Fallout 2 mod EcCo Gameplay Overhaul (new version for RPU)

[phobos2077]

So is your mod (the ammo damage parts of anyway) based on YAAM?

Should YAAM be installed first, and then your mod on top of it?

No. YAAM consists of two parts - engine changes (integrated into sfall) and ammo stat changes. My mod works with YAAM damage formula (it works the same, just ammo and armor stats are different).

About Bozar sound.. I thought many times about it, but found myself happy with current sound (it's loud enough for my taste). However if you could find the appropriate alternative (in any format, I can convert it), I can add it as installer option.

Edit: At this state I think I've done most of what I had planned to do with this mod. I now continue my playthrough (started 3 years ago) and balance weapons, fix bugs, etc. Only thing I'm considering is to do something with selling prices, like adding optional 1/2 and 1/1 ratios to installer (this requires some carefull work, need to modify every single item). Someone suggested that on very high barter skill, you should be able to strip most merchants from their stuff bying cheap and selling high. This will make it possible, and also possible to install Combat without Economy.

 

[teukros]

Hmm. I've got 2.12b and WR 2.2. I found a savegame file where Buffy is on the San Fran tanker. I also have F2SE (installed a couple of years ago) but F2SE doesn't shed any light on what sound the Bozar uses (at least not that I could see). I had Buffy shoot up the tanker and I listened to the Bozar sound. I found the codec which allows me to listen to .ACM files with WinAmp, and I listened to alll of the sounds in the \data\sound\sfx folder, I didn't hear anything which (I thought) sounded like the Bozar sound... WR 2.2 does include a couple of sounds which are from F1 but it seems that they were only used for certain pistols (apparently the RP used to use these same sounds for the respective weapons). Now am I just confused? Did WR 2.2 use the same sound for the Bozar that you are using in your mod? If that is the case then I am happy with it. If not I am even more confused than I thought I was...

 

[phobos2077]

Now am I just confused? Did WR 2.2 use the same sound for the Bozar that you are using in your mod? If that is the case then I am happy with it. If not I am even more confused than I thought I was...

I use default sniper rifle sound for Bozar AMR. It sounds like a good 7.62mm rifle...

Can anyone comment on following ideas I'm considering:
1) Mr. Fixit dialog will open when using repair skill on any generic workbench, instead of doing crafting where you stand. Additional workbenches will be added to early cities where there are none of them, because Mr. Fixit is primarily useful for early characters. I will try to add more schematics if I can think of any (it looks like original developer already added everything that could possibly work in fallout world).
2) It is possible to make "unlockable" schematics with Mr. Fixit. I'm thinking of using some of the reserved global variables and adding dialogue options to some NPC's, who will teach you to craft different types of items for money. Unknown schematics will not show up in available list at all.
3) Moving Bozar away from .223 created surplus of this type of ammo. Maybe make XL70E (that bluish rare 5mm rifle) use .223 ammo, that will allow to boost it's stats, making it third viable alternative assault rifle (comparable in damage with FN FAL, but for more common .223 ammo).
4) Move .223 Sniper Rifle to 7.62mm caliber. It will make it even more usable mid-game (7.62 offers more penetration). And it's logical: .223 bullet carries much less energy than 7.62 in RL, and we don't need another weak rifle (we have Scoped Hunting Rifle for that). Will add more 7.62 ammo to traders.

 

[Nevill]

Can anyone comment on following ideas I'm considering:
1) Mr. Fixit dialog will open when using repair skill on any generic workbench, instead of doing crafting where you stand. Additional workbenches will be added to early cities where there are none of them, because Mr. Fixit is primarily useful for early characters. I will try to add more schematics if I can think of any (it looks like original developer already added everything that could possibly work in fallout world).

I am fine without restricting crafting to the cities. Though if you feel the need to do so for balancing purposes, or for role-playing ones, I would not feel too strong about it.

2) It is possible to make "unlockable" schematics with Mr. Fixit. I'm thinking of using some of the reserved global variables and adding dialogue options to some NPC's, who will teach you to craft different types of items for money. Unknown schematics will not show up in available list at all.

That would have been great. The crafting aspect of the game is underused.

3) Moving Bozar away from .223 created surplus of this type of ammo. Maybe make XL70E (that bluish rare 5mm rifle) use .223 ammo, that will allow to boost it's stats, making it third viable alternative assault rifle (comparable in damage with FN FAL, but for more common .223 ammo).

That I had to google XL70E to remember what it does suggests that it is definitely in need of a buff.

No opinion on the Sniper Rifle.

 

[phobos2077]

Let's trade, bitch!



Looks like I got full control over both buying and SELLING prices! Independently! I will test it more, but it looks stable. If this works out, my crazy wholesale trader idea will not be neccesary. Player will be able to trade in price differences (in theory), if you hook them up to merchant barter skill (they are pretty diverse, in general - at later cities trader are more skilled).

Ideas about selling price formula?

I also spent several hours experimenting with this whole Workbench Crafting idea... I'll probably ditch it, because design of the maps is just not compatible with it. Also crafting where you stand is not so very illogical if you think it through... Overriding Look At action is what bugs me.

Edit: made Mr. Fixit more hi-res friendly:

 

[teukros]

I use default sniper rifle sound for Bozar AMR. It sounds like a good 7.62mm rifle...

Sorry to keep driving you crazy with this, but I edited one of my save games so that Buffy had both the FN FAL (which I assume is what you were referring to) and the Bozar. The Bozar sound in RP 2.12b plus WR 2.2 is DEFINITELY a different sound. The FN FAL sound is pretty weak imo...

 

[phobos2077]

I use default sniper rifle sound for Bozar AMR. It sounds like a good 7.62mm rifle...

Sorry to keep driving you crazy with this, but I edited one of my save games so that Buffy had both the FN FAL (which I assume is what you were referring to) and the Bozar. The Bozar sound in RP 2.12b plus WR 2.2 is DEFINITELY a different sound. The FN FAL sound is pretty weak imo...

No, I meant Sniper rifle/Hunting rifle sound, it's different.

 

[teukros]

Ahh! Yes, that sounds like it.

I was thrown off because with that mod the sniper rifle is using .223 ammo.

Thanks!


And now for something completely different...


I've been thinking about the gauss weapons. Everybody's favorite AP weapons to use against the Big Bad. But does it make sense that they should be "Small Guns"? The operating principles of a gauss weapon (using magnetic fields to accelerate a tiny particle of magnetized metal to ludicrous speed) would be very different from the principles of, say, an M-16. Field stripping a gauss weapon (if that would even be possible) would also be a completely different experience. And I suspect that the actual use of a gauss weapon in combat would also be different. Maybe they have more in common with Energy Weapons than they do with Small Guns and should be categorized as such.

 

[phobos2077]

So after a lot of work, I've rewritten barter script from scratch. New formulas and new features.

Here is a new INI:

Spoiler

[SELL]
; selling price formula:
; price = base * Bias
; * (1 + DudeSkillCoef*dude_barter) // dude skill multiplier
; * (1 + MerchantSkillCoef*merchant_barter) // merchant skill multiplier
; * (1 + DudeCharismaCoef*dude_charisma) // dude charisma multiplier
; * (1 + TownRepCoef*town_rep) // town rep multiplier
; * (1 + PerkCoef*master_trader); // perk multiplier
;
; where "base" is base item price (set in prototypes),
; "price" is price you will see in game,
; "dude_barter" and "charisma_barter" are the barter skill levels in %s (0..300),
; "dude_charisma" is player charisma (1..10),
; "town_rep" is reputation in current town (-30..+30; 30 is "vilified" and 30 is "idolized"),
; "master_trader" is Master Trader perk (0..1)
;
; NOTE: with this formula, all variables (skills, reputation, etc.) affect final price independently.
; It means that, if all other variables are constant, given variable will always affect final price in the same way
; (eg. one charisma point will always add 10% or Master Trader perk will always add 25%)
;
; NOTE: What if you want (for example) charisma multiplier to change from 0.6 to 1.5 (Coef = 0.1, Bias = 0.2):
; - 0.5 is your lowered bias for charisma multiplier (because minimum charisma is 1)
; - multiply Bias with this lowered bias (Bias = 0.2 * 0.5 = 0.1)
; - divide DudeCharismaCoef by this lowered bias (DudeCharismaCoef = 0.1 / 0.5 = 0.2)
; apply above steps for each multiplier

; base multiplier
Bias=1.0
; player skill coefficient
DudeSkillCoef=0.01
; merchant skill coefficient
MerchantSkillCoef=-0.0075
; player charisma coefficient
DudeCharismaCoef=0.05
; town reputation coefficient
TownRepCoef=0
; Master Trader perk coefficient
PerkCoef=0.10

; max selling price cap, relative to base prices
MaxPriceCoef=5.0


[BUY]
; select desired formula for buying price calculation (number)
; 0:
; price = vanilla_price;
; where "vanilla_price" is item buy price as in vanilla game;
;
; 1: (vanilla price with fix for low barter)
; price = {dude_barter >= 50, vanilla_price}
; {dude_barter < 50, vanilla_price * (1 + DudeSkillCoef*dude_barter))
; NOTE: use negative value for DudeSkillCoef!
;
; 2: (same formula as selling price, see above and use appropriate signs for coefficients)
;
; NOTE: if you use formula 2, scripted discounts or penalties in stores will not work! You have been warned!
;
; NOTE: vanilla prices are affected by following variables (experimental observation, exact formula is unknown to me):
; - dude barter skill (only when barter >= 50, on lower skill it makes no difference, formula 1 designed to fix this)
; - merchant barter skill
; - dude charisma
; - merchant charisma
; - dude "Master Trader" perk (25% discount)
; - barter mod set in scripts
;
Formula=1

; base multiplier
Bias=2.0
; player skill coefficient
DudeSkillCoef=-0.01666
; merchant skill coefficient
MerchantSkillCoef=0.01
; player charisma coefficient
DudeCharismaCoef=-0.1
; town reputation coefficient
TownRepCoef=0
; Master Trader perk coefficient
PerkCoef=-0.25

; minimum price cap, relative to selling price (set 1 to prevent exploiting by buying cheaper than selling)
MinPriceCoef=1.0

[GENERAL]
MaxPID=611
MaxTown=25

[TOWNDEMAND]
;
; format:
; TOWN_ID=ITEM1_PID*MULT1|ITEM2_PID*MULT2|.... (repeat)
; lines limited to 255 symbols
; example (makes Gecko Pelts cost twice in Klamath):
; 2=276*2.00|277*2.00
;
;
; Den: stimpacks cost twice
1=40*2.0|610*5.125||15*0.25|
; Klamath: Gecko Pelts cost twice
2=276*2.00|277*2.00

Using the TOWNDEMAND section, we can simulate different demand for certain products in different towns (for example, jet should be cheaper than most places).

Edit: this is how I spent my day... this graph shows how new price mod function affects vanilla price (I use vanilla price, which already affected by many things, including barter skill, and multiply it with arctangent function from barter skill):
(blue - vanilla price (barter skill) function, red - new price (barter skill) )
NOTE: this is just example graph, installer version will include better coefficients.
It's not perfect (notice strange "hillock" near 50 - it's because for some strange reason game engine does not change prices when you improve your skill from 0 to 50), but it works. The point is: at lower barter, especially from 50 to 120, prices are affected much higher by skill, but at higher skill they "slow down" to prevent exploits.
By experiments, I figured some playable coefficients for sell and buy price functions. Why this function is better then the old one? (vanilla price with multipliers)
1) it goes down faster at start and slower near the end, while the old one created some kind of parable (x^2), which worked the other way around
2) you can control the form of the line with two variables (I suggest playing in Mathcad or some online plotter)

There are total of 4 different functions to choose from, one of them not based on vanilla price, and thus fully controlable by coefficients.

Edit: I was mistaken about Bozar creating surplus of .223 ammo. Forgot about LSW which I buffed considerably to use it where Bozar would be used in vanilla game.

I've been thinking about the gauss weapons. Everybody's favorite AP weapons to use against the Big Bad. But does it make sense that they should be "Small Guns"? The operating principles of a gauss weapon (using magnetic fields to accelerate a tiny particle of magnetized metal to ludicrous speed) would be very different from the principles of, say, an M-16. Field stripping a gauss weapon (if that would even be possible) would also be a completely different experience. And I suspect that the actual use of a gauss weapon in combat would also be different. Maybe they have more in common with Energy Weapons than they do with Small Guns and should be categorized as such.

I'm afraid that's not possible. Energy weapon skill is used when weapon has one of energy damage types, and it's normal damage for gauss rifles. You can only choose Big/Small guns skill for normal weapons. I suppose Big Guns doesn't fit at all

 

[Effektor]

Thanks for your mod . It is really nice - makes me think twice.

But MrFixit is almost useless on early stages for me, because I don`t have free points to invest in "not-so-useful" skills.
Let me explain.
Sharpened Spear is easy to "craft" in Arroyo with help of Mynoc.
Molotov Cocktail is nice, but how can I get 40 in Traps early? Sacrifice Small guns, Speech? No way.
Dynamite... what for? Also 80 in Traps are insanely high. Only for alternative walkthrough, I suppose.
Leather Jacket. Almost only one thing easy for early craft, but I can buy it in Klamath even before rat caves. Looting is fun, you know
Leather Armor and Leather Armor MK2. Too high Repair. Also on the way to Vault City you can get good armor for free!
Healing Powder can be useful, but I prefer Doctor skill (with free XP 3 times/day).
Antidote. Used it 1-2 times/year
By the way, Drugs and Lockpicks are really nice but not for early stages, sadly, because of their high skill requirements.

May I suggest to rebalance MrFixit?
How about bullet craft? Maybe from knives and spears poor Chosen One can craft some bullets depending on Science, Repair and type of weapon?

 

[phobos2077]

Thanks for your mod . It is really nice - makes me think twice.

But MrFixit is almost useless on early stages for me, because I don`t have free points to invest in "not-so-useful" skills.
Let me explain.
Sharpened Spear is easy to "craft" in Arroyo with help of Mynoc.
Molotov Cocktail is nice, but how can I get 40 in Traps early? Sacrifice Small guns, Speech? No way.
Dynamite... what for? Also 80 in Traps are insanely high. Only for alternative walkthrough, I suppose.
Leather Jacket. Almost only one thing easy for early craft, but I can buy it in Klamath even before rat caves. Looting is fun, you know
Leather Armor and Leather Armor MK2. Too high Repair. Also on the way to Vault City you can get good armor for free!
Healing Powder can be useful, but I prefer Doctor skill (with free XP 3 times/day).
Antidote. Used it 1-2 times/year
By the way, Drugs and Lockpicks are really nice but not for early stages, sadly, because of their high skill requirements.

May I suggest to rebalance MrFixit?
How about bullet craft? Maybe from knives and spears poor Chosen One can craft some bullets depending on Science, Repair and type of weapon?

I'm all open for suggestions on crafting rebalance. I plan to expand it in next major version. I totally agree with you, but need more suggestions, and time to consider it.
Can you also suggest NPCs who will teach you crafting? (I'm thinking about groups of items, instead of learning each item individually; it's easier but adds enough exploration element).

I've added new major update 0.4 to first post with new economy system (many things became easier now).

 

[Nevill]

The skill requirements are fine (well, maybe not the ones for a dynamite). You are not supposed to do everything at once, and it provides a reason to tag one of the less useful skills.

I would love to craft grenades with a high Traps skill. There is never enough grenades, and throwing weapons are underused. Sadly, I have no idea what a schematics for one would be (the components need to be common enough to make it a worthwhile investment of skill points).

Can you also suggest NPCs who will teach you crafting?

Algernon in New Reno?
Look for mechanics/technicians - Skeeter in Gecko, Smitty in Den, etc.

 

[teukros]

I've been thinking about the gauss weapons. Everybody's favorite AP weapons to use against the Big Bad. But does it make sense that they should be "Small Guns"? The operating principles of a gauss weapon (using magnetic fields to accelerate a tiny particle of magnetized metal to ludicrous speed) would be very different from the principles of, say, an M-16. Field stripping a gauss weapon (if that would even be possible) would also be a completely different experience. And I suspect that the actual use of a gauss weapon in combat would also be different. Maybe they have more in common with Energy Weapons than they do with Small Guns and should be categorized as such.

I'm afraid that's not possible. Energy weapon skill is used when weapon has one of energy damage types, and it's normal damage for gauss rifles. You can only choose Big/Small guns skill for normal weapons. I suppose Big Guns doesn't fit at all

Ooops. I didn't know that. That darned Reality.

Very interesting work with the economy mod btw

Another idea with no conception of whether it is possible or not: Gambling should probably be nerfed somehow. When I bother to invest in gambling (enough to raise it to about 130) and head over to Ascorti's Ace (usually just before heading to San Fran), I walk over to a craps table, initiate the gambling dialogue, put a battery on the '5' key, walk away, have dinner, watch a movie, come back and count my millions (I mean, I doubt Ascorti's Ace would even have that much money....) - maybe at the very least the script should be changed so that playing one game of craps requires the pressing of different keys... make it more laborious and time-wasting for the player in other words....

 

[Nevill]

A hard limit to what you can win at a table in a day or two should be easy to implement. Similarly to how it is done with slot machines.

 

[phobos2077]

Algernon in New Reno?
Look for mechanics/technicians - Skeeter in Gecko, Smitty in Den, etc.

Thanks for the tip!

I think what we need for crafting is several new component items (like powder for bullets) and a place to buy them.

A hard limit to what you can win at a table in a day or two should be easy to implement. Similarly to how it is done with slot machines.

Never bothered raising Gambling skill That's one skill I'm NOT planning to improve.

Can someone list all places where you can gamble indefinetly? I'll look into it when RP sources are out. It's hard doing changes to scripts right now...

 

[Effektor]

The skill requirements are fine (well, maybe not the ones for a dynamite). You are not supposed to do everything at once, and it provides a reason to tag one of the less useful skills.

I would love to craft grenades with a high Traps skill. There is never enough grenades, and throwing weapons are underused. Sadly, I have no idea what a schematics for one would be (the components need to be common enough to make it a worthwhile investment of skill points).

I tried to say that skill requirements for explosives and armor are too high for early stages, and, yes, for mid-game they are just fine. But in mid-game you will find better armor, so no need in MrFixit for now (IMHO, of course).
And some recipes almost useless, like Sharpened Spear or Dynamite.

My suggestion for grenade`s component is a few packs of similar type of bullets, let`s say about 12 shotgun shells for frag grenade. Nice exchange for Throwing-type character.

phobos2077, about groups of items, may be Mynoc (Arroyo) could teach you to craft Sharpened Spear from Spear instead of crafting it for you (and Combat Knife from Knife and Throwing Knife from Knife for example)? No waste of rare Flint. Also somebody in Klamath could teach leather craft, I don`t know, maybe John Sullivan?

 

[Nevill]

I think what we need for crafting is several new component items (like powder for bullets) and a place to buy them.

I like the minimalistic approach of Effektor when you do not introduce new items just for the sake of crafting. Shotgun cells for a frag grenade, energy cells for plasma grenades, something else (micro fusion cells?) for EMP grenades. Maybe use a Molotov cocktail as a part of schematics?

Why would you ever need to craft bullets?

 

[Effektor]

Why would you ever need to craft bullets?

Lack of money due to recent economic cris... uhh... rebalance

 

[phobos2077]

I think what we need for crafting is several new component items (like powder for bullets) and a place to buy them.

I like the minimalistic approach of Effektor when you do not introduce new items just for the sake of crafting. Shotgun cells for a frag grenade, energy cells for plasma grenades, something else (micro fusion cells?) for EMP grenades. Maybe use a Molotov cocktail as a part of schematics?

Manufacturing military-grade armament from nothing seems to illogical to me...
I'm thinking about introducing new items (not just ingredients, but craftable stuff):
- home-made frag grenade (less damage than normal grenade): dynamite+junk = 4-6 grenades
- anti-burn skin drug (fire and plasma damage resistance, but poisonous): super stimpack + poison

 

[Effektor]

Manufacturing military-grade armament from nothing seems to illogical to me...
I'm thinking about introducing new items (not just ingredients, but craftable stuff):
- home-made frag grenade (less damage than normal grenade): dynamite+junk = 4-6 grenades
- anti-burn skin drug (fire and plasma damage resistance, but poisonous): super stimpack + poison

Electronic Lockpick looks like military-grade too. I do not vote against new items though, I just hope they will not be in conflict with other RP-compatible mods (especially my lovely Miria ).

On the other side maybe high-tech craft will be available for workbench user only, and outdoor craft will be hand-made class items only?
For example, vanilla grenades, electronic lockpicks -> workbench, Leather Armor, hand-made grenade -> outdoor.

Now about junk. As for me it is really rare resource, but again shotgun shells are not.