Wintermind
Vault Senior Citizen
Or a perk, too. I dunno if it's possible, but you could have a each throwing weapon have a skill level, and based on how far distant you are from that you get a bonus/penalty to damage with those weapons.
Fallout 2 mod EcCo Gameplay Overhaul (new version for RPU)
- Thread starter phobos2077
- Start date
Vault Senior Citizen
Thanks for your input. Do you have suggestion to what weapon should we swap Bozar or leave it as in vanilla game? (can get one in toxic caves and on NCR trader guards just at the entrance)Nevill said:
Maybe also decrease damage a little (it's still requires extra AP to shoot), it should be top sniper rifle but not uber-weapon...
As for the duplet mode, it's questionable (make early shotguns more usable - vs - sound OR death animation inconsistency). Maybe I'll make it optional as well as Mr. Fixit mod.
Yes. I'm not sure on this though. Your ideas/thoughts on this matter would be appreciated.Nevill said:
@ Wintermind,
I don't intend to include new perks in game yet (maybe in next versions). Throwing skill is already fixed, IMO, with increased damage of grenades and knifes. But it is an interesting idea that you can deal more damage throwing spear when you excel in throwing (thus, making spears and other such weapon more usable). I'll think about it.
As for the lighter required to use molotovs, I like the idea too. Just need to make sure lighters are available in early game somewhere. And check if it's possible to do via scripting.
EDIT: yes! Looks like I've managed to fix duplet mode. Added new sound scheme for double-barrels and added check in hs_deathanim2 that changes death animation depending on weapon used.
Hi there !
I love and really apriciate your work on this mod Phobos !
I loved magnus's mod & Haenlomal also made a good mod called YAAM.
Nirran, Josan12 & Cubik2k also helped me to alter the way combat felt like in fallout.
(I just gave input or tested it but they did all the real work, Shoutout to you guys ! love yall)
It made more playstyles viable as well as making combat more tactical due to having to use the different types of ammo like Ap or jhp.
The increased grenade damage was a game changer for me, not only making me have to change the way i progressed skill wise because it was actually worth to invest into the throwing skill itself but also being able to change the whole tide of a battle.
A single well placed plasma grenade could be devastating, not to mention clearing out a room.
Double item weight.
Making what to bring along or leave behind more important, this also caused to not have insane amounts of money or wealth too soon.
Having stims not restore health instantly but over the course of 3 turns making me have to take cover when i got hurt, covering behind objects peaking out taking shots.
Weapon drop.
- weapons drop on death.
- weapons drop on a K.O . (unconsious)
- weapons drop on cripple limb/s.
This made fights more diverse, unpredictable and random, critters picking up fallen down weapons.
Cubik tweaked some melee attacks,
- swing attack type == random ammount of additional damage (from 0 to 3) to initial base damage of weapon (for min and max weapons damage)
- thrust attack type == critters armors Stats (damage threshold and resistance) will be divided by 2 (it will be good against armored targets)
i can go on and on with tweaks and alteration they made, all i can say that in the end with everything installed it totally overhauled the feel of fallout 2- it expanded and made the combat richer and deeper giving more freedom as to what type of char you can roleplay.
I truly hope with the final version of the RP now being released we can make a final combat/economy/survival mod to put the final polish on this gem. (though killap and the rest of the crew actually already did this of course but you know what i mean)
i will try to look up if the links or files i received from them still work or i still have em- cause its been so long.
I dont know which of them guys are still active on the forum but this release must draw them back eventually.... hehe
It did it to me as well....
nirran still has a site with some stuff on it.
www.nirran.com/Fallout2Scripts.php
I love and really apriciate your work on this mod Phobos !
I loved magnus's mod & Haenlomal also made a good mod called YAAM.
Nirran, Josan12 & Cubik2k also helped me to alter the way combat felt like in fallout.
(I just gave input or tested it but they did all the real work, Shoutout to you guys ! love yall)
It made more playstyles viable as well as making combat more tactical due to having to use the different types of ammo like Ap or jhp.
The increased grenade damage was a game changer for me, not only making me have to change the way i progressed skill wise because it was actually worth to invest into the throwing skill itself but also being able to change the whole tide of a battle.
A single well placed plasma grenade could be devastating, not to mention clearing out a room.
Double item weight.
Making what to bring along or leave behind more important, this also caused to not have insane amounts of money or wealth too soon.
Having stims not restore health instantly but over the course of 3 turns making me have to take cover when i got hurt, covering behind objects peaking out taking shots.
Weapon drop.
- weapons drop on death.
- weapons drop on a K.O . (unconsious)
- weapons drop on cripple limb/s.
This made fights more diverse, unpredictable and random, critters picking up fallen down weapons.
Cubik tweaked some melee attacks,
- swing attack type == random ammount of additional damage (from 0 to 3) to initial base damage of weapon (for min and max weapons damage)
- thrust attack type == critters armors Stats (damage threshold and resistance) will be divided by 2 (it will be good against armored targets)
i can go on and on with tweaks and alteration they made, all i can say that in the end with everything installed it totally overhauled the feel of fallout 2- it expanded and made the combat richer and deeper giving more freedom as to what type of char you can roleplay.
I truly hope with the final version of the RP now being released we can make a final combat/economy/survival mod to put the final polish on this gem. (though killap and the rest of the crew actually already did this of course but you know what i mean)
i will try to look up if the links or files i received from them still work or i still have em- cause its been so long.
I dont know which of them guys are still active on the forum but this release must draw them back eventually.... hehe
It did it to me as well....
nirran still has a site with some stuff on it.
www.nirran.com/Fallout2Scripts.php
Personally, I imagine that in Fallout, ammunition would be worth much more than firearms. Why? Because you need ammunition to make your shiny gun useful.
While the bullets you find on enemy corpses would be worth a lot, the only things they will purchase in bulk are empty guns.
While the bullets you find on enemy corpses would be worth a lot, the only things they will purchase in bulk are empty guns.
Riel88 said:
We know what you mean.
E.g. the bozar should be a single shot sniper weapon with a satisfying BLAAAAAAM as it was in Magnus's mod (which I used in my last playthrough, completely enjoyed, and pray to all of the blissful gods that he will update for RP 2.2). You know it, I know it, we (mostly) all agree. However, a change like that does go beyond the scope of the RP.
Main feature of YAAM mod is used here (damage formula set in ddraw.ini).Riel88 said:
Interesting ideas for optional features.Riel88 said:
The purpose of this mod is to do exactly this. But I think that some aspects that change gameplay too much (like drop weapons, delayed stimpack effects) will be optional, so everyone can set up this rebalance with only features he desire.Riel88 said:
You mean it had changed attack sound? I can add it as well, now that I know how to add new sounds for weapons.teukros said:
So my current plan is to wait for final RP 2.2, adopt current changes to it and release as soon as possible. Then I'm going to further balance out some stats and experiment with some features.
Yes, optional is always good !
Everybody enjoyes something different.
Ive just been playing fallout 2 for so long i wanted it to be more challenging, more realistic, more gritty and forcing me to make decisions skill and equipment wise.
With double weight, i was choosing more & more for healing items and ammo than high price weapons.
I love it when one has to be more carefull and aware when a battle starts, scanning what equipment the enemy is using, what the terrain is like, where one can take cover for when things go bad & making use of your party.
Josan12 hosted the files for double item weight and slow stimpack regeneration but the links dont seem to work anymore.
You could and i will try to get a hold of him.
Btw.
I also used the following functions in sfall:
bodyparthitmod6=-90
don't forget to 'uncomment' the line (i.e. remove the ";")
This makes eye shots harder (which i think are too easy)
I also like "PlayIdleAnimOnReload=1" which makes the player run their idle animation when reloading (just a cosmetic thing)
I will keep an eye on this thread & try to help you !
Bye
Everybody enjoyes something different.
Ive just been playing fallout 2 for so long i wanted it to be more challenging, more realistic, more gritty and forcing me to make decisions skill and equipment wise.
With double weight, i was choosing more & more for healing items and ammo than high price weapons.
I love it when one has to be more carefull and aware when a battle starts, scanning what equipment the enemy is using, what the terrain is like, where one can take cover for when things go bad & making use of your party.
Josan12 hosted the files for double item weight and slow stimpack regeneration but the links dont seem to work anymore.
You could and i will try to get a hold of him.
Btw.
I also used the following functions in sfall:
bodyparthitmod6=-90
don't forget to 'uncomment' the line (i.e. remove the ";")
This makes eye shots harder (which i think are too easy)
I also like "PlayIdleAnimOnReload=1" which makes the player run their idle animation when reloading (just a cosmetic thing)
I will keep an eye on this thread & try to help you !
Bye
Hey guys.
I really like this thread and have a few suggestions:
a) I once modded the sawn-off shotgun to fire a single shot burst in the same way as a flamer, but reduced the max & min damage a little. I found it really brought the gun back into the game and seemed very realistic. i playtested it for quite some time in my games and found it very balanced.
b) for a) - and your double-barrel shotguns which fire a 2 shot burst (which i approve) the problem is that the game will display the burst auto animation. So, the solution is to set the the gun to fire using 'flamer' burst and then rename the single shot animation to the flamer extension for the rilfle. Sounds complicated i know but it's not (i can send you the renamed files)
c) for thrown weapons the problem is lack of availabilty, rather than balance of the weapons themselves. To make throwing a viable weapon skill i added molotovs throwing knives and some frag grenades to various early shopkeepers inventories and some enemies. I also boosted the damage of those grenades a little. I think it's also possible to set the molotov to do fire damage which is awesome as you get the 'running burining' death animation!
I do like the idea of your throwing skill increasing your thrown weapon damage, however, and if this can be done i would say is much superior to just a blanket increase on the damage of thrown knives, frag grens etc.
d) overall, i think ammunition should be scarce. well-maintained guns will last a very long time, but without ammunition manufacturers they'll quickly become glorified clubs. In my mind, the fallout world should have a pretty severe ammunition shortage (like in mad-max 2) where every bullet is precious due to breakdown in ammo maufacturing. In fact, now i think about it, bullets would make a pretty cool form of money! (in-game i mean - ammo is too heavy in RL)
So, the problem is that if you reduce the value of guns the players can't make so much money selling them, but also can buy them cheaply. As Riel88 has mentioned our solution to this economy inbalance was to double the weight of all items (guns included). We actually now have a better solution thanks to timeslip whereby we can make guns very bulky and acheive them same effect. I think it would be important to reduce ammunition availability from shopkeepers alot (80%?). Of course, the player gets most ammo from dead critters so it would probably be necessary to remove spare ammo from most critters. (except well-equipped critters like BOS or Enclave etc) The overall effect should be that every shot should count and bullets should be treated like gold. It would also inherently make melee better as sometimes the player will just run out of ammo an have to fall back on some sort of melee.
Thoughts?
I really like this thread and have a few suggestions:
a) I once modded the sawn-off shotgun to fire a single shot burst in the same way as a flamer, but reduced the max & min damage a little. I found it really brought the gun back into the game and seemed very realistic. i playtested it for quite some time in my games and found it very balanced.
b) for a) - and your double-barrel shotguns which fire a 2 shot burst (which i approve
) the problem is that the game will display the burst auto animation. So, the solution is to set the the gun to fire using 'flamer' burst and then rename the single shot animation to the flamer extension for the rilfle. Sounds complicated i know but it's not (i can send you the renamed files)c) for thrown weapons the problem is lack of availabilty, rather than balance of the weapons themselves. To make throwing a viable weapon skill i added molotovs throwing knives and some frag grenades to various early shopkeepers inventories and some enemies. I also boosted the damage of those grenades a little. I think it's also possible to set the molotov to do fire damage which is awesome as you get the 'running burining' death animation!
I do like the idea of your throwing skill increasing your thrown weapon damage, however, and if this can be done i would say is much superior to just a blanket increase on the damage of thrown knives, frag grens etc.d) overall, i think ammunition should be scarce. well-maintained guns will last a very long time, but without ammunition manufacturers they'll quickly become glorified clubs. In my mind, the fallout world should have a pretty severe ammunition shortage (like in mad-max 2) where every bullet is precious due to breakdown in ammo maufacturing. In fact, now i think about it, bullets would make a pretty cool form of money! (in-game i mean - ammo is too heavy in RL)
So, the problem is that if you reduce the value of guns the players can't make so much money selling them, but also can buy them cheaply. As Riel88 has mentioned our solution to this economy inbalance was to double the weight of all items (guns included). We actually now have a better solution thanks to timeslip whereby we can make guns very bulky and acheive them same effect. I think it would be important to reduce ammunition availability from shopkeepers alot (80%?). Of course, the player gets most ammo from dead critters so it would probably be necessary to remove spare ammo from most critters. (except well-equipped critters like BOS or Enclave etc) The overall effect should be that every shot should count and bullets should be treated like gold. It would also inherently make melee better as sometimes the player will just run out of ammo an have to fall back on some sort of melee.
Thoughts?
See these posts:Josan12 said:
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=959379#959379
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=959146#959146
I've been thinking on this...
About Bozar. I like the idea of unique ammo type that will not restock in stores and could be found in some areas.. This way the player would count every single shot and this will bring additional satisfaction when using the rifle.
But we should consider this. Ok, so we changed Bozar to do about 100-150 damage with .50 round and the ammo is very rare. But if we want much damage we can just use rocket launcher (I see no reason to make rockets very rare) - it's accurate and deals area damage.
About ammo. I like this idea too. In my mod, ammo amounts are already reduced by making ammo pack sizes smaller. Making ammo non-restockable requires some scripting... (BTW, how frequently does item restocking occures in most merchants?) Reducing ammo in NPC's (like random encounters) has a drawback - firefights will be less intense (enemies will be using melee weapons more often).
In my last playthrough (with reduced pack sizes) I did not felt like "swimming in ammo". Also if we make ammo as scarce as it should logically be (as Josan12 explained), this will make many weapons in game unprofitable (SMG's, assault rifles, miniguns - all these use large bursts and depletes ammo very fast). And I don't want to remove some of the game flavour to persue logic. A game is a game, there will always be conventions...
About thrown weapons. I'll see if I can add them to shopkeepers and random encounters... I don't want to edit maps though.. Do you know a stable mapper (apart from official mapper) wich can edit NPC's and container's inventories?
P.S.: added brand new .50 BMG rounds (new item, new picture, new caliber).
What is better?
About Bozar. I like the idea of unique ammo type that will not restock in stores and could be found in some areas.. This way the player would count every single shot and this will bring additional satisfaction when using the rifle.
But we should consider this. Ok, so we changed Bozar to do about 100-150 damage with .50 round and the ammo is very rare. But if we want much damage we can just use rocket launcher (I see no reason to make rockets very rare) - it's accurate and deals area damage.
About ammo. I like this idea too. In my mod, ammo amounts are already reduced by making ammo pack sizes smaller. Making ammo non-restockable requires some scripting... (BTW, how frequently does item restocking occures in most merchants?) Reducing ammo in NPC's (like random encounters) has a drawback - firefights will be less intense (enemies will be using melee weapons more often).
In my last playthrough (with reduced pack sizes) I did not felt like "swimming in ammo". Also if we make ammo as scarce as it should logically be (as Josan12 explained), this will make many weapons in game unprofitable (SMG's, assault rifles, miniguns - all these use large bursts and depletes ammo very fast). And I don't want to remove some of the game flavour to persue logic. A game is a game, there will always be conventions...
About thrown weapons. I'll see if I can add them to shopkeepers and random encounters... I don't want to edit maps though.. Do you know a stable mapper (apart from official mapper) wich can edit NPC's and container's inventories?
P.S.: added brand new .50 BMG rounds (new item, new picture, new caliber).
What is better?
ziemeck said:
Yeah, I read this already and you and I are obviously on the same page ziemeck! I dig your idea about the guy in algernons cellar. Either those dogs should be really hard to get past or you shuold have to gather, i think, 5-10 flowers for an upgrade.
ziemeck said:
TBH, i don't really want to get into the Bozar argument which has been going on since the dawn of Fallout. It's a very relevant argument however so i'm not demeaning it - i just want to focus on the ammo and leave the guns to Magnus and his excellent F2WR mod. (which i think is superb). I like Phobos's suggestion that it be a .50 cal sniper rifle and that the .50 cal ammo should be incredibly rare or even strictly finite. I think it would also be fun if it also had a full auto mode where you can 'blow your load' in one big awesome blast
(and then probably never fire the damn gun again! 
) No - i think it should always be *possible* to find the ammo - just very difficult. Maybe one shopkeeper has a 2% chance of stocking it or something...
I have written a program in C++ that can store any PROTO files folder into one big "repository" file, and then apply information from that repository into another PROTO file directory. You can specify offsets at which to apply changes from repository into real .PRO files.
This way I can make simple bat installer that will apply only price changes to all items ingame, and this change can be compatible with almost every mod out there...
Also this utility should be able to multiply, divide or assign any numeric value at any offset (in batch mode).
EDIT: uploaded with source code: download
Another update, thanks to Josan12 advice, I have given the double barrels proper "duplet" with single shot animation and new sound.
Does anyone think it is neccesary to change Bozar sound to something unique? (right now it's generic sniper rifle sound)
This way I can make simple bat installer that will apply only price changes to all items ingame, and this change can be compatible with almost every mod out there...
Also this utility should be able to multiply, divide or assign any numeric value at any offset (in batch mode).
EDIT: uploaded with source code: download
Another update, thanks to Josan12 advice, I have given the double barrels proper "duplet" with single shot animation and new sound.
Does anyone think it is neccesary to change Bozar sound to something unique? (right now it's generic sniper rifle sound)
Makenshi
Ahoy, ye salty dogs!
I don't remember if I already posted in this here topic and all, but let me ask this, bro:
Make the damned laser weapons useful, give me a reason (other than their cool 'zap' sound or slightly better range than plasma) to use them. I never understood how energy weapons were created to counter the latest personal defenses (combat armor and then power armor), and yet everything expect leather is resistant laser or reflect them.
One quality of Fallout Tactics was their correction to it (although the damn robots were impervious to anything but energy weapons, which was also annoying, but it not our concern here), you could borrow some numbers from that game, at least as reference.
Make the damned laser weapons useful, give me a reason (other than their cool 'zap' sound or slightly better range than plasma) to use them. I never understood how energy weapons were created to counter the latest personal defenses (combat armor and then power armor), and yet everything expect leather is resistant laser or reflect them.
One quality of Fallout Tactics was their correction to it (although the damn robots were impervious to anything but energy weapons, which was also annoying, but it not our concern here), you could borrow some numbers from that game, at least as reference.
As readme states "- Laser weapons stats (as well as laser damage resistance in armours) preserved from "Weapons Redone" mod"Makenshi said:
From stats:
- higher damage (eg. laser pistol is compareble to 14mm pistol)
- more range
- lower min strength requirements (so it should be a must have weapon class for weakling)
- most early armor type have laser risistance/treshold lower than normal damage. (except metal, tesla and power armours) so you can expect even more power against such enemies
Makenshi
Ahoy, ye salty dogs!
отличный !
What do you guys think of:
new throwing weapon with decent damage.
new throwing weapon with decent damage.
Makenshi
Ahoy, ye salty dogs!
Looks great imo, keep it up
edit: maybe its stats could be better than the initial throwing weapons (knife, spear, etc), so it would serve as a mid game weapon for throwing character playthrough?
edit: maybe its stats could be better than the initial throwing weapons (knife, spear, etc), so it would serve as a mid game weapon for throwing character playthrough?
Izual
Pipe rifle & chopsticks
It has some kind of halo/blur around it, doesn't it?
But yeah, it looks verygood and it's a great idea. I'm jealous :p
But yeah, it looks verygood and it's a great idea. I'm jealous :p
As promised, here is quick version of Economy Rebalance (v0.2a): http://yadi.sk/d/Lyge3uHiF7rwz
- non-economy aspects of mod NOT INCLUDED
- only pricing formula and prices of all items changed
- compatible with RP 2.3
- manual installation, but it is very easy
Enjoy
I already merged main mod with latest RP release. Now working on new sound for Bozar and merchant stock changes. Next version will have proper installer with options to turn on/off (like only economy part, disable critter changes, etc).
edit: fixed prices installer issue (was compiled incorrectly)
- non-economy aspects of mod NOT INCLUDED
- only pricing formula and prices of all items changed
- compatible with RP 2.3
- manual installation, but it is very easy
Enjoy
I already merged main mod with latest RP release. Now working on new sound for Bozar and merchant stock changes. Next version will have proper installer with options to turn on/off (like only economy part, disable critter changes, etc).
edit: fixed prices installer issue (was compiled incorrectly)
Last edited:
Thanks dude! never actually saw this, gona give it a try!