Fallout 2 mod Economy and Combat Rebalance mod

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by phobos2077, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. JimTheDinosaur

    JimTheDinosaur Vault Dweller
    Modder

    736
    Mar 17, 2013
    Hey phobos, I have a trap setting system in the next version of my mod (you can best track for movement in combat through the movecost hookscript), if you want I can send you the scripts.
     
  2. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped
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    596
    Apr 24, 2010
    Thanks, I sent you PM :)

    Daily report:
    - nerfed slot jinxer perk: slots break for month instead of 1 day, high rollers give 2/5 of initial money and there is a luck-based chance to fail (initially you could be unbelievably rich without even raising any skills... silly)
    - nerfed gambling dice: you can win maximum about 1000-5000 caps per table, per week
     
  3. Effektor

    Effektor First time out of the vault

    33
    Jan 13, 2013
    What if Chosen One will be granted not just simple boring spear for every start, but a very special gift from his/her ancestor Vault Dweller depending on maximum tagged "weapon" skill?
    Just to taste what your skill means. :wink:
    It`s must be something left from ancient adventures, isn`t it? Logical enough. :smile:
    Small guns - Pipe Rifle.
    Big guns - no idea, may be new item?
    Energy weapons - Cattle Prod
    Unarmed - Brass Knuckles
    Melee weapons - Sledgehammer?
    Throwing - Molotov Cocktail (maybe 2 or even more, balance needed)

    All weapons without ammo. (Makes sense as all ammo was spended by village hunters.) Mynoc should give you one pack instead of usual Sharpened Spear (in case of Throwing - maybe recipe for molotov?).
    If no "weapon" skill is tagged, then only spear... and from Mynoc maybe one or two repair books? To get hooked on MrFixit. :mrgreen:
     
  4. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped
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    596
    Apr 24, 2010
    I personally don't like it when games give you more starting gear than you need. I always liked how you start "naked" with just a spear, and then slowly build your fortune from nothing, that's inspiring.
    I think starting gear mod would be easy to do with global script, but I'm not interested in it.

    Currently, I'm trying to implement meaningful and stable stealth attack feature. Stealth damage bonus exist in many games, and it's a nice way to make stealth even more useful. Blackjacking will also be cool (if only I could find a way to send character to knockout by script...), I'm a fan of Thief series btw :)
     
  5. Effektor

    Effektor First time out of the vault

    33
    Jan 13, 2013
    Let me explain.
    Maybe optional install? :puppy-dog:
    As for me I could survive without tagged any "weapon" skill, at least until New Reno for now. But I still think it could add some "heritage of Vault Dweller" flavor in game. You see, I suggest almost useless weapons for mid-game (except Rocket Launcher, but this is must be rebalanced imho) but nice (not essential!) for early survival.
    No harm in asking... your mod - your rules. :grin:

    About stealth.
    Maybe damage from back in stealthed state will be x2, for example or maybe enemies will always lose their next turn when backstabbed? Also may be you can implement silencer for some weapons?

    Heh, I even completed one of Thief`s series game long time ago, so... perhaps a little update for he-who-waits-in-shadows? :grin:
     
  6. JimTheDinosaur

    JimTheDinosaur Vault Dweller
    Modder

    736
    Mar 17, 2013
    phobos, could you maybe let me use the artwork you did for this (if you did artwork ofcourse)? Did you also do any other additional ammo types?
     
  7. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped
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    596
    Apr 24, 2010
    Sure, just don't claim you did it. I just painted some parts in red in photoshop :)

    PS: can you answer about gdialog_mod_barter?
     
  8. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped
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    596
    Apr 24, 2010
    So.. a little update. I spent last several days hard working on the traps and stealth systems. It was a tough one for me, I had to write some libraries and scratch my head many times to get both explosion and melee traps to work both in combat and in real time.. It still not perfect and may contain many bugs but I want to share it with someone to play with (it could be disabled), for some feedback.

    So here how it works (basic idea was taken from JimTheDinosaur):
    - you enable sneak mode and go to your inventory;
    - just drop any item that can explode to the ground, if you pass the skill check (INI configurable), your trap will appear as a generic metal plate trap (I plan on making new items for traps, so you will have to craft them first in future versions);
    - if someone not from your party steps on the trap, it will go off (different damage, sound and explosion animation for each trap type: fire, plasma, etc.) doing area damage (there is also spike trap...);
    - if you are not already in combat, people from team that got into your trap will attack you;
    - if someone spot you planting bomb on thier doorstep, they will attack you too (I plan on making this one optional);
    - number of traps in all maps are not limited (I tried to optimize for large amounts of traps);
    - you can uninstall your trap by using Traps skill (the original item will go back to your inventory)

    I have some questions:
    1) do we need craftable traps (don't install grenades directly like now)?
    2) how skill checks on trap installation should work? (currently I calculate minimum skill for each trap type and ground surface type (dirt, metal, etc.), if you have skill you will 100% succeed. I can make "roll vs skill" instead, where you can sometimes fail, and even critically fail by blowing yourself up)
    3) should we give player EXP for successfully installed traps?

    Other things (about stealth) that I spent many hours on:
    - you can knockdown people, if you:
    a) use sneak
    b) have some required amount of skill
    c) are behind target
    d) are using blunt weapon
    e) are hitting the man (only humans supported) in his head
    - you can have bonus critical chance for sneak attacks, requirements:
    a) use sneak
    b) start combat not being seen (for example you can start combat behind the corner then go out and shoot, it will count as sneak attack)
    c) have certain skill (there is a minimum skill amount that start to give you bonus critical chance, and maximum at wich you will get 100% criticals)
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  9. Nevill

    Nevill First time out of the vault

    85
    Mar 14, 2007
    This.

    So it only happens on the first turn? There may be ways to exploit this, given how visibility is handled in the game, but an option is better than the lack of it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  10. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped
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    596
    Apr 24, 2010
    Implemented. Also I changed method of installing traps:
    1) drop item on the ground as you normally would
    2) use traps skill on the ground item to try and arm it (it will do nothing, blow up or turn into floor plate)

    Yes, it should happen only once for each critter. When you attack someone, the game remembers it and you should not be able to repeat it until you re-enter the map (still working on this).
     
  11. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped
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    596
    Apr 24, 2010
    New version: http://yadi.sk/d/wki5EqsCGMbiz

    - installable traps
    - sneak attack and blackjack (*)
    - nerfed slot jinxer perk (*)
    - nerfed gambling dice (*)
    - adjusted weight and size of some items
    - fixed "dancing autofire" death animation occured when using shotgun duplet mode

    (*) - optional features

    About traps. After several do-overs, I left the following system:
    1) craft "Trap Kit" from rope+junk
    2) drop Trap Kit on the ground, it will turn into trap (not yet armed)
    3) use any explosive from inventory on the trap to arm it (skill checks and critical failures is here)
    4) use the armed trap to dismantle it (all components will return to your inventory)

    Tested as much as I could. I will test more when I find some time to play the game and raise my Traps skill a bit.

    Known issues:
    1) If Fog of War is enabled (tested on hi-res patch 4.1.7), when someone is hit by your trap, his hit/death animation will flicker/freeze for a moments. Not game-braking but still annoying.
    2) When someone dies in your spike-trap, he will fall down without proper death sound.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
  12. Effektor

    Effektor First time out of the vault

    33
    Jan 13, 2013
    Nice try :grin:, but caravans are still "easy money for everyone".
    Thanks anyway. :grin:
     
  13. Nevill

    Nevill First time out of the vault

    85
    Mar 14, 2007
    Do we even have enough Junk for this?

    I have not tried it yet, but this implementation sounded better to me:
    It has an advantage of being simplier, and it won't randomly turn items into things if you just drop them on the ground - you need to specifically use skills for that.

    For example, you may be forced to drop all of your things in Modoc due to a script. Will that turn all of the Trap Kits in your posession into unarmed traps? What will happen if you drop more that one is a single tile?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
  14. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped
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    596
    Apr 24, 2010
    I've added junk to several dealers across wasteland.

    Well, I tried many ways to install traps and current one will stay for a while at least... The problem in method above is that you either turn grenades directly into traps (looks silly) or have to craft trap kit for each type of explosive (would be limited to 2-3 types of explosive traps, not so interesting IMO), so I selected dropping trap kit and using armament on them as the best one. The only change I can consider is adding dialog when you Use the un-armed trap or Use Skill on it in which you select what you want to put inside (that's easy to implement), IF play-testing will prove this viable (currently seems there is little interest in traps at all).

    I've found critical bug in crafting (ignore "Poison" option to avoid it), will probably post update soon.

    I've been considering several ideas, feedback would be appreciated:
    - add new .223 assault rifle OR add second upgrade for 5mm AR (rechamber) OR lower .223 mag size to 20 (too many of this ammo)
    - add new pump-action shotgun for early-mid game? (4AP single cost)
    - add new craftable ammo types: plasma rocket, JSP/JHP 14mm bullets (higher damage at cost of lower AP)
    - make all HN Needler cartridges poisonous (not sure if it will really affect balance, only for the flavor)
    - something useful to craft using sharpening schematics? have no clue. Making more advanced knife from regular knife seems to illogical for my taste.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
  15. mobucks

    mobucks literally Orderite

    May 22, 2010
    I know I'm just one guy but reading about settable traps made me hard. Take that FWIW.
     
  16. voodzia

    voodzia It Wandered In From the Wastes

    107
    Jun 27, 2005
    I'm guessing my point of view on Fallout weapons may not be the most popular among players but since you're still working on your mod I'd like to ask if you could make a kind of special version of it? The main thing would be replacing some early guns with those made by Werwolf and included in his Handmade Weapons mod. And if you could add even some more such low-tech, unreliable and not very powerful weapons (handmade) it would be just fantastic.


    BTW, as for your ideas mentioned above - to be honest with you I don't like them (especially the 4AP shotgun and new .223 rifle too) apart from the knife. But maybe changing ammo (and stats too) for hunting rifle would a good idea?
     
  17. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped
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    596
    Apr 24, 2010
    What do you mean? These traps are optional, no one forces you to use them after all. If there will be enough people saying it should be changed somehow, I will consider it. Right now I spent too many hours on this feature alone, re-doing it many times...

    Not sure why do you need to change hunting rifle? I buffed it's stats already, and it is a nice .223 weapon for early game. I've rechambered sniper rifle to 7.62 for exactly the reason to make progression of sniper weapons (scoped hunting -> sniper rifle -> Bozar), now you can be a sniper throughout the game (having to learn big guns for Bozar, however..).

    Now about handmade weapons.. I've been looking through vanilla fallout graphics and stumbled upon this ZipGun. I may add SOME of those weapons (don't like crossbows because lack of animation and not see point in 7.62 sniper rifle as there is one already), maybe add ability to craft them from beginning (not sure from what components though)... But, where will you get ammo for such very early weapons? (you usually easily get Shotgun and Desert Eagle in the Den, so the point of this weapons is only for arroyo-klamath stage, but remember that we have Pipe rifle in klamath).
     
  18. voodzia

    voodzia It Wandered In From the Wastes

    107
    Jun 27, 2005
    As for hunting rifle - IMO it's just too powerful for an early stage gun. In general I think that there are too many guns in Fo2 and they are way too easily accessible (the same goes for ammo and armor). This game is kind of challenging only till you find 10mm pistol in Klamath (that would be first 3 levels or so). And after The Den it becomes very easy - I didn't have to worry about anything (ammo, guns, money) after leaving Den. And at some point I have feeling I'm playing some hard sci-fi game - but definitely not a game set in a post-apocalyptic world where you have to struggle for almost everything (even rotten apples) to survive in the wastelands. And that's why I asked you if you could make a special version of your mod where some guns (like for example: Desert Eagle, Magnum, Shotgun, Hunting rifle) would be replaced with those from Handmade Weapons mod (including ammo). Zip gun or spring gun would be very nice early stage weapons for ranged combat. Crossbows are very nicely done and I'm not sure why you can't use normal gun animations for them?
    Anyway, such a mod would probably need lots of work and that's why I only was curious if it's even possible to change all these things.

    EDIT:
    To give you a big picture of changes in weapons here's progress on guns' accessibility:
    1. early to mid stage (Arroyo - VC) - main combat skill should be unarmed and melee. Guns and ammo very rare and only pipe rifle plus those handmade (excluding sniper rifle of course) and/or crafted. Prices set very high for them - difficult to buy.
    2. mid stage (New Reno and nearby towns) - more powerful pistols, some basic rifles and shotguns start to show up here and there (in short - all those guns that are available in Den in vanilla game).
    3. late mid stage (NCR) - advanced rifles and shotguns, some big guns and very limited amount of energy weapons
    4. final stages (San Francisco) - the most powerful guns available but prices should be set also very high for them

    p.s.
    The same would go for armor of course.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  19. Effektor

    Effektor First time out of the vault

    33
    Jan 13, 2013
    Crossbows could be crafted from Spear and Rope with Knife, ammo for crossbows - plant spikes from plants in Hakunin`s garden or from disassembling Spear with Knife. Zip Gun could be crafted from Pipe Rifle (maybe 3 AP to make Zip Gun more appealing?).

    Also I have one question to you. According to http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Building_a_Better_Miria_Mod "Also keep in mind that in many cases if a party member has a higher skill level than the player-character, the player-character will perform a skill-check at the follower's skill level rather than his or her own (for example, when Vic offers to repair things for you since his repair skill is probably higher than yours when you first pick him up in the Den)."
    So... can I use Vic as a crafter for MrFixit? (Sorry, cannot check it myself for now.) If not, maybe you can implement such behavior?

    By the way, don`t give up traps craft. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  20. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped
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    596
    Apr 24, 2010
    I'm sorry, but this is outside the scope and ideas of my mod (rebalance existing weapons mostly, make weapon selection more interesting, make small additions only to make existing content more usable). Of course what you want is possible. You can easily replace weapons (change icons, descriptions, etc.) using wonderful f2wedit tool. Adding new weapons along with old ones is a bit more tricky. Making weapons more scarce is a hell of a task (that will require redesign of the whole game, every map and encounter). You can also try to merge his mod with mine, if there is only weapons that changed. Both my mod and RP does not change weapons much (replacing, etc., except swapping Mauzer and .223 Pistol), so it should be doable.

    I can argue about having guns makes game easy. At my last play through (when I started this mod) I didn't noticed that. The enemies are still giving me nice ass-kicking once in a while (I'm playing a small-frame smooth-talker with small guns and throwing as primary combat skills). When you get your first 10mm pistol, the enemies are using SMGs and shotguns against you. It's a fair play (damage resistance and weapon damage are equal in both sides). Having all guns more effective than early melee weapons is a nice design, IMHO (makes you feel uncomfortably "tribal" ;-) ). In my mod, I made some melee weapons stronger and throwing weapons much more effective exactly to counter that.

    About too much money and ammo, this is one of the main points of this mod, just read the full description :) I'm trying to make player actually buy ammo instead of swimming in it (with mixed success). Reducing pack sizes more than 2 times is bad, and only other way I see is to make less ammo in all containers on maps. Making less ammo in NPCs may screw the balance, as they will be using melee mostly.

    I like the ideas you are talking about, but such things should be done in new games or TC mods. A lot of design and redoing many stuff, and end result will most likely be as unbalanced as vanilla game. You have to be realistic.


    Crafting obviously inferior ZipGun from more powerful pipe rifle seems strange... 3AP for a gun is out of the question (there certain perks..). As for crossbows, they are good for post-apoc world, but the lack of animation... I'll have to consider it... These alone can make a good alternative to a traditional 10mm pistol stage. But there is already a LOT of weapons in the game.. And having certain skill in this game does not mean this skill should be usable from very start to the end (look at big guns and energy weapons, those are completely useless in first part of the game), it's just the way Fallout is made :)

    No, there is no such option in Mr. Fixit. It can be done. Would certainly make crafting more appealing to players who don't want to invest much in Repair, Traps or First aid... Would it not make crafting too overpowered?

    As for traps.. I'm thinking of second type of trap kit for melee traps, for early game (I think it will not require arming with item, just drop it and use Traps skill; armament made sense for explosives but don't fit here). If someone could help with some icons and/or craft rule ideas, that will definitely help. But please, keep ideas simple.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014