolete... maybe a better solution would be to somehow add ability to counter the effects of healing powder?

6) An alternative to (5): craftable foods that heal somewhat less then stimpaks. We can craft it from: fish, meat, fruits, etc. Can be separate crafting schematics (ability to cook food much better than any normal "fast food" in wasteland, which don't heal as we know, must be somewhat difficult to achieve, at least you will have to find teacher with recipe)
Pros:
- cheap healing for struggling early game player
Cons:
- new schematic for only one item.. usable only at very early stage of the game. Is worthy?

 

[NovaRain]

I'm with replacing plasma rifle with laser rifle. In vanilla/RP, if you don't encounter the remnants of Master's army and don't kill some merchant guards just for the weapon, the earliest laser rifle you can get should be the one from Melchior in Military Base or gun shops in San Francisco. But by that time/stage it's utterly useless, because you've already has a turbo plasma rifle just after visiting SAD and free upgrade in New Reno.
But I'd keep other not-so-advanced stuff (rockets & grenades) as they are, because basically it's still an intact pre-war military base after all.

I always thought rocket launchers were late-game weapons. And here you get your hands on one, not even entering structure itself...
Can you advice more places with overpowered loot? I think someone mentioned earlier some of the new locations from RP having too much loot.

Like EPA? It has less (number & power) loot than SAD, at least you don't get multiple suits of Combat Armor in a row like SAD. Only heavy weapons are a (yet another) rocket launcher and a M60, but I wouldn't call them overpowered, since you can easily buy them from New Reno Arms if you're a made man.

1) Add new high-end 14mm SMG. It will cover SMG's line in a late-game period along with G11. Possible difference from G11: maybe little more power, slightly better penetration, less range.
Pros:
- more variety
- 14mm caliber felt incomplete with just one weapon, also there's planty of this ammo - this solves it
Cons:
- yet another small gun
- cannot be logically made different enough from G11

I always change Bozar to a heavy 14mm sniper rifle during my playthrough. If it really needs automatic 14mm firearms, I'd go for changing 4.7mm caseless to a subtype of 14mm (maybe incendiary/tracer type?). Now you have two weapons available for 14mm SMG/carbine and don't need worry about overlapping with current G11s. As for Vindicator Minigun, re-chamber it to other caliber, maybe 7.62mm or .223.

3) New assault rifle (or re-chambered 5mm assault rifle) to .223 caliber.
Pros:
- too much .223 ammo left unused after Bozar changes, this solve it
Cons:
- yet another weapon... (however, rechambered "upgrade" for assault rifle may be considered as extending existing weapon)

There are already too many .223 weapons in vanilla comparing to other calibers. Plus there are already two kinds of assault rifles (AK-112 & FAL, XL70E3 is too rare for consideration), I don't think there's really a need for more "assault rifles" (automatic weapons in rifle holding frames). I think it might be better to give player more motivation using AK-112 & FAL, like making more traders sell 5mm and 7.62mm.
I may be biased for 5mm weapons (IMO they are the main military class weapons in Fallout region), but seriously, you can buy nice & powerful combat shotgun in VC, and FAL in VC/Gecko (also adequate 7.62mm in Gecko) or from slavers near VC, but nearly no AK-112 and 5mm after you get your first assault rifle from Modoc (only stealing ammo from NPCs, or killing mercenary raiders)? And we don't get many enemies toting AK-112 & FALs, especially after you solve the raider quest (the encounter got disabled). Unless you want to kill non-hostile NPCs in encounters. I think it's better to revise some trader inventory lists (selling less .223 and more other rifle calibers) and enemy equipments in random encounters, rather than adding a new assault rifle.
If you really want a .223 assault rifle, I'd suggest changing the rare XL70E3 into one.

4) New 9mm SMG as a flavor weapon (like Mauzer) for use in random encounters. Inferior to 10mm SMG.
Pros:
- Can make some early encounters more doable.
- Finally make proper use of 9mm ammo
Cons:
... don't see any

Should be nice if 9mm weapons (pistol & SMG) are accessible in early stage, just like in New Vegas, but I guess it would take an overhaul to make 10mm appear less.
I've been thinking re-chambering 9mm Mauser into an "upgraded" 10mm pistol (10mm Mauser? Right, got the idea after FO3...), something before the all mighty P90c, and modifying two type of 9mm into different subtypes of other calibers (like 7.62mm AP or 12 ga. Slug). My approach is always trying to recycle existing but underrepresented items as much as possible before adding more brand new item protos.

 

[phobos2077]

1) Add new high-end 14mm SMG. It will cover SMG's line in a late-game period along with G11. Possible difference from G11: maybe little more power, slightly better penetration, less range.
Pros:
- more variety
- 14mm caliber felt incomplete with just one weapon, also there's planty of this ammo - this solves it
Cons:
- yet another small gun
- cannot be logically made different enough from G11

I always change Bozar to a heavy 14mm sniper rifle during my playthrough. If it really needs automatic 14mm firearms, I'd go for changing 4.7mm caseless to a subtype of 14mm (maybe incendiary/tracer type?). Now you have two weapons available for 14mm SMG/carbine and don't need worry about overlapping with current G11s. As for Vindicator Minigun, re-chamber it to other caliber, maybe 7.62mm or .223.

I don't like removing vanilla content. Don't see point in removing 4.7mm.

3) New assault rifle (or re-chambered 5mm assault rifle) to .223 caliber.
Pros:
- too much .223 ammo left unused after Bozar changes, this solve it
Cons:
- yet another weapon... (however, rechambered "upgrade" for assault rifle may be considered as extending existing weapon)

There are already too many .223 weapons in vanilla comparing to other calibers. Plus there are already two kinds of assault rifles (AK-112 & FAL, XL70E3 is too rare for consideration), I don't think there's really a need for more "assault rifles" (automatic weapons in rifle holding frames). I think it might be better to give player more motivation using AK-112 & FAL, like making more traders sell 5mm and 7.62mm.
I may be biased for 5mm weapons (IMO they are the main military class weapons in Fallout region), but seriously, you can buy nice & powerful combat shotgun in VC, and FAL in VC/Gecko (also adequate 7.62mm in Gecko) or from slavers near VC, but nearly no AK-112 and 5mm after you get your first assault rifle from Modoc (only stealing ammo from NPCs, or killing mercenary raiders)? And we don't get many enemies toting AK-112 & FALs, especially after you solve the raider quest (the encounter got disabled). Unless you want to kill non-hostile NPCs in encounters. I think it's better to revise some trader inventory lists (selling less .223 and more other rifle calibers) and enemy equipments in random encounters, rather than adding a new assault rifle.
If you really want a .223 assault rifle, I'd suggest changing the rare XL70E3 into one.

Well, that's exactly why I thinking of making this an upgrade for AK-112. Same weapon for different calibers is a common thing in RL (look AK-101, AK-103 etc.). So this is not a new weapon entirely.
Regarding AK-112, AFAIK, it's pretty common weapon in the game currently. There are plenty in SAD and common random encounters. As for motivation - it should be better than vanilla now, especially with AP ammo. 5mm ammo is also plenty throughout the game. Even if not - you can always buy ammo, that one of the main goals of my mod.

4) New 9mm SMG as a flavor weapon (like Mauzer) for use in random encounters. Inferior to 10mm SMG.
Pros:
- Can make some early encounters more doable.
- Finally make proper use of 9mm ammo
Cons:
... don't see any

Should be nice if 9mm weapons (pistol & SMG) are accessible in early stage, just like in New Vegas, but I guess it would take an overhaul to make 10mm appear less.
I've been thinking re-chambering 9mm Mauser into an "upgraded" 10mm pistol (10mm Mauser? Right, got the idea after FO3...), something before the all mighty P90c, and modifying two type of 9mm into different subtypes of other calibers (like 7.62mm AP or 12 ga. Slug).

Again, I don't see point in removing vanilla content. I was thinking about Mauser and other possible 9mm weapons as a flavor weapon used by some of the bandits/traders/etc. And while we have two 9mm ammo types, why not use it in full extent?

My approach is always trying to recycle existing but underrepresented items as much as possible before adding more brand new item protos

This is my approach exactly. That is why I'm hesitating.

 

[NovaRain]

Again, I don't see point in removing vanilla content. I was thinking about Mauser and other possible 9mm weapons as a flavor weapon used by some of the bandits/traders/etc. And while we have two 9mm ammo types, why not use it in full extent?

Because it would need a new 9mm SMG with new proto file, re-chambering weapons & merging one ammo to a subtype of other calibers don't need any new proto, only edited current three protos.
Guess we're taking very different approaches on the 9mm issue, but I do agree my approach would reduce the item variety (more weapons using the same ammo).

 

[teukros]

Does anyone else think that we should somehow nerf down Sierra Army Depot loot?
(replace plasma rifle with laser rifle, reduce number of rockets, plasma grenades, etc.)

What NovaRain said.

Add new high-end 14mm SMG

Isn't 14 mm basically the same thing as .50 caliber? I really can't wrap my head around a .50 cal SMG. It would have to be as long as a rifle and the magazine would hold, what, four rounds? And the recoil would be hell.

Maybe a Browning .50 cal modified to fire 14 mm ammo? But you would need to be REALLY strong to wield that weapon. Big Gun, minimum Strength of 10.

 

[lujo]

Both the SAD and the EPA are kind of over the top in terms of loot. SAD egregiously so, EPA somwhat less but still ridiculous. There's the old problem of all that loot becoming readily available through skill checks for no material investment - which then means you've invested in non-combat stuff and that got you a crapload of everything there is to get in terms of combat...

And since you can sell all that loot it also means that a few checks can get you several trunk + big party inventories + high str and all the perks your own inventories worth of money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for stuff being available to non-combat characters, by all means, but there's a serious design flaw if you can get all that more easily by making a few checks than fighting for it. If you invest a ton of resources (ammo, stims, chems) into getting a ton of resources - that would make sense, but this is just silly.

 

[phobos2077]

Add new high-end 14mm SMG

Isn't 14 mm basically the same thing as .50 caliber? I really can't wrap my head around a .50 cal SMG. It would have to be as long as a rifle and the magazine would hold, what, four rounds? And the recoil would be hell.

Maybe a Browning .50 cal modified to fire 14 mm ammo? But you would need to be REALLY strong to wield that weapon. Big Gun, minimum Strength of 10.

No, It's not. .50 caliber rounds are 12.7x99mm, and because 14mm are used in pistol they will be shorter. There is pistol-length .50 caliber in RL, but 14mm is clearly something different (and not really existing).
If you think about realism, it will probably be very hard to control recoil in such monstrosity with little weight

 

[J_Fred]

Why not throw some moving sentry bots outside of SAD, like in the toxic caves? Give them plenty of 5mm AP (they use the Avenger Minigun as their base weapon, IIRC), and it will be plenty tough without high level equipment.

Just a though... you could still make it so the best weapon is the Laser Rifle.

 

[memetics]

Why not throw some moving sentry bots outside of SAD, like in the toxic caves? Give them plenty of 5mm AP (they use the Avenger Minigun as their base weapon, IIRC), and it will be plenty tough without high level equipment.

Some combination of this and reducing the amount of loot at both SAD and EPA would seem to be a good overall solution. Still, if the SAD and EPA need to be nerfed, maybe one could convince killap / lujo to address these issues in the base RP instead of having to do it through this mod? Just a thought. (-:

-m

 

[lujo]

We've been discussing it the last few days, and I'm working on the crafter dialogues (tweaking them as a semi-native english speaker to make them blend in better), and I've also tested the early crafting progression and given some feedback. Lot's of tweaks on their way here ^^

phobos also included my game flow tweaks, and they're mostly working great as far as I can tell, so anyone using the mod in the next version can also test them for the regular RP. As far as i can tell I need to adjust the raider camp map a tiny bit, and I need a stronger Abbey hook than the very subtle one I put down

And one more thing - the radiation on stimpaks is a fine annoyance. I still have to see what happens if I get even more radiated, but I'm not using rad away as paper money any more and I'm actually downing rad-x in tough fights (and since I'm using party member controll in combat this means I need more resources as I have more party members to handle, lol). I can't say I'm swimming in money any more. Also, radiation sickness seems to drain your strenght (and I got sick at about over 100 rads which I got from a tough fight). To be honest I'm getting a feeling this is how it was supposed to be in vanilla - you can get radiated anywhere so there needs to be no special radiation zones. And you still get to burn stims when you need them. Funny thing is, I totaly forgot about it untill I was suddenly glowing in the dark after a tough fight.

The game and the economy makes a lot more sense when rad-away and rad-x are not oodles of money but something you'd pay through your nose for. Wow.

And phobos has made tweaks to EPA (not sure abot SAD), we'll see how they work out.

Also, the random highwaymen with grenades actually throwing grenades is seriously tough s**t. If I wasn't using combat controll I would've been in deep trouble, and what's great is that even with combat controll on all party members I still had to play it smart against them ^^


EDIT: I just looked up the exact stats on how radiation works in Fallout 2. SCARY SHIT. I think the game was ment to have A LOT OF IT, and it sure as hell puts a stop on indiscriminatley spamming anything that irradiates you. If anyone's looking to put a stop to stimpak, or any chem abuse, make it radiate the player. Psycho lets you go god mode in any fight? You'd think twice if it also hit you with 200 rads. fun to be had ^^ Also, I think there should be no way to easily get it off (like one click for free from a doctor), it's too good of a scare/balancing factor to let it slide easily.

 

[phobos2077]

New version is up: https://yadi.sk/d/wG3wFidQZPzAU

Changelog:

v0.6:
> Economy:
- in all barter price calculations, highest Barter skill in party is now used instead of PC skill only (to conform with vanilla)
- price koefficients were tweaked: merchant skill affect prices in similar scale to vanilla game
- one of the trappers in Klamath can now teach you gecko skinning (not free) and leather jacket crafting
- Loot slightly reduced in S.A.D
- Loot slightly reduced in Hubologist Stash
- EPA: added skill-check on two doors leading to locker rooms on security level

> Weapons:
- laser rifle hold frame switched back to "big gun", now super mutants can use it again...
- "LE" BB Gun nerfed a bit.. it's rare but was making many other weapons absolete because of accuracy, 4AP cost and enourmous magazine size
- added 40mm grenade launcher (2 types) with 2 types of grenades
- added 9mm SMG for flavor (and to use 9mm ammo)
- two new craftable ammo types: 14mm JHP and 40mm Incendiary grenade
- rechamber XL70E3 to .223 ammo, now it's a good light alternative to Light Support Weapon; added it to more places in game (still very rare)

> Gameflow:
- integrated Lujo Gameflow Fixes mod (experimental version): http://www.nma-fallout.com/showthre...ession-experience-and-small-tweak-suggestions
- Flick and Tubby in Den are now protected better and their on-death loot is reduced
- Metzger gang made tougher
- lowered several EXP rewards in NCR-Vault13 area
- redesigned Raiders hideout: secret entrance is more challenging now, while front entrance more straightforward (but still features tough fight)

> Misc:
- included expanded version of Party Orders addon (with Switch Ammo Type feature)
- all modified game scripts were "re-modified" and recompiled against latest RP source files
- craftable food (new teacher in Den)
- crafting menu improvements: changed order of items, more items per page, items split into categories for easier navigation (when there are many available)
- rearranged crafting teachers (3 new teachers added)
- text corrections in changed dialogs for better english
- improved "destroy weapon on death" by excluding rare and unique weapons (they will never be destroyed)
- added more Ropes and Spears to Maida, added free Junk in Den
- added more grenades to NPCs in random encounters
- fixed NPCs not being able to use Throwing Axes and Grenades in several random encounters
- simplified trap assembling: now you need to place them in hands and use them on the chosen one (or press Ctrl+1)

 

[J_Fred]

Awesome.

Lujo, I agree with you on the radiation. I've always thought the toxic caves should give a good bit of radiation, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

The one part in FO1 that excelled over FO2 was The Glow. If that magic could be recreated in FO2, it would have been perfect. As it stands, the EPA, SAD and even the Toxic Caves are decent imitations, but not quite at "The Glow" level.

Maybe radiation could be added to a few places where it makes sense? (Gecko reactor, EPA in some levels, and the Toxic caves come to mind).


Just a thought. I still haven't played through your mod yet Lujo (my apologies), but I've been fond of your ideas since day 1.

 

[lujo]

^ Well for now you can really have a blast with phobos's mod, it has all my fixes and then some (been feedbacking on this thing a lot). As for radiation, phobos has mentioned it's an interesting idea to add radiation in places, for example whole Gecko untill you fix the reactor and stuff.

Before anything else, the other places which come to mind as other sorta possible locations for radiation from the story perspective would be toxic caves (allthough that wouldn't make sense as Smiley would be dead as a dodo), broken hills mines (and mutants working in them is kinda a plot point so it's quite logical maybe), some part of EPA (big maybe), and other than that I'm not too sure there is any place which would "make sense".

Other than that, a radiated area is a huge hassle - your companions get radiated, anything that makes time pass (resting, crafting, possibly even conversations) becomes a hazard that's easy to forget about and so on. I wouldn't mind testing a build with Gecko and BH mines radiating you just to see what it's like, though.

However, I'm quite happy with radiating steampaks and potentially other ways to radiate yourself as a tradeoff. The effect of rad-aways and rad-x being relevant drugs does wonders for the economy.

EDIT: Also, i've noticed a small bug where I think Marcus and Lenny get radiated and they should be more resistent to it.



One thing I'd seriously consider if it were in my power is more monsters/enemies with radiating attacks. Bullets with some ammount of radiation on rogue ghouls in the VC area? Dudes from new reno secretly buying such ammo from broken hills? Would be a nice way to make ammo which doesn't make the player stronger (as radiation does nothing to enemies), and which you don't even want to loot XD The only people handling it would be ghouls, mutants and possibly Mordino thugs (as mordino's got a chemist who can make Rad-Away). It'd also explain why Salvtore's haven't taken them out, they could, but they'd be glowing in the dark afterwards XD

Oh god, now I want to help someone make an addon for this with this so bad. Phobos, please tell me you're up for it XD You allready added a ghoul ammo crafter, this sorta even ties in with the lore and gives a nice backdrop for the ghoul hunting repeatable missions XD